Holster and Belt Selection

[KelticKowboy]

Hi all...

I am in need of an OC holster for my Glock 19 and a sturdy belt.  I have been leaning towards a Blackhawk.  Any suggestion out there? 

[SpringerXDacp]

Hi all...

I am in need of an OC holster for my Glock 19 and a sturdy belt.  I have been leaning towards a Blackhawk.  Any suggestion out there? 

Holsters with good to excellent retention for OC are the Blackhawk SERPA's, Safariland and Blade-Tech.  I have a Blade-Tech for my Glock 21SF and I'm fairly happy with it.  I would rather have a SERPA or Safariland I think.

http://www.safariland.com/       

http://www.blade-tech.com/

[stainless1911]

After carrying with the Blackhawk, I dont really want anything else.

BTW, I have an XD. XD is better than glock. Sell the glock, and buy an XD. tee hee hee hee

[Savage.Detroit]

I like the wilderness instructor belt.
http://store.thewilderness.com/index.php?cPath=43

[FatboyCykes]

While I personally use a Serpa for my XD, I'm having trouble recommending it after watching several Serpa failure videos.  I'm not sure I quite understand how their failing, but it happens from time to time.  I love mine and have had no issues with it however, I'm not sure I feel comfortable recommending it w/o that disclosure.  How terrible would it be to have a gun for self defense and have it fail on you when you needed it the most.

[KelticKowboy]

After carrying with the Blackhawk, I dont really want anything else.

BTW, I have an XD. XD is better than glock. Sell the glock, and buy an XD. tee hee hee hee

Funny!

[jeffsayers]

Many opinions to be had on this one. However, I would venture to say that because I have personally chosen the Blackhawk Serpa riding on my 1-1/2 inch wide horse/bullhide belt from Jim Spiedel, The Belt Man, there are simply no better alternatives. And if your looking for some ocean front property, then we need to talk, I have a nice parcell in Arizona.

Seriously though, The Belt Man rocks.
www.thebeltman.net
Tell him you were referred from Michigan Open Carry, I'm trying to earn his advertising. (And maybe a free elephant hide belt!)

[CoonDog]

I use the 1.5 inch (1.375 measured) Safariland Plainclothes Belt.  It's stiff.


That's what she said.

http://www.safariland.com/DutyGear/product.aspx?pid=L830

[Bronson]

Hi all...

I am in need of an OC holster for my Glock 19 and a sturdy belt.  I have been leaning towards a Blackhawk.  Any suggestion out there?  

What's your budget?  Do you want leather or plastic or don't you care?  Do you know what features are a must have and what you can live without?  What's more important to you: price, quality, or features?

There are a lot of variables in holster and belt selection and I'd need to know more of what you want/need in each before I could make any real recommendations.

Bronson

[FatboyCykes]

Hi all...

I am in need of an OC holster for my Glock 19 and a sturdy belt.  I have been leaning towards a Blackhawk.  Any suggestion out there?  

What's your budget?  Do you want leather or plastic or don't you care?  Do you know what features are a must have and what you can live without?  What's more important to you: price, quality, or features?

There are a lot of variables in holster and belt selection and I'd need to know more of what you want/need in each before I could make any real recommendations.

Bronson

If only you had a blank for an XD9 Bronson, I'd like to have one of those fine holsters you keep making.

[EM87]

I OC with a Serpa.  It's a quality holster and has good active retention.

[KelticKowboy]

As for budget I would like to spend no more than $100 for a both the holster and belt combined.  I don't have a strong preference over plastic or leather although I have heard that plastic doesn't create as much holster wear on the pistol.  I did once have a Sig 229 which I carried concealed in the winter with a Fobus and I was fairly happy with it and it was cheap.  I am looking for a holster that does have good retention features since it will be out in the open.  I have yet to look at many holster other than the Blackhawk Serpa.  One features that is drawing me to the Serpa it that it can be either stapped to a belt or used as a paddle holster.

[KelticKowboy]

Also...although not required it would be nice if holster could double for CC as well as OC.

[anetsprungen]

While I personally use a Serpa for my XD, I'm having trouble recommending it after watching several Serpa failure videos.  I'm not sure I quite understand how their failing, but it happens from time to time.  I love mine and have had no issues with it however, I'm not sure I feel comfortable recommending it w/o that disclosure.  How terrible would it be to have a gun for self defense and have it fail on you when you needed it the most.

I watched the video and experienced the same thing; initially.  Mind, the gun was fully unloaded.  Having never seen this kind of holster before, I was very suspicious about how well it would work.

First, I couldn't get the pistol to seat correctly.  I had to apply a lot of force.  Then, when I did, I couldn't get it out again.  I tried the adjustment screw, but it made no difference.  The retention device just would not release.  I was unable to depress the button enough to disengage it.

