Author Topic: Questions and clarifications  (Read 15300 times)

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Offline METL

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Questions and clarifications
« on: February 01, 2011, 09:46:54 AM »


I know, I know...   I could look some of this stuff up myself...    but I want to hear what people have to say...


First real quick, some stuff about myself:     LIve in lansing.   Shot guns all my life.  Own 2 hand guns.  No criminal history/background.   Interested in open carry as well as CPL.  Have 2 kids.  SIngle dad with 50% custody. 

Also, somewhat unrelated, but my home was broken into recently.  Thank God they didn't find my guns, but I suspect that it was kids by what they took.   They DID however, take a realistic looking airsoft BB pistol that I had.  One of my biggest fears is night time intruders. 

I have also been assaulted by 4 men at my former work with a tire iron.  Now that sounds lots worse than it was, and I"m not even sure I would have wanted to be carrying at that time....   but now that I have small children to protect, self defense is even more important to me.


Why open carry instead of CPL?  Why do people insist on openly carrying when they can most likely get a CPL.  Is there some reason that they are afraid to get their CPL or that they have been denied or will be denied?   That worries me a bit.  Then again, maybe people are in my situation... as follows...


What is involved in getting CPL?   Class, I know... $125ish...    permit fee $125ish..      Finger printing?   Background check I'm sure...     I don't understand why you have to be treated like a criminal to beable to defend yourself and why you have to drop 2-300 bucks on it.  Frankly, I can't afford it on my VERY limited budget.  After child support, house payment, credit card payment, etc...      now don't get me wrong.. I'm not whining about my situation....   I'm where I am because of choices I made...   but it is what it is.  I can't afford to drop that kind of money to carry.



I'm pretty worried about what the ex will think too if I start open carrying...   as well as run in's with police should I do so and how all of this may effect my children.




Thanks so much for reading this and hopefully answering some of my questions  I hope to beable to learn some things from this forum and possibly start open carrying (though not in a vehicle!) and maybe save for my CPL...   if I decide to get finger printed and run that gamit....

Offline METL

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Re: Questions and clarifications
« Reply #1 on: February 01, 2011, 10:05:05 AM »
Additionally,


Is it possible to open carry in conjuction with CPL?    If I have my CPL, can I cherry pick the benefits (ie carrying in a vehicle) as well as cherry pick from open carry (ie discourage criminals by SHOWING I can defend myself)?

Offline northofnowhere

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Re: Questions and clarifications
« Reply #2 on: February 01, 2011, 10:35:13 AM »
Why open carry instead of CPL?  Why do people insist on openly carrying when they can most likely get a CPL.  Is there some reason that they are afraid to get their CPL or that they have been denied or will be denied?   That worries me a bit.  Then again, maybe people are in my situation... as follows...
I open carry to promote the carry of firearms.  I believe hiding your firearm consistently is teaching more and more generations that guns are evil and belong hidden.  They are not evil, they belong with me, just in case I ever need it.  I open carry to promote carry, to promote the issue in a positive light, and to promote the right of self defense.
What is involved in getting CPL?   Class, I know... $125ish...    permit fee $125ish..      Finger printing?   Background check I'm sure...     I don't understand why you have to be treated like a criminal to beable to defend yourself and why you have to drop 2-300 bucks on it.  Frankly, I can't afford it on my VERY limited budget.  After child support, house payment, credit card payment, etc...      now don't get me wrong.. I'm not whining about my situation....   I'm where I am because of choices I made...   but it is what it is.  I can't afford to drop that kind of money to carry.
$125-$150 for a class plus however many rounds of ammo the instructor requires you to bring.  I think mine was 30, but went through 100 or so as we had an hour of range time after the class to ourselves.
I'm pretty worried about what the ex will think too if I start open carrying...   as well as run in's with police should I do so and how all of this may effect my children.
Runs ins with the police do happen, but they are not the normal happening.  I didn't carry openly with my baby for her first year with that same thought.  I now do carry with her around and nothing has ever gone wrong, that will be a personal decision for you and you alone, as will what the ex thinks.  If you carrying openly regularly is going to push her to push custody issues, then perhaps you should make a different choice then some of us.

