Author Topic: Stopped my LEO whilst riding my bicycle  (Read 36226 times)

0 Members and 1 Guest are viewing this topic.

Offline Glock9mmOldStyle

  • MOC Member
  • *
  • Posts: 603
Re: Stopped my LEO whilst riding my bicycle
« Reply #20 on: April 21, 2011, 12:28:53 AM »
I wish you the best on your future  bike rides. I suggest you contact your local city council / mayor's office. Inform them of this stop & why it violated your civil rights. Ask them to speak with the chief of police and request that training be provided to the departments officers regarding OC. Refer them to MSP legal updates [particularly #86]. By doing this you are being proactive, this also takes away their ability to claim ignorance in the future. Be sure to note that should these kind of stops continue it may leave the city liable in civil lawsuits in the future.

www.michigan.gov/documents/msp/MSP_Legal_Update_No._86_2_336854_7.pdf

Kind regards,

G9OS
"It is now more likely that a person will be the victim of a violent crime than that he will be in an auto accident. Despite this, most people readily believe that the existence of the police relieves them of the responsibility to take full measures to protect themselves."
 -Jeffrey Snyder 1993

Offline kryptonian

  • Posts: 183
  • First Name (Displayed): dave
Re: Stopped my LEO whilst riding my bicycle
« Reply #21 on: April 21, 2011, 09:15:07 AM »
when i was approached on foot by a polite oakland county deputy my encounter went well, quick and professional when i produced ID and info about myself. when i had my first, one and only negative LEO encounter at the same spot only the other side of the road and another jurisdiction they somehow knew ALL about me the minute they got out of the car. i of course KNOW they shared my info with EVERYBODY. when i informed the officer is was former LEO he said "yeah. we know. you said you were a cop in houston". i said "no i didn't tell you. who told you that?" he backpedaled and lied "your neighbors told me that"..no they didn't. they DO share and spread your info. don't think they don't.
i don't fear the barking dog...i'm scared of the quiet dog

Offline BTAvery

  • Posts: 233
Re: Stopped my LEO whilst riding my bicycle
« Reply #22 on: April 21, 2011, 10:35:32 AM »
"May I see your papers, please.

I'm sorry. Your papers are not in order.

You will have to come with me.

I am putting these handcuffs on you for your protection as well as mine.

Please don't resist. I am only doing my job."

OC on a bicycle has been hashed out repeatedly. A MSP letter of opinion has also been issued. A CPL is not required to OC on a bicycle. I would cit e a law that says you can do it, but just as there is no law requiring a permit to OC itself, none exists requiring a permit to OC on a bicycle.

As far as this stop is concerned, the officer knew he had no lawful basis to request ID, yet he did so nonetheless. To provide ID in light of this is... acknowledgement of servitude.
Now you have me confused I thought the law said vehicle and mentions nothing about whether it is motorized or not. Therefore a bicycle would be included.

Offline METL

  • Posts: 632
Re: Stopped my LEO whilst riding my bicycle
« Reply #23 on: April 21, 2011, 11:31:25 AM »
I think maybe it's more a bicycle COULD be included...     

/talkin out of my ace though....

Offline dlgeorge

  • Posts: 23
Re: Stopped my LEO whilst riding my bicycle
« Reply #24 on: April 21, 2011, 11:33:57 AM »
I sent an email to the Monroe county sheriff through the Sheriff's website describing the incident.  tellthesheriff@monroemi.org

I would post the letter here, but I don't need another 15 or 20 replies ripping it apart.  I'll let you know what he says if/when he replies.


Offline TheQ

  • Website Content Manager
  • MOC Lifetime Member
  • *
  • Posts: 4263
    • Michigan Open Carry, Inc.
  • First Name (Displayed): Phillip
Stopped my LEO whilst riding my bicycle
« Reply #25 on: April 21, 2011, 07:03:40 PM »
"May I see your papers, please.

I'm sorry. Your papers are not in order.

You will have to come with me.

I am putting these handcuffs on you for your protection as well as mine.

Please don't resist. I am only doing my job."

