Author Topic: My first stop  (Read 4717 times)

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Offline ocdetroit

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My first stop
« on: April 16, 2010, 11:51:03 PM »
I open carry in detroit just about everyother day i walk to a coney. Its about two miles from my home. Today some called the poilce and said a man was walking down the street with a gun. This is what the police told me, when a cop car pulled up on me with two leo's and said don't touch that gun and get up against the wall. Oh yea they did have their guns drawn. One cop came up to me and asked what i was doing. I said just taking a walk open carry. Then asked me if i had anything else they should know about on me i said no. By then another cop car pulled up. While my back was facing the wall the one cop took my DL out and called it in, without asking me first. The Other cop took my glock 19 fully loaded and one in. This was the first time i got stopped and it turned out after all the checking for warrents. That two cops heard of OC and one was a life member of NRA. I they asked the same thing do you have a CPl in said no. And So on. They were kind and on cop said he missed his glock and one cop said my gun was clean. They said also i should wear my full hoster insted of the one i had tunked in my pants with my shirt tucked in. They gave me my gun back and the one bullet they took out and said hope if we need your help on day hope you will be there have a safe day. I said the same to them. Oh I did tell them i should have my CPl in about 4 weeks. GREAT FIRST TIME.
Open carry in Detroit
With both of them.

Offline autosurgeon

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Re: My first stop
« Reply #1 on: April 16, 2010, 11:59:47 PM »
You are very lucky! You should NOT and I emphasize this NOT think that carrying tucked with an IWB is OC. You came very close to a Felony charge of CCW.

Without a CPL do NOT carry with an IWB period. Get a proper retention Holster even a Fobus would be better than a CCW charge.

Note I am not saying this to beat you up but to hopefully impress on you and any other folks watching that this was a close call.

If you had been carrying properly I would be more concerned with the unlawful detention aspects of this however you set yourself up for them by carrying IWB tucked.

So lets learn from this and carry on!!  8)
Anything I post may be my opinion and not the law... you are responsible to do your own verification.

Blackstone (1753-1765) maintains that "the law holds that it is better that ten guilty persons escape than that one innocent suffer."

Offline ocdetroit

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Re: My first stop
« Reply #2 on: April 17, 2010, 12:17:47 AM »
The leo said it would look better like that, he called it part open carry no such thing i understand what you are saying but my gun was not concealed if it was like i told the cop the how did the driver by see to call them and how did the see it when they said do not touch the gun. There are pictures on open carry 101 that show you both ways the see the gun and they see the metal belt clip. Again the be safe (retention wise) i will be carrying fully. thanks again. now since we covered that can u say a little about what i felt was wrong on ditention.
Open carry in Detroit
With both of them.

Offline autosurgeon

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Re: My first stop
« Reply #3 on: April 17, 2010, 08:35:30 AM »
What is this OC 101 you speak of?

In MI we have had a person get jammed up over OC iWB as some police and prosecutors feel it is CC that way.

"I open carry in detroit just about everyother day i walk to a coney. Its about two miles from my home. Today some called the poilce and said a man was walking down the street with a gun. This is what the police told me, when a cop car pulled up on me with two leo's and said don't touch that gun and get up against the wall. Oh yea they did have their guns drawn. One cop came up to me and asked what i was doing. I said just taking a walk open carry. Then asked me if i had anything else they should know about on me i said no. By then another cop car pulled up. While my back was facing the wall the one cop took my DL out and called it in, without asking me first. The Other cop took my glock 19 fully loaded and one in. This was the first time i got stopped and it turned out after all the checking for warrents. That two cops heard of OC and one was a life member of NRA. I they asked the same thing do you have a CPl in said no. And So on. They were kind and on cop said he missed his glock and one cop said my gun was clean. They said also i should wear my full hoster insted of the one i had tunked in my pants with my shirt tucked in. They gave me my gun back and the one bullet they took out and said hope if we need your help on day hope you will be there have a safe day. I said the same to them. Oh I did tell them i should have my CPl in about 4 weeks. GREAT FIRST TIME."


NOTE the areas I highlighted.

1. What reason did they have to violate your 4th amendment rights? If you had been using an OWB holster then I would say what Reasonable articulable suspicion did they have? As without some other reason then the gun (if you were in a place you could legally have the gun) they would have to have suspicion that a crime had been committed or was about to be committed to legally do what they did.

2. Second they took your gun and ran the serial number. The same 4th amendment protections were violated as when they ran your drivers license.

3. Notice how they told you to carry OWB? You got lucky and got understanding gun loving cops. They decided not to burn you BC they are gun owners themselves... if they had not been and ESP in Detroit you would be in jail right now or just getting out... and you would never see your Glock again.

Finally please folks if you are going to carry OC in MI USE AN OWB HOLSTER!!!! it can save you so much trouble.

Please note if you did have a CPL while what you were doing would not have been a grey area if you had chosen to OC like that in a PFZ under the authority of your CPL you could have been jammed up in the same way.

