Author Topic: Temporary Restraining Order-CADL v. Michigan Open Carry, Inc.  (Read 46662 times)

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Offline CV67PAT

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Re: Temporary Restraining Order-CADL v. Michigan Open Carry, Inc.
« Reply #20 on: February 18, 2011, 11:45:43 AM »
"The restraining order was granted the same day an 18-year-old Lansing man attended a CADL meeting at the downtown Lansing location with a gun. Lansing police were called to the scene and determined the gun was an airsoft gun, which is like a BB gun, Lt. Noel Garcia said. The man was asked to leave and left without incident, Garcia said."   This was posted on Lansing State Journal dot com today 
http://www.lansingstatejournal.com/article/20110218/NEWS01/302180002/Capital-Area-District-Library-gets-restraining-order-on-gun-carriers?odyssey=tab%7Cmostpopular%7Ctext%7CFRONTPAGE[/URL
An AIRSOFT GUN!,  Anybody know if this is True or not?

AN AIRSOFT GUN??? IF THIS IS NOT BEING AN ATTENTION WHORE THAT NOTHING IS. THERE IT IS THE PROOF THAT THIS LITTLE POS HAD NOTHING IN MIND BUT TO KEEP POKING THE BEE'S NEST. AND IN DOING SO GOT MANY A GOOD MAN TO FALL FOR HIS FOLLY. MOC COULD HAVE BEEN SPENDING MONEY ON LEGAL FEES GETTING CADL BROUGHT INTO COMPLIANCE WITH STATE LAW INSTEAD OF DEFENDING ITSELF AGAINST A TRO THAT WAS IMPOSED BECAUSE SOME LITTLE FREAKING BOY WANTED TO PLAY WITH HIS TOY GUNS IN THE LIBRARY.

I HAD BEEN WONDERING HOW IN THE WORLD HE WAS IN POSSESSION OF A PISTOL, SINCE HE HAD BEEN WHINING INCESSANTLY ABOUT HOW THE LANSING PD WAS NOT GIVING HIM A PERMIT TO PURCHASE. HERE'S THE REASON WHY HE IS NOT GETTING ONE... HE IS A MENACE TO SOCIETY. HE IS A SCOFFLAW. HE HAS ADMITTED OPENLY THAT HE IS A FUGITIVE FROM JUSTICE IN A SOUTHERN STATE.

IS THIS THE SAME AIRSOFT GUN THAT HE WAS BLATANTLY DISPLAYING AT HE MCDONALDS AFTER THE PONDEROSA INCIDENT?

AND WHO WAS IT THAT COORDINATED THAT DEBACLE??? HMMMM

AT LEAST THE CURRENT LEADERS OF MOC AREN'T TURNING TAIL AND RUNNING LIKE THE ONES THAT DID AFTER THAT MESS.

THANK YOU SPRINKLERGUY, SCOT623, RANDY K, ET AL FOR YOUR UNWAIVERING LEADERSHIP!!!

QUITTERS DON'T WIN AND WINNERS DON'T QUIT!!!

CAPS LOCK off




edit for spelling
« Last Edit: February 18, 2011, 01:39:38 PM by CV67PAT »
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Offline METL

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Re: Temporary Restraining Order-CADL v. Michigan Open Carry, Inc.
« Reply #21 on: February 18, 2011, 11:46:47 AM »
I have no law background what so ever, but this sounds pretty dangerous for setting a precedence.....  Next thing you know all sorts of public buildings will be off limits.... parks.... all sorts of stuff.

Offline METL

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Re: Temporary Restraining Order-CADL v. Michigan Open Carry, Inc.
« Reply #22 on: February 18, 2011, 11:48:21 AM »
I wonder if that's the airsoft gun stolen from my house in a recent burglery?     >:(     What did it look like?  lol

Offline DetroitBiker

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Re: Temporary Restraining Order-CADL v. Michigan Open Carry, Inc.
« Reply #23 on: February 18, 2011, 01:07:33 PM »
I wonder if that's the airsoft gun stolen from my house in a recent burglery?     >:(     What did it look like?  lol

Apparently it looked like a Highpoint 9   

Offline CV67PAT

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Re: Temporary Restraining Order-CADL v. Michigan Open Carry, Inc.
« Reply #24 on: February 18, 2011, 01:23:49 PM »
What did the one he was supplied with, at the Ponderosa Incident by an anonymous MOC leader, look like?