After a few cuss words and thoughts about writing a nastygram, I considered that it may be just that there was very little tolerance.  However, I had read a review on Amazon.com that had forewarned me this might happen.

I have a ParaOrdnance P14-45 and it may just be a snug fit.  I tried pushing the gun against a back stop to see if I could release the pressure on the spring and allow the release to disengage.  Eventually, it worked.  But I had to keep doing that about a dozen times, to loosen the mechanism enough so that it would engage/disengage the retention locking mechanism normally.  Now, it works fine.

Surprisingly, there was nothing in the literature that came with the holster to suggest there might be a problem; nor, what to do if the pistol became stuck.  But now that I know, I would definitely recommend it.


Roy
 

[KelticKowboy]

While I personally use a Serpa for my XD, I'm having trouble recommending it after watching several Serpa failure videos.  I'm not sure I quite understand how their failing, but it happens from time to time.  I love mine and have had no issues with it however, I'm not sure I feel comfortable recommending it w/o that disclosure.  How terrible would it be to have a gun for self defense and have it fail on you when you needed it the most.

I watched the video and experienced the same thing; initially.  Mind, the gun was fully unloaded.  Having never seen this kind of holster before, I was very suspicious about how well it would work.

First, I couldn't get the pistol to seat correctly.  I had to apply a lot of force.  Then, when I did, I couldn't get it out again.  I tried the adjustment screw, but it made no difference.  The retention device just would not release.  I was unable to depress the button enough to disengage it.

After a few cuss words and thoughts about writing a nastygram, I considered that it may be just that there was very little tolerance.  However, I had read a review on Amazon.com that had forewarned me this might happen.

I have a ParaOrdnance P14-45 and it may just be a snug fit.  I tried pushing the gun against a back stop to see if I could release the pressure on the spring and allow the release to disengage.  Eventually, it worked.  But I had to keep doing that about a dozen times, to loosen the mechanism enough so that it would engage/disengage the retention locking mechanism normally.  Now, it works fine.

Surprisingly, there was nothing in the literature that came with the holster to suggest there might be a problem; nor, what to do if the pistol became stuck.  But now that I know, I would definitely recommend it.


Roy
 

A friend of mine had a similar experience with a Para.  He had to file out some material around the trigger guard.  He hasn't had a problem since.

[FatboyCykes]

Dumb question Roy, but are you positive that  you had the correct holster for the pistol you were using?

[anetsprungen]

Funny you should ask.  'Cause I searched and I searched, across the web and across Blackhawk's website, but I could not find anything that specifically mentioned the ParaOrdnance model.  So, I went with the only option available, Colt 1911 Clone.  I understand there are some small differences in the magazine well to accommodate the high capacity magazine, but I believe the external dimensions are virtually the same.

Fortunately, as I said, after working the pistol in and out, in and out about a dozen times, the SERPA would engage/disengage reliably.

C'est la vie.  It works fine now.


Roy
 

[Bronson]

As for budget I would like to spend no more than $100 for a both the holster and belt combined. 

If I take that as the primary driving factor of your decision I would recommend a Blackhawk Serpa or one of the many fine Safariland holsters that are available like the 6280 or the 6285 (shop around online for the best prices) and the Wilderness Tactical Products original instructors belt with either the 5 lines of stitching or the plastic reinforcement.  Full disclosure----I have never used a belt like the one posted above but they receive very good reviews from people who have used them and it will probably be my next gun belt purchase.

In another post you said it would be nice if the holster could also double as a CC rig.....what exactly do you mean by that?  Do you want it to function as both an IWB and OWB holster?  Or would a dedicated OWB rig that rode close to your body be what you were looking for?

Bronson

[KelticKowboy]

As for budget I would like to spend no more than $100 for a both the holster and belt combined. 

If I take that as the primary driving factor of your decision I would recommend a Blackhawk Serpa or one of the many fine Safariland holsters that are available like the 6280 or the 6285 (shop around online for the best prices) and the Wilderness Tactical Products original instructors belt with either the 5 lines of stitching or the plastic reinforcement.  Full disclosure----I have never used a belt like the one posted above but they receive very good reviews from people who have used them and it will probably be my next gun belt purchase.

In another post you said it would be nice if the holster could also double as a CC rig.....what exactly do you mean by that?  Do you want it to function as both an IWB and OWB holster?  Or would a dedicated OWB rig that rode close to your body be what you were looking for?

Bronson

When I say I would like it to double as a CC holster my thinking is that I would like something that rides close to the body.

