Kel Tec PF9 1911 serpa?

[BTAvery]

I have heard claims that the Kel Tec PF-9 will lock into a 1911 Serpa holster if anyone knows for sure that would be great.

[Bronson]

I was also told that a Browning High Power would fit into a 1911 Serpa.  It fits in, coming out is another story.

My opinion--get gear made for your gun.

Bronson

[13mile9]

I find that interesting... the PF9 is very thin..  I would purchase the specific holster for that gun.   Also, I consider that style/size weapon primarily for inside the belt carry...   My opinion, by a cheap inside the belt holster (for now)...spend the money on ammo and range time to get as many rounds through that thing as possible...you pick the wrong ammo for that gun, it won't matter what holster your using.     

Where have you been shopping for holsters thus far?  Or, have just began the process?

 

[BTAvery]

Well theres no serpas for any Kel Tecs so I would have to go safiarland or whatever that company is and my guess is they only have leather IWB holsters. Which most consider IWB to be more concealed (which I'm 19 so no cpl). There reason I ask the first question was because I already have a 1911 serpa and if you look at a 1911 and the PF9 their trigger guards look almost identical and most 1911s are about an inch across on the slide and the PF9 is 0.88 inches.

[BTAvery]

Sorry for the double post but theres no edit button. Does anyone know where I can rent a Kel Tec PF9? Every place I have called they don't have them.

[Michigander]

I have some ideas, but frankly I have more questions for you than answers.

First, why would you want a PF9? A PF9 is a budget minded compromise CC gun. You give up compact size and a good trigger pull, nevermind full time plus P use, in order to save money. A better gun for the role of a DAO pocket gun is Kahr's pocket 9's, and they now offer a cheaper model called the CM9, which is a vastly better gun than anything made by Kel Tec., at least in terms of size, weight, and the ability to take full power ammo. This and their more pricey PM9 are in a very exclusive class of handguns, which is the pocket 9. Those two and the very expensive Rohrbaugh are just about it.

Further, how will you get one? You can't buy a handgun from a FFL at your age, nor will they rent one to you. A parent can gift one to you, but that's about it.

Lastly, why would you want to open carry a gun that small with that little power and that bad of a trigger? Seriously, in terms of power and shootable accuracy, I would take a Hi Point instead if on a budget. The Kel Tec family of weapons is serviceable, and the P11 is in a class all its own for size and capacity of 9mm, but they are all still second rate guns compared to others out there.

So anyway, about holsters, if you just HAVE to oc a Kel Tec, the only retention option I know since google didn't seem to want to find any is to make your own. You can take an old surplus revolver holster, the kind which uses a twist lock, and chop it down to fit your gun. You then have to use bolts or leather strands or 550 cord or something to put it back together. I did this for my P220 with an old Model 10 S&W holster I paid 10 bucks for. It's a level 2 holster, more or less. It's slow on the draw, and it's ugly. But it's secure and it cost me 20 bucks after all the costs of hockey tape, shoe goo and bolts were added up. Below is a picture.

[BTAvery]

Thanks for the reply Michiganander Kahrs are at their cheapest $500 a Kel Tec on the other hand $300 to my FFL dealer. Parent Gift obviously. Need to shoot the Kel Tec before I buy it to feel the trigger don't know how it shoots but double action triggers I adept to quickly. Well its going to be a multi use its going to serve as a back up for if something were to happen to my Kimber I still have a pistol to OC although its not great. It will also serve as my back up that I plan to wear in an ankle or at 4-5 o'clock when I get my CPL or as my primary carry when I can't OC/CC my Kimber. I have heard good reviews of the PF9. "little power" it shoots 9mm which I'm pretty sure most everyone would agree is plenty enough and if your talking about its round count its 8+1 same as my Kimber.I don't like leather kydex or nothing and I want it to be trigger finger release which is why I was looking to see if anyone had a PF9 and a 1911 serpa and stick it in there. I plan far in advance so I have plans for pretty much everything I buy.

[Michigander]

"little power" it shoots 9mm which I'm pretty sure most everyone would agree is plenty enough and if your talking about its round count its 8+1 same as my Kimber.

9mm is a round which gets its power from 2 things which both have to be present. An aggressive hollow point, and a very rapid velocity to enable it to achieve serious hydrostatic shock. Anything less than full power plus P ammo in a small 9mm and you may as well have a .380 or a makarov with modern, weak ammo. Full blown plus P ammo at that barrel length has about the same power as a .40 or .45.