OC on a bicycle has been hashed out repeatedly. A MSP letter of opinion has also been issued. A CPL is not required to OC on a bicycle. I would cit e a law that says you can do it, but just as there is no law requiring a permit to OC itself, none exists requiring a permit to OC on a bicycle.

As far as this stop is concerned, the officer knew he had no lawful basis to request ID, yet he did so nonetheless. To provide ID in light of this is... acknowledgement of servitude.
Now you have me confused I thought the law said vehicle and mentions nothing about whether it is motorized or not. Therefore a bicycle would be included.

If you're stopped on a vehicle (bicycle, motorcycle) you best disclose -- as silly as that sounds. They should be able to see it on your hip. Disclose anyhow.
I Am Not A Lawyer (nor a gunsmith).

Offline ocdetroit

  • Posts: 462
  • STAY STRONG (WE THE PEOPLE).
  • First Name (Displayed): THE BIG O
Re: Stopped my LEO whilst riding my bicycle
« Reply #26 on: April 21, 2011, 09:38:47 PM »
 8) +1 Oh only reason you stopped me is for OC'ing? I'm i being detained? No ok i'm leaving, have a good day. Carry On. :)
Open carry in Detroit
With both of them.

Offline CV67PAT

  • MOC Charter Member
  • Posts: 2615
Re: Stopped my LEO whilst riding my bicycle
« Reply #27 on: April 21, 2011, 11:44:14 PM »
"May I see your papers, please.

I'm sorry. Your papers are not in order.

You will have to come with me.

I am putting these handcuffs on you for your protection as well as mine.

Please don't resist. I am only doing my job."

OC on a bicycle has been hashed out repeatedly. A MSP letter of opinion has also been issued. A CPL is not required to OC on a bicycle. I would cit e a law that says you can do it, but just as there is no law requiring a permit to OC itself, none exists requiring a permit to OC on a bicycle.

As far as this stop is concerned, the officer knew he had no lawful basis to request ID, yet he did so nonetheless. To provide ID in light of this is... acknowledgement of servitude.
Now you have me confused I thought the law said vehicle and mentions nothing about whether it is motorized or not. Therefore a bicycle would be included.

If you're stopped on a vehicle (bicycle, motorcycle) you best disclose -- as silly as that sounds. They should be able to see it on your hip. Disclose anyhow.

If riding a bicycle, why? I can and do agree on the motorcycle. But in light of all the previous information discussed and revealed, prior to your having come to the party Q, there is no know basis for doing so whilst riding a bicycle.

If you want to pull that gray area rabbit out of you hat, I will have to relent. But as far as I am concerned, there is no gray are that requires disclosure while riding a bicycle. What would be the basis of disclosure in the first place if the rider doesn't even have a CPL?
Want to keep informed of events in your area? Go to http://www.miopencarry.org/update

Offline Glock9mmOldStyle

  • MOC Member
  • *
  • Posts: 603
Re: Stopped my LEO whilst riding my bicycle
« Reply #28 on: April 22, 2011, 01:52:17 AM »
I sent an email to the Monroe county sheriff through the Sheriff's website describing the incident.  tellthesheriff@monroemi.org

I would post the letter here, but I don't need another 15 or 20 replies ripping it apart.  I'll let you know what he says if/when he replies.

Good on you dlgeorge for following up on this. No one here [myself included] should be ripping any of your posts apart. You did what seemed to be right for you at the time. No one is faulting you for that. It was a learning experience for you & us ;) Maybe it is just a matter of laxed training on your PD's part? I know when I took my CPL class the person running it was from Monroe Co Sheriff's office & they were completely clueless to OC and gave lots of outdated & just plain wrong info regarding it (OC). :o
"It is now more likely that a person will be the victim of a violent crime than that he will be in an auto accident. Despite this, most people readily believe that the existence of the police relieves them of the responsibility to take full measures to protect themselves."
 -Jeffrey Snyder 1993

Offline TheQ

  • Website Content Manager
  • MOC Lifetime Member
  • *
  • Posts: 4263
    • Michigan Open Carry, Inc.
  • First Name (Displayed): Phillip
Stopped my LEO whilst riding my bicycle
« Reply #29 on: April 22, 2011, 08:15:03 AM »
If you want to pull that gray area rabbit out of you hat, I will have to relent. But as far as I am concerned, there is no gray are that requires disclosure while riding a bicycle. What would be the basis of disclosure in the first place if the rider doesn't even have a CPL?
If he has no CPL then he could face felony CCW.
I Am Not A Lawyer (nor a gunsmith).