Please read over the OC information some more and ask any questions that come to mind as we want you to be safe and to stay out of jail!!
Anything I post may be my opinion and not the law... you are responsible to do your own verification.

Blackstone (1753-1765) maintains that "the law holds that it is better that ten guilty persons escape than that one innocent suffer."

Offline EM87

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Re: My first stop
« Reply #4 on: April 17, 2010, 10:50:24 AM »
The police officers' conduct was absolutely ridiculous.  Your rights were violated on more than one level and I would be PISSED.  BUT... since you were carrying IWB with no CPL, I consider it lucky that you got off so easily.  Like Autosurgeon said, it's a gray area of OC in Michigan.  Some officers would arrest you for CCW, which would make your life no fun at all.  Until you get a CPL I recommend that you carry fully exposed.  I know it doesn't make much sense (How did you know he had a gun officer?  I saw it.) but legally it's a gray area.
"You'll be walking along.. OC.. and you'll feel GREAT. You'll feel FREEEEE like 1776 kind of Free." -cscitney87 (from opencarry.org)

Offline jeffsayers

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Re: My first stop
« Reply #5 on: April 22, 2010, 11:16:44 AM »
I agree you were very lucky. Especially in Wayne County. This does go to show our efforts are paying off and supports the leniancy officers are given in interpreting the "totality of the situation".

Again, a strong caution to all that cannot be repeated enough, prosecutors can and may charge this action as a felony. Unless you are financially and emotional prepared to take on that battle, DO NOT OC WITH IWB!

However, if you are financially and emotionaly prepared for the battle, your OC buddies will owe you eternal gratitude for setting case-law precedent if you are successful! However, if you lose the fight, we also reserve the right to say "we told you so"!  :)
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Offline ocdetroit

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Re: My Second stop
« Reply #6 on: April 27, 2010, 11:21:25 PM »
Thanks guys since my first OC in Detroit Southwest side, i have been ocing everyday. I did like you said and got a black hawk serpra. I love it my cpl should be in the mail by friday april 30th 2010. Yes i was stopped today just before i went into the gas station. The leo's pulled up and called me on the bull horn i walked over to the cop car and the leo said what is that? I replied Open Carry. He said you are just walking around like. I said yes its a law in michigan. Again he said with a gun like that. I said yes. At that time the other leo on the drivers side asked if i had a cpl, i told him no. Then the other leo asked for my ID i told them i do not need a cpl or id to open carry. Buuuut i want to cooperate i gave him my id he called his super and i over heard his super read of the michigan open law to him and his partner. You guys would not believe what the leo said to his super. He said what? Why did i become a police officer for. I was shocked dumbfounded by that. Anyway he asked me if i was a lawyer, i told him no but I have fellow open carriers i talk to and read about our laws in Michigan so i gave them some info to keep and read on oc in Michigan (Detroit). The never got out of the car like my first oc stop. And said ok you can go. Thanks guys i'm getting better and loving it. CARRY ON.
Open carry in Detroit
With both of them.

Offline EM87

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Re: My first stop
« Reply #7 on: April 28, 2010, 10:39:07 AM »
Not to point out the negative before the positive, but I want to make sure you don't get in trouble.... Does the gas station you were going to sell alcohol?  Actually, don't answer that on a public forum if it's a "yes" because you would be admitting to breaking the law.  Without a CPL it is unlawful to carry anywhere that sells alcohol.  Make sure you know EVERYTHING in MCL 750.234d!

Other than that, sounds like a pretty smooth encounter.
"You'll be walking along.. OC.. and you'll feel GREAT. You'll feel FREEEEE like 1776 kind of Free." -cscitney87 (from opencarry.org)

Offline autosurgeon

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Re: My first stop
« Reply #8 on: April 28, 2010, 11:05:46 AM »
And it is also good to understand that the parking lot of a liqueur licensed location  is also a no go unless you have a CPL.
Anything I post may be my opinion and not the law... you are responsible to do your own verification.

Blackstone (1753-1765) maintains that "the law holds that it is better that ten guilty persons escape than that one innocent suffer."

Offline ocdetroit

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Re: My first stop
« Reply #9 on: April 28, 2010, 05:42:11 PM »
Yes not problem with that i did read just about if not when and where it open carry. oc'ed today and tonight al week. passed out paperwork on open carry to about four people today. Carry on guys.
Open carry in Detroit
With both of them.

Offline FatboyCykes

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Re: My first stop
« Reply #10 on: April 28, 2010, 08:12:56 PM »
Yes not problem with that i did read just about if not when and where it open carry. oc'ed today and tonight al week. passed out paperwork on open carry to about four people today. Carry on guys.

Lol, I haven't been approached about my OC in quite awhile actually.  Granted, I'm naturally very anti-social, but whilst OC, I usually go out of my way to be a bit more...friendly to strangers.  I always say please, thank you, hold doors, all that jazz, just not much for small talk at all.  Maybe it shows, because it's probably been over two or three months of almost daily public OC.