Regarding your CPL question.  An easy way to understand it is a CPL enhances your ability to open carry.  You lose no rights to carry or open carry by obtaining and possessing a CPL.  In addition, if you are open carrying and get in a vehicle, you are still legal.  Other examples are that CPL holders are exempt from all pistol free zones, so you may open carry legally in places that sell alcohol, schools, churches, etc.  You still may not conceal in some places though.

You mentioned discouraging criminals by showing your concealed firearm, as I understood the question.  If you are concealing legally and your firearm becomes accidentally exposed, you have broken no law, as it is legal to open carry.  If you are carrying concealed and get in a verbal altercation, walk away or get the confrontation to end peacefully.  Displaying your gun while in a confrontation to me would be a threat, as a matter of fact a death threat in my eyes.  If you are open carrying that is one thing, but to threaten to use a firearm is another.  Your weapon should remain wherever it is until it is time to draw and fire, it is not something used to threaten with.  My personal opinions based on my interpretation of the law.

Good luck to you in your decisions.

-jason r. aka northofnowhere
Jason E. Reese aka northofnowher

Offline METL

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Re: Questions and clarifications
« Reply #3 on: February 01, 2011, 01:20:50 PM »
Thanks Jason...  I"ve found some other sections of the forum, so I have some great reasons for open carry....   such as initially discouraging possible offenders from the sight of your weapon...  not brandishing of course, as I know that is a huge no no...      you slightly misunderstood my question.   I just wanted to make sure that CPL didn't prevent open carry...   



ARe you sure that you can open carry in a vehicle?   It was my understanding that if you were in a vehicle that the gun must be boxed and unaccessible by the driver.

Offline northofnowhere

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Re: Questions and clarifications
« Reply #4 on: February 01, 2011, 02:09:24 PM »
When you are in your vehicle your firearm is legally concealed, no matter how it is on your body.  Therefore, if you have a CPL, you are perfectly fine with it exposed on your hip.  If you do not have a CPL, you are required to "transport" it in a vehicle, which it appears you understand, so I won't dig out the legalese crap on that topic.  If you have a CPL, to reiterate, tehre is no need to move to a "transport" mode with your firearm.
Jason E. Reese aka northofnowher

Offline Christian Patriot

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Re: Questions and clarifications
« Reply #5 on: February 01, 2011, 11:54:24 PM »
Hello... I took my CPL class there in Lansing for only $80. They supply everything you need including the weapon and ammunition (all included in the $80) and all safety equipment. Here is the link to their web page http://www.michiganccwclass.com/ClassesLansing.html My best to you and yours.
If you act like a horses bodonka donk, you should be treated as such, so, be of good character!

Offline Big Gay Al

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Re: Questions and clarifications
« Reply #6 on: February 02, 2011, 02:09:17 AM »
Some people don't like having their fingerprints taken.  Not me, but some people, seriously.  Oh, and application for for the CPL is $105.00, as long as you get your prints taken at the county sheriff's office.  If you go to local PD, I believe they can charge an additional fee, up to $15.00 more. 

Open carry is generally more comfortable than concealed.  For concealed you have to dress to cover the pistol.  Concealed is harder in the warmer months than in the colder ones.  IF you go shopping, you might find a course under $100.00.  But I can't guarantee it will be any good. 

When I took my training, it was at the Jackson County Sportsman's Club, in Jackson.  They gave me a discount, as part of their fee was yearly membership fee for their club, and since I lived way outside of Jackson, they agreed it was silly for me to join.  I don't know if they still offer CPL training, but you could check them out if you're interested.