Offline CV67PAT

  • MOC Charter Member
  • Posts: 2615
Re: Stopped my LEO whilst riding my bicycle
« Reply #30 on: April 22, 2011, 08:18:31 AM »
cite?
Want to keep informed of events in your area? Go to http://www.miopencarry.org/update

Offline TheQ

  • Website Content Manager
  • MOC Lifetime Member
  • *
  • Posts: 4263
    • Michigan Open Carry, Inc.
  • First Name (Displayed): Phillip
Stopped my LEO whilst riding my bicycle
« Reply #31 on: April 22, 2011, 10:26:07 AM »
I Am Not A Lawyer (nor a gunsmith).

Offline CV67PAT

  • MOC Charter Member
  • Posts: 2615
Want to keep informed of events in your area? Go to http://www.miopencarry.org/update

Offline TheQ

  • Website Content Manager
  • MOC Lifetime Member
  • *
  • Posts: 4263
    • Michigan Open Carry, Inc.
  • First Name (Displayed): Phillip
I Am Not A Lawyer (nor a gunsmith).


Offline Glock9mmOldStyle

  • MOC Member
  • *
  • Posts: 603
Re: Stopped my LEO whilst riding my bicycle
« Reply #35 on: April 23, 2011, 11:06:45 PM »
And Pat lobs it back to the Q. Stay tuned Folks, this promises to be a epic battle of wills here...on the order of Borg v. McEnroe.  :P




"It is now more likely that a person will be the victim of a violent crime than that he will be in an auto accident. Despite this, most people readily believe that the existence of the police relieves them of the responsibility to take full measures to protect themselves."
 -Jeffrey Snyder 1993

Offline CV67PAT

  • MOC Charter Member
  • Posts: 2615
Re: Stopped my LEO whilst riding my bicycle
« Reply #36 on: April 23, 2011, 11:21:20 PM »
Really, this one has been researched extensively. Mikesilly did an exemplary job of providing information and background and analysis about the lawfulness as to the open carry of a pistol on a bicycle without a CPL prior to his Warren bicycle rally/picnic. Not a single person was stopped during the miles upon miles ridden prior to the picnic. All of the info was checked, rechecked and validated far in advance. Taxwhat and Ventilator also had a hand in the compilation of verifiable information that was disseminated. I would post it all here, but it was all lost by OCDO during its forum upgrade.

Does anyone have a copy of the Michigan State Police Legal Liason's, I believe the Trooper's name was Deasley, response to the question of a CPL being required to possess a loaded firearm while riding a bicycle?

The statute cited by q references a vehicle. As used in that statute, bicycle is not a vehicle.

I can't provide a case law to defend my position, because none exists to prove the q's.

As lame as it may seem, it is the best I can do. I can't prove a negative.
Want to keep informed of events in your area? Go to http://www.miopencarry.org/update

Offline TaxWhat

  • Posts: 31
Re: Stopped my LEO whilst riding my bicycle
« Reply #37 on: April 24, 2011, 04:03:14 AM »
CV67PAT  is correct, MICHIGAN Moter Veh code bike is bike ,even at this time battery powered are just bike.NO CPL NEEDED.Lighting round over.

Offline METL

  • Posts: 632
Re: Stopped my LEO whilst riding my bicycle
« Reply #38 on: April 24, 2011, 09:42:35 AM »
This may be different, but can't you get an OUIL on a bike?

Offline CV67PAT

  • MOC Charter Member
  • Posts: 2615
Re: Stopped my LEO whilst riding my bicycle
« Reply #39 on: April 24, 2011, 11:04:54 AM »
This may be different, but can't you get an OUIL on a bike?

Yes you can also get charged with OUIL on a horse, a lawnmower, a rickshaw and many others. Different statute... different definitions.
Want to keep informed of events in your area? Go to http://www.miopencarry.org/update