It seems that he was trying to "impress" the reporter by telling him it was Highpoint 9mm pistol. Apparently the Lansing PD was not so easily "impressed".
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Offline DetroitBiker

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Re: Temporary Restraining Order-CADL v. Michigan Open Carry, Inc.
« Reply #25 on: February 18, 2011, 01:43:04 PM »
What did the one he was supplied with, at the Ponderosa Incident by an anonymous MOC leader, look like?(It looked Silly,Thats what it looked like) ;D

It seems that he was trying to "impress" the reporter by telling him it was Highpoint 9mm pistol. Apparently the Lansing PD was not so easily "impressed". (If he wanted to impress him,he should of said it was a Colt Delta Elite 10mm or someting like that.) he would have gained more street Cred. ::)

Offline METL

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Re: Temporary Restraining Order-CADL v. Michigan Open Carry, Inc.
« Reply #26 on: February 18, 2011, 02:10:35 PM »

Apparently it looked like a Highpoint 9   

Aww shoot..  mine was a beretta 9... 2 tone.      ;D




What did the one he was supplied with, at the Ponderosa Incident by an anonymous MOC leader, look like?(It looked Silly,Thats what it looked like) ;D

It seems that he was trying to "impress" the reporter by telling him it was Highpoint 9mm pistol. Apparently the Lansing PD was not so easily "impressed". (If he wanted to impress him,he should of said it was a Colt Delta Elite 10mm or someting like that.) he would have gained more street Cred. ::)




Tacti-cool!

Offline CV67PAT

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Re: Temporary Restraining Order-CADL v. Michigan Open Carry, Inc.
« Reply #27 on: February 18, 2011, 02:12:32 PM »
What did the one he was supplied with, at the Ponderosa Incident by an anonymous MOC leader, look like?(It looked Silly,Thats what it looked like) ;D

It seems that he was trying to "impress" the reporter by telling him it was Highpoint 9mm pistol. Apparently the Lansing PD was not so easily "impressed". (If he wanted to impress him,he should of said it was a Colt Delta Elite 10mm or someting like that.) he would have gained more street Cred. ::)


Does this appear to be an airsoft?



This was an airsoft.

« Last Edit: February 18, 2011, 03:06:21 PM by CV67PAT »
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Offline CV67PAT

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Re: Temporary Restraining Order-CADL v. Michigan Open Carry, Inc.
« Reply #28 on: February 18, 2011, 02:14:29 PM »
Was this the original shotgun used?



« Last Edit: February 18, 2011, 03:07:35 PM by CV67PAT »
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Offline CV67PAT

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Re: Temporary Restraining Order-CADL v. Michigan Open Carry, Inc.
« Reply #29 on: February 18, 2011, 02:33:27 PM »

Now I wonder if it was an airsoft shotgun that he had in the library in the first place.



I am going to propose that the name of the organization be changed to:

Michigan Airsoft Open Carry.

Why just limit the organization to promoting and defending the lawful carry of real guns?

The by-laws should be changed to include replicas of guns, airsoft guns, bb guns, and sticks shaped like guns.
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Offline DetroitBiker

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Re: Temporary Restraining Order-CADL v. Michigan Open Carry, Inc.
« Reply #30 on: February 18, 2011, 02:36:15 PM »
[[/quote]
Now seriously, does this look like someone that would even know what a Colt Delta Elite 10mm even is? Never mind carrying one.
[/quote]

Well now that you mention it, He looks like a very sophisticated guy, I bet he has great taste in firearms (edited from original version per Mod) 
« Last Edit: February 18, 2011, 03:18:24 PM by DetroitBiker »

Offline CV67PAT

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Re: Temporary Restraining Order-CADL v. Michigan Open Carry, Inc.
« Reply #31 on: February 18, 2011, 02:59:05 PM »
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Offline autosurgeon

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Re: Temporary Restraining Order-CADL v. Michigan Open Carry, Inc.
« Reply #32 on: February 18, 2011, 03:01:27 PM »
OK guys I am going to say this once and only once. NO more personal attacks on anyone.

I would also request that you each edit your posts so I don't have to.

Thank You
Anything I post may be my opinion and not the law... you are responsible to do your own verification.

Blackstone (1753-1765) maintains that "the law holds that it is better that ten guilty persons escape than that one innocent suffer."

Offline CV67PAT

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Re: Temporary Restraining Order-CADL v. Michigan Open Carry, Inc.
« Reply #33 on: February 18, 2011, 03:09:51 PM »
OK guys I am going to say this once and only once. NO more personal attacks on anyone.

I would also request that you each edit your posts so I don't have to.

Thank You

Personal references deleted, per your request.

Detroitbiker started it though. :P
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Offline DetroitBiker

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Re: Temporary Restraining Order-CADL v. Michigan Open Carry, Inc.
« Reply #34 on: February 18, 2011, 03:14:23 PM »

Detroitbiker started it though. :P

Did not, You... You... Doo doo head    :'(

Offline tech411

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Offline kubel

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Re: Temporary Restraining Order-CADL v. Michigan Open Carry, Inc.
« Reply #36 on: February 18, 2011, 05:03:39 PM »
This won't be as clear and easy as the Ferndale ruling. This case will boil down to whether or not CADL's board is a local unit of government, and it's something they have a chance of winning.