[CoonDog]

I own both Safariland's 6287 and 6280, and just bought a Serpa for my Walther P99.  The Serpa is the most comfortable AND rides the closest to my body AND is the easiest to conceal.  It sits  so close there is very little room to tuck my shirt behind it unless I tuck my shirt in.  On the 6287, I have the optional Sentry attachment and have to say that, at least at the moment, I trust the thumb loop + Sentry more than I trust the Serpa.  Not that the gun would fall out of the Serpa, but that it's so easy to pull out quickly that it might not be as secure in a tussle/LEO pull situation.  This fear may be unfounded and may subside as I wear it more, but that's my initial impression.  The Serpa will definitely be my primary concealment holster, even more than my Don Hume IWB.  I haven't yet decided if the Serpa will become my primary OC holster.  I'll have to wear it to the Westland OC picnic and see how comfortable I am with it.

The 6280 sits away from the body and is a huge lump under my shirt.  Being that the 6285 has a similar belt loop, I imagine it would sit the same way.

[Bronson]

Pretty much what CoonDog said.

Another option is a leather OWB with a thumbreak retention strap.  The technology is simple but effective and fairly free of mechanical failures.  There are many many holster makers out on the interwebnetz that could hook you up.

Bronson

[CoonDog]

To add to Bronson's excellent comment on leather OWB, check out the Galco Fletch.

[Michigander]

I use a Fine Tac safariland 6280 and a Raine Inc gun belt. Holster was 80, belt was 20. I am very happy with the rig for its durability and retention. Although, I don't discourage Serpa use if you want a little more speed and are willing to sacrifice retention and have faster holster wear on your guns finish.

[FatboyCykes]

I use a Fine Tac safariland 6280 and a Raine Inc gun belt. Holster was 80, belt was 20. I am very happy with the rig for its durability and retention. Although, I don't discourage Serpa use if you want a little more speed and are willing to sacrifice retention and have faster holster wear on your guns finish.

Yep, I don't have much on my xd9, but it's on both sides of the slide in front of the action on the corners.

[mcintosh]

I've personally seen a 1911 stuck in a SERPA so bad that it took 4 full grown men (1 on the gun, 2 holding the holster, and one depressing the lever) to get it out. There is a video floating around somewhere. Ask RSF (on ocdo), he was the one pulling the gun.

Now that I think about it, I'm not sure if they ever got it out, I walked away while they were still struggling with it.

I just put in an order for a gunbelt with this little leather shop up on Linden Rd., M&M Leathercraft. I should be hearing back from them any day now, I'll tell you how it goes. I went with a simple 1.5" dark brown that will be able to accept the intercanageable buckles that I currently wear on my normal belts.

[autosurgeon]

I've personally seen a 1911 stuck in a SERPA so bad that it took 4 full grown men (1 on the gun, 2 holding the holster, and one depressing the lever) to get it out. There is a video floating around somewhere. Ask RSF (on ocdo), he was the one pulling the gun.

Now that I think about it, I'm not sure if they ever got it out, I walked away while they were still struggling with it.

I just put in an order for a gunbelt with this little leather shop up on Linden Rd., M&M Leathercraft. I should be hearing back from them any day now, I'll tell you how it goes. I went with a simple 1.5" dark brown that will be able to accept the intercanageable buckles that I currently wear on my normal belts.

I am not entirely convinced.. While I don't doubt it was stuck I want to know why. The holster is just too simple. Also as not all 1911's have the same size trigger guard I wonder if this might have contributed to the problem...

[FatboyCykes]

While I personally use a Serpa for my XD, I'm having trouble recommending it after watching several Serpa failure videos.  I'm not sure I quite understand how their failing, but it happens from time to time.  I love mine and have had no issues with it however, I'm not sure I feel comfortable recommending it w/o that disclosure.  How terrible would it be to have a gun for self defense and have it fail on you when you needed it the most.

From the first page...

[mcintosh]

Thanks Cykes, I usually browse the boards when I have a free minute at work, and I don't often watch the videos.

Nothing in that video was set up. It was pretty interesting, at the beginning of class, Steve rounded all of us up to look at our gear. He was able to call out just about every piece of equipment that would malfunction that day before it happened based on brand alone.

I am still waiting on parts for my safariland (and a good belt) but it seems to be a more reliable system to me.

[Michigander]

I am not a Serpa fan, but it isn't fair to bash them without an extremely thorough explanation. The military issues them, people here use them in droves, and I have never heard of the modern ones jamming, ever, aside from non specific complaints, like that video which has lots of bitching and no details.

I will continue to recommend them to people who want decent security at a cheap price, because no one at this point has presented substantiated evidence that they have any problems.

Don't get me wrong, if that video wasn't staged, I'll be the first to jump on the bandwagon and help discourage Serpa's. But first I would need detailed descriptions, and at least pictures but preferably video evidence of exactly what the problem is. Short of that, it amounts to nothing more than unsubstantiated garbage. No offense intended to mcintosh or anyone else, but please show the evidence if you want to be taken seriously.

[Bronson]

RE: the vid.  I'm betting a little downward pressure on the gun would allow the button to be depressed.