If you belong to a gun club, I'd say check and see if they offer any CPL classes.  More than a few usually do.
Big Gay Al
Coordinator, Michigan Pink Pistols

Offline METL

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Re: Questions and clarifications
« Reply #7 on: February 02, 2011, 12:23:07 PM »
Thanks for the responses everyone...   so if I don't have CPL, I have to unload and box my piece.  Got it.

I am really not THAT worried about getting fingerprinted...  It is just the principle of the thing...  why do you have to be treated like a criminal to defend yourself.  To me it's just a big brother type thing.   I hate to have my DL scanned at stores when I'm buying booze...   I would never submit to a DNA test...   I just don't like the po-po having my finger prints for any reason.  Call me paranoid.

I don't even see the correlation to be honest...  what part of them having your finger prints is going to prevent you from comitting a crime?   Do they want to see if you've committed past crimes?  Finger prints are apparently pretty hard to get from a crime scene anyways unless the criminal is a moron.

Offline JSteinmetz

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Re: Questions and clarifications
« Reply #8 on: February 02, 2011, 02:29:57 PM »
Actually, fingerprints are extremely _easy_ to get from a crime scene.  The biggest problem the police usually have is sorting through the massive number of prints they usually find.

The idea of printing is to see if something flags when they run you through their system.  It's purely part of the background check.

(I do agree with not wanting to provide more than you have to, but see the usefulness of printing.)
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Offline Big Gay Al

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Re: Questions and clarifications
« Reply #9 on: February 02, 2011, 02:48:23 PM »
Thanks for the responses everyone...   so if I don't have CPL, I have to unload and box my piece.  Got it.

I am really not THAT worried about getting fingerprinted...  It is just the principle of the thing...  why do you have to be treated like a criminal to defend yourself.  To me it's just a big brother type thing.   I hate to have my DL scanned at stores when I'm buying booze...   I would never submit to a DNA test...   I just don't like the po-po having my finger prints for any reason.  Call me paranoid.

I don't even see the correlation to be honest...  what part of them having your finger prints is going to prevent you from comitting a crime?   Do they want to see if you've committed past crimes?  Finger prints are apparently pretty hard to get from a crime scene anyways unless the criminal is a moron.
I simply know some people who've never had their fingerprints taken by the police, and for whatever reason, they don't want to give it, just so they can carry concealed.  There doesn't have to be any correlation, it's simply their irrational fear of "big brother."

Myself, I don't give a crap, I was first fingerprinted at 18, when I joined the Army.  Then, when I started working as a Security officer in Illinois, I was fingerprinted then too.  In fact, for several jobs I've had, if there was any sort of clearance needed, I was fingerprinted.

Myself, I don't see the big deal, but like said, I've met some who've never had their prints taken, and don't want to start.  Everyone has their own reasons.
Big Gay Al
Coordinator, Michigan Pink Pistols

Offline METL

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Re: Questions and clarifications
« Reply #10 on: February 02, 2011, 09:49:44 PM »
Actually, fingerprints are extremely _easy_ to get from a crime scene.  The biggest problem the police usually have is sorting through the massive number of prints they usually find.

The idea of printing is to see if something flags when they run you through their system.  It's purely part of the background check.

(I do agree with not wanting to provide more than you have to, but see the usefulness of printing.)


The reason I say that is because the cops that came to "investigate" the break in at my house in november said that they were hard to get.  They said they could not get them from leather, wood, some plastics, walls... basically they said they were not easy to get off anything except very smooth surfaces...  ie glass, mirror, CD, smooth plastic, smooth metal, etc...      Basically all the finger printing process did in my house was make a HUGE mess of my light tan carpet and my white bathroom floor as well as other things...   >:-(


But yeah, Big Gay Al...  it's cause I've never been "in the system" and I don't want to be....    you just never know when something could be used against you...    mabye you were at a place just before a crime took place and your prints were there..   you had nothing to do with anything, but you'd certainly have some 'splainin to to lucy!!!