The PF9 can deliver the power on a limited basis, and yes, I believe the capacity is small for a gun with that much length and height, because at that point I'd rather have a Glock 26, or even a P11. Granted we're only talking about fractions of an inch difference here, but you'll be rather amazed how much that can mean when it comes to deep cover concealment.

Compared to the Kahr, the PF9 It will kick harder, print more, and and take more time to fire accurately because of the trigger. And you'll scarcely ever want to shoot it with ammo you'd carry for fear of busting it, which I find extremely problematic, especially for a gun which kicks and flips that hard, because you really should be accustomed to the feel of shooting your carry ammo.

If that all sounds okay to you, by all means go for it. You can always sell it later, or decide you actually do like it. But I highly suggest you consider saving the money to buy the superior product. I'd like to think your life is worth protecting as well as possible, and since we're talking about roughly 2 years from now when it would be put to use, you do have the time to save an extra 200 or so. I don't really care for gun collecting, but I feel it is worth it to go well out of your way to make a purchase you have a hard time affording when it comes time to buy a defensive firearm. Choose wisely. 

[13mile9]

I personally went around this mountain for along time.... I loved the PF9, everything about it...and it is American made!  However, I waited and purchased the G26.  Oh my!   Everytime I put it on, I stop to think what a great carry weapon I have.    However, I still like the PF9, and if I had an extra $300, I might would still pick one up.   Also, the other gun manufactures have stepped it up in this market.  We will see more of these smaller weapons coming down the line. 

I will never knock things designed for those on a very tight budget. (because I'm on a tight budget...rais'n kids)   If one realized that he will never have more than $300 or so for a weapon, I would rather see them have something in their belt, rather than a dream in their mind.   

Bottom line...the smaller,  the more problems.  Physics. 

To say all that, I totally agree with Michigander. 

[Michigander]

Also, the other gun manufactures have stepped it up in this market.  We will see more of these smaller weapons coming down the line. 

The thing that both amazes and annoys me is how few pocket guns are available in DA/SA, or striker fired with a short reset.

In pocket size or close to pocket size, you have the PPK family which is either in .32 or kicks hard as hell, the newer PT709 Taurus, Glocks, the Beretta .32's which are known to break after less than 200 rounds, the new Kimber solo which is clearly based off of the Baby Browning and as such is significantly larger than it needed to be. And that is about it. 

I don't like the idea of pocketing a SAO, nor do I even like carrying handguns with safeties, but the fact that P238's have been flying off shelves  despite their high cost, I believe proves I'm right that many people care about a perfect trigger with a tiny gun. Even with as flooded as the market is with pocket gun designs, I sincerely hope that better designs are on the horizon. For the time being, Kahr and their decent DAO pull with otherwise perfect features is in my opinion reigning champion of the pocket gun game.

[BTAvery]

Like I said I need to shoot it before I buy it I always plan far in advance because if something doesn't serve atleast 5 purposes chances are you don't need it. I have shot the Kahr PM9 and shes nice but just out of my price range. If I found a deal on a PM9 for $450 I'd probably bite the bullet but everything I see its not going to get anywhere close to that. I haven't heard anything about it not being able to shoot +p ammo in fact I thought the barrel was stamped +p. My big issue is I want a back up that serves all the previous wants and cheap because I have plenty more I have on my list to buy. The PF9 meets my requirements that I know of (don't know about trigger or +p) and its cheap thats why I choose it.

[Bronson]

Kahr and their decent DAO pull with otherwise perfect features is in my opinion reigning champion of the pocket gun game.

Just hope you don't need to use their "customer service."  I won't purchase another of their products... which is too bad because it was a nice shooting gun, eventually.  But the hassles I had to go through to get the gun fixed properly were ridiculous.  Not to mention there is no reason for Kahr's 5 year warranty when companies with much lower cost products like Kel-Tec, HiPoint, and Bersa give their customers a lifetime warranty.

Service after the sale is important to me.  My dealings with Kahr told me that they think I should feel privileged to carry one of their products.

Bronson

[Michigander]

Again, check out the CM9. http://www.gunsamerica.com/blog/the-kahr-cm-9/

If you know a FFL who does cheap transfers, it will likely be available new for 450, and very possibly less. Full time plus P rated, and not too pricey.