If it's not, what would prevent any local unit of government from just establishing a separate 'authority' to make all its laws under? If we win this, it would be a major victory for liberty.

Offline TheQ

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Temporary Restraining Order-CADL v. Michigan Open Carry, Inc.
« Reply #37 on: February 18, 2011, 05:15:21 PM »

If it's not, what would prevent any local unit of government from just establishing a separate 'authority' to make all its laws under? If we win this, it would be a major victory for liberty.

+1 for LIBERTY, my second love.
I Am Not A Lawyer (nor a gunsmith).

Offline kubel

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Re: Temporary Restraining Order-CADL v. Michigan Open Carry, Inc.
« Reply #38 on: February 18, 2011, 07:10:05 PM »
CADL seems to have removed all recent press releases regarding open carry incidents. Does someone have these saved? I happen to remember one of them where they admitted they were a local unit of government.

EDIT: Found it. Looks like they took the press release down. But the text of the release has been preserved here:
http://forum.opencarry.org/forums/showthread.php?85689-MOC-Members-hassled-in-Capitol-Area-District-Library&p=1464976&viewfull=1#post1464976

Quote
LIBRARY REACTS TO GUN INCIDENTS: ENFORCEMENT OF LIBRARY GUN BAN IS FOR SAFETY OF ALL PATRONS
Since December 11, 2010, the Downtown Lansing location of the Capital Area District Library has been the site of regular visits by openly armed members of the group Michigan Open Carry (MOC). The MOC members have attempted to openly carry rifles and handguns in CADL’s Downtown Lansing library. “Carrying weapons is in direct violation of CADL’s Code of Conduct and is also causing a great deal of alarm and panic among staff and patrons” according to Lance Werner the Director of CADL. Most recently, a staff member was so terrified that she was unable to work and had to be removed from her shift at a public service desk.
CADL’s Code of Conduct states “All weapons are banned from Library premises to the fullest extent permitted by law”. Because the Capital Area District Library is an autonomous municipal entity under Michigan law, with policy making authority, the Board of Trustees has the ability to set policy that is legally enforceable. All public libraries have some type of Code of Conduct to ensure appropriate behavior and a safe environment for all visitors, adults and children. “CADL’s weapon’s policy will continue to be enforced unless the Board is otherwise instructed by a court of law” Werner said.
CADL contracts with Joseph A. Young & Associates to provide security services at our Downtown Lansing and South Lansing locations. In each instance where an openly armed member of MOC has visited the Downtown location, a security guard has asked the person to leave because carrying weapons in the library violates CADL’s Code of Conduct. Initially, these MOC visitors complied, but recently have refused to leave stating that they have the right to open carry in CADL locations. According to Werner, “At first, the Lansing Police Department was willing to help enforce CADL’s Code of Conduct with respect to the open carrying of firearms. Unfortunately, LPD stopped responding to CADL’s calls for assistance”.
As a result, CADL has had to solely rely on the expertise and willingness of security personnel from Joseph A. Young to manage conflicts arising from MOC armed visits. As a preventive measure, security guards are being placed with open carry visitors so as to avoid potential conflict with some of CADL’s patrons. One of the larger concerns is that patrons could misread a situation and attempt to disarm a gun carrying MOC visitor.
“It is very important to me that the safety of our customers and staff comes first” Werner said. “Sadly, the repeated attempts to violate CADL’s Code of Conduct by MOC members carrying weapons in to the library is making our goal of ‘safety first’ more costly for CADL” he added.
The Capital Area District Library system serves all of Ingham County with the exception of East Lansing. For more information, visit cadl.org.

EDIT: I was able to retrieve and save the original press release complete with their letter head.
« Last Edit: February 18, 2011, 07:42:17 PM by kubel »

Re: Temporary Restraining Order-CADL v. Michigan Open Carry, Inc.
« Reply #39 on: February 18, 2011, 07:42:44 PM »
Three things:

First how would this affect members in terms of the 4473 question "Are you currently under a restraining order?"?

Second is anyone up for a peaceful picket of the Library?  Don't go in, or even cross on to their "property", just stand outside on the sidewalk maybe with signs, open carrying of course.  They think they can keep lawful carriers out, lets see how they feel about the entire sidewalk lined with people lawfully carrying so that anyone who goes in, or out will have to pass through the line, not to try to stop anyone, they can freely go in, and out, just as we can freely stand there, and let them, and everyone else see that we are not going away, maybe even bring the long guns out just to make a point.

Third what is their policy on knives?, what's to stop someone from rubbing their collective faces in it by say carrying a Sabre in?  OK maybe that's a little silly but these smarmy egotistical bastards are making me angry. >:(