Here is a vid detailing how a Serpa could fail,

That being said I still use one until I can motivate myself to make a leather retention holster.

Bronson

[FatboyCykes]

The one(s) I've seen from you are very nice, looking forward to your next one.

I still use and love mine, but until this is settled, I dunno, I just don't want to ever have to feel responsible if I recommend one and it does fail when needed the most :/

[mcintosh]

I am not a Serpa fan, but it isn't fair to bash them without an extremely thorough explanation. The military issues them, people here use them in droves, and I have never heard of the modern ones jamming, ever, aside from non specific complaints, like that video which has lots of bitching and no details.

I will continue to recommend them to people who want decent security at a cheap price, because no one at this point has presented substantiated evidence that they have any problems.

Don't get me wrong, if that video wasn't staged, I'll be the first to jump on the bandwagon and help discourage Serpa's. But first I would need detailed descriptions, and at least pictures but preferably video evidence of exactly what the problem is. Short of that, it amounts to nothing more than unsubstantiated garbage. No offense intended to mcintosh or anyone else, but please show the evidence if you want to be taken seriously.

I'm not bashing the thing, I'm just not going to recommend it to anyone I know.
I have no evidence to back the video other than the fact that I was at that class and I watched it unfold. I'm not asking that anyone believe me, just relaying my experience. As soon as the jam was reported to the instructors, they whipped out the camera to record. As far as I know, no other records of this particular event exist. It's not like there were news trucks and multiple camera crews on hand, it was a carbine training course.

I do know that MDFI (the company putting on the class), has it printed right on the website that SERPAs are not allowed in their classes. Presumably because they have witnessed them fail.

I'm not here to condemn or condone, just calling it like I've seen it.

[Michigander]

Were you guys crawling around in gravel? Is it possible that it was an old one which had the failure prone retention button?

[CoonDog]

Re: the Serpa, don't over-tighten the retention screw and you'll be fine.  Having said that, I'm OCing the 6287 atm and will be for the foreseeable future.

[ocdetroit]

I have a glock 19 4th Gen. I carry the blackhawk Serpa no problems.

[stainless1911]

My guess is that this is a case of user error. If the adjustment screw isnt adjusted properly, you wont get the gun out. Or, as was mensioned, push the gun in, then retry.

[clark40]

Don't get me wrong, if that video wasn't staged, I'll be the first to jump on the bandwagon and help discourage Serpa's. But first I would need detailed descriptions, and at least pictures but preferably video evidence of exactly what the problem is. Short of that, it amounts to nothing more than unsubstantiated garbage. No offense intended to mcintosh or anyone else, but please show the evidence if you want to be taken seriously.


-----------------------------------
Clark
ccnp certification
USA

[FatboyCykes]

Don't get me wrong, if that video wasn't staged, I'll be the first to jump on the bandwagon and help discourage Serpa's. But first I would need detailed descriptions, and at least pictures but preferably video evidence of exactly what the problem is. Short of that, it amounts to nothing more than unsubstantiated garbage. No offense intended to mcintosh or anyone else, but please show the evidence if you want to be taken seriously.


-----------------------------------
Clark
ccnp certification
USA

Welcome to MOC!

[KelticKowboy]

Update...

Today I purchased a Galco FX Suede holster for my Glock 19.  It is a black leather holster with a retention strap.  Although not cheap I figured if I am going to spend $700 on a gun why not let it ride in comfort and style.  So far it is a very comfortable holster which rides close to the body.  I would be comfortable using it for either CC or OC.

[Evil Creamsicle]

Another nice idea is carrying a backup 

[army74]

Ive got a level 2 serpa holster no problem there is a adjustment screw on it i would need more info on the problem. I use my 9mm sigma in it ive got a ruger 38special,looking at a ruger lcp 380 or a sccy 9mm compact let me know your opinions on them and what holster to best fit them.

[Beerme]

Were you guys crawling around in gravel? Is it possible that it was an old one which had the failure prone retention button?

it was the old one you can look at the color and tell
the old crap ones were light gray
they were the ones that had the bad button
and the ones that broke off the paddle easily

[Bronson]

I've been messing with my Serpa and I've found that I can make it jam every single time.  To make the jam happen just pull up on the gun, like you're drawing it, before you press the button.  With upward pressure on the gun the button will not depress and it won't release until you put downward pressure on the gun and press the button.

Of course this is what it's supposed to do, prevent somebody from pulling the gun without pushing the button.  If I lay my finger on the release button as I get my grip with downward pressure on the gun it releases like butter...every time.  The training vids I've encountered all say to come down on the gun when obtaining your grip and the Serpa seems to require that in order to function properly.  At least mine do.

Bronson

[autosurgeon]

I still contend that the problems with the new design serpa is a training problem not a mechanical.