About the values of plus P ammo, the difference is a .380 effect of an ice pick .357 hole through a bad guy, or serious hydrostatic shock. Hydrostatic shock can be summed up as a HP bullet expanding aggressively, and the air compressed into the hollow point exploding and making a really big ass hole. If you can't get that performance out of a small 9mm, you have almost no benefit over .380, other than the arguable benefits of available use of heavier bullets which should penetrate better, but this doesn't mean much if you simply use powerful FMJ or flat nosed .380.

With a longer barrel, as I'm sure you know, you get better velocity from more complete combustion. But with a barrel that short, the one and only way you can get 1200 FPS or so with a 115 or 125 grain JHP bullet is with plus P. And even with a longer barrel, plus P is highly desireable because you can get like 1400 FPS.  Again, it is the one and only saving grace for 9mm. Otherwise it is a weak little round which sucks pretty badly.

Plus P ammo use, reliability, size, shootable accuracy, and price are the only real considerations in getting a hideout 9. The Kel Tec falls short in Plus P, size, and accuracy.

So to sum up, the PF9 will work, but it will offer you nothing that can't be had better from other products.

In regards to Bronson's concern that their customer service sucks, you could also consider the fact that many don't like them for being owned by Moonies. There are many faults to be picked with them, but the problem is that they offer the best product yet available for this niche. I am among the first in line for someone, anyone to outdo them.

[Bronson]

In regards to Bronson's concern that their customer service sucks, you could also consider the fact that many don't like them for being owned by Moonies. There are many faults to be picked with them, but the problem is that they offer the best product yet available for this niche. I am among the first in line for someone, anyone to outdo them.

I couldn't care less what religion the owner's father founded.  I find it mildly offensive that you would imply such a thing.

Have you owned a Kahr?  There's one very important thing about them that, IMO, makes them questionable for carry purposes.  They are not designed to work with the "slingshot" method of chambering a round.  My experience from actually owning one confirms this.  They do not reliably or easily chamber a round unless you use the slide stop.  While this isn't a big deal when loading the gun it becomes a big deal when you do malfunction clearance drills.  There is a nice vid of Clint Smith from Thunder Ranch showing some of the most common an auto pistol can experience and how to clear them.... every single one uses the slingshot method which the Kahr doesn't do reliably.  After time they do loosen up a bit it took many hundreds of rounds before it would chamber a round by pulling back the slide and it never reached a point where I could just pull the slide back and let it go.  I always had to really snap the slide back.  This doesn't lend itself well to alternate methods of chambering like using your belt or shoe heel in case you had to operate the gun one handed.  This, to me, is something that needs to be seriously considered when considering carrying a Kahr pistol.

I loved the way my Kahr felt in my hand.  It has one of the nicest DAO triggers I've ever felt... smooth like butter.  Accuracy was great and recoil was very managable, especially for a light polymer gun.  But it does have some cons and it's important to know about them so they can be weighed against the pros when deciding on a pistol.

Bronson

[Michigander]

Wasn't trying to imply you specifically, or anyone else here cared about which religion Kahr's owners are involved with. Not even at all. Just that some people on the web make a big deal of it. Being as freedom oriented as we here are, I tend to doubt you could find any MOC members who would even remotely care.

Anyhow, I've never owned one, don't need a gun of that size currently, but I have shot a couple of them. The issue with chambering rounds is not something I remember from shooting it, probably since I tend to use slide stops, and didn't try malfunction clearance drills with them. Nor do I remember hearing about this before. Thank you for the information.

[Bronson]

Wasn't trying to imply you specifically, or anyone else here cared about which religion Kahr's owners are involved with. Not even at all. Just that some people on the web make a big deal of it. Being as freedom oriented as we here are, I tend to doubt you could find any MOC members who would even remotely care.

Went back and re-read it.  I apologize for my assumption as you did, indeed, not direct it at me.

didn't try malfunction clearance drills with them. Nor do I remember hearing about this before. Thank you for the information.

It's information that I wish I'd had before I purchased it.  That and the 5 year warranty thing.  And the "we'll charge you $40.00 and move your repair to the back of the line if you send it to us any other way than Next Day or 2nd Day Air" thing.

Bronson

[BTAvery]

I have heard all of Bronsons complaints before which is why I decided the PF9 its so cheap I'll shoot +p and I don't plan to shoot it very often, the very good reviews from nutnfancy and some other people I have talked to have shown the PF9 to be reliable in all the way the Kahr isn't and doesn't have that many problems. The big one for me is the fact that your almost forced to use the slide stop unless you slingshot really really hard. Which is a massive game ender for me. I don't know form rules about if a post getting off topic I personally don't care discussion is always good in my opinion.