Author Topic: Stopped my LEO whilst riding my bicycle  (Read 45764 times)

0 Members and 2 Guests are viewing this topic.

Offline METL

  • Posts: 632
Re: Stopped my LEO whilst riding my bicycle
« Reply #40 on: April 24, 2011, 11:19:05 AM »
This may be different, but can't you get an OUIL on a bike?

Yes you can also get charged with OUIL on a horse, a lawnmower, a rickshaw and many others. Different statute... different definitions.


That's what I was wondering... similar to the definition including cities, towns, villages, AUTHORITIES, but being in a different statute.  :(

Offline TheQ

  • Website Content Manager
  • MOC Lifetime Member
  • *
  • Posts: 4263
    • Michigan Open Carry, Inc.
  • First Name (Displayed): Phillip
Stopped my LEO whilst riding my bicycle
« Reply #41 on: April 24, 2011, 12:40:05 PM »
I've seen bikes rigged up with weed whacked motors, is that still "just a bike"?
I Am Not A Lawyer (nor a gunsmith).

Offline CV67PAT

  • MOC Charter Member
  • Posts: 2615
Re: Stopped my LEO whilst riding my bicycle
« Reply #42 on: April 24, 2011, 12:55:06 PM »
I've seen bikes rigged up with weed whacked motors, is that still "just a bike"?

Yes OUIL is unlawful on bikes rigged up with weed whacked motors.
Want to keep informed of events in your area? Go to http://www.miopencarry.org/update

Offline TheQ

  • Website Content Manager
  • MOC Lifetime Member
  • *
  • Posts: 4263
    • Michigan Open Carry, Inc.
  • First Name (Displayed): Phillip
Stopped my LEO whilst riding my bicycle
« Reply #43 on: April 24, 2011, 01:46:28 PM »
I've seen bikes rigged up with weed whacked motors, is that still "just a bike"?

Yes OUIL is unlawful on bikes rigged up with weed whacked motors.

What about the need for a CPL?
I Am Not A Lawyer (nor a gunsmith).

Offline CV67PAT

  • MOC Charter Member
  • Posts: 2615
Re: Stopped my LEO whilst riding my bicycle
« Reply #44 on: April 24, 2011, 03:39:35 PM »
I've seen bikes rigged up with weed whacked motors, is that still "just a bike"?

Yes OUIL is unlawful on bikes rigged up with weed whacked motors.

What about the need for a CPL?

I think the weed whacked motor will have to be hashed out in court.
Want to keep informed of events in your area? Go to http://www.miopencarry.org/update

Offline Big Gay Al

  • MOC Member
  • *
  • Posts: 133
  • Rock Island Armory 1911A1 FS Tactical .45 ACP
    • Big Gay Al's Big Gay (Gun) Blog
  • First Name (Displayed): Al
Re: Stopped my LEO whilst riding my bicycle
« Reply #45 on: April 25, 2011, 08:44:13 AM »
Saturday I was alone riding my bicycle around the block, which is a 3 mile ride since I live in the country. I was open carrying my Ruger P90. I was passed by several cars including this white unmarked SUV.
Well, everyone else has weighed in, I might as well also.  Honestly, I would most likely have done the same thing.  Specially if I didn't feel up to starting a potential argument or creating a scene on the side of the road as I refuse to produce ID, and the deputy calls for back up, a supervisor and whatever other help he thinks he might need.

Big Gay Al
Coordinator, Michigan Pink Pistols

Offline CV67PAT

  • MOC Charter Member
  • Posts: 2615
Re: Stopped my LEO whilst riding my bicycle
« Reply #46 on: April 25, 2011, 09:03:44 PM »
I agree Al.

Look at all the crap your little freak buddy caused.

And that Rosa Parks. She should have shut up and sat down in the back of the bus. Look at the mess that caused.
Want to keep informed of events in your area? Go to http://www.miopencarry.org/update

Offline Big Gay Al

  • MOC Member
  • *
  • Posts: 133
  • Rock Island Armory 1911A1 FS Tactical .45 ACP
    • Big Gay Al's Big Gay (Gun) Blog
  • First Name (Displayed): Al
Re: Stopped my LEO whilst riding my bicycle
« Reply #47 on: April 25, 2011, 10:16:07 PM »
I agree Al.

Look at all the crap your little freak buddy caused.

And that Rosa Parks. She should have shut up and sat down in the back of the bus. Look at the mess that caused.
I don't agree with everything Lil_freak does, or how he does it.  I certainly don't agree with carrying a shotgun into the library, lawful or not.  But that is simply my opinion.

As for Rosa Parks, was she packing when she refused to go to the back of the bus?
Big Gay Al
Coordinator, Michigan Pink Pistols

Offline CV67PAT

  • MOC Charter Member
  • Posts: 2615
Re: Stopped my LEO whilst riding my bicycle
« Reply #48 on: April 25, 2011, 10:30:23 PM »

I don't agree with everything Lil_freak does, or how he does it.  I certainly don't agree with carrying a shotgun into the library, lawful or not.  But that is simply my opinion.

As for Rosa Parks, was she packing when she refused to go to the back of the bus?

Mark the calendars!!! BGA & I have formed an alliance on this island.

I had to throw Rosa out there. Someone posted a Rosa statistic as it relates to forums. So I figured this thread had run long enough and needed a Rosa post. I do think she was packing, though. Some junk in the trunk if I recall.
Want to keep informed of events in your area? Go to http://www.miopencarry.org/update

Offline CV67PAT

  • MOC Charter Member
  • Posts: 2615
Re: Stopped my LEO whilst riding my bicycle
« Reply #49 on: April 25, 2011, 10:59:58 PM »
I may have announced that alliance too hastily. And without research...

Actually, maybe more to the point, what does it matter who was carrying a long gun in the library.  I though MOC was about Open Carry of all firearms.  Did that change, since Venator is no longer president of MOC?
Want to keep informed of events in your area? Go to http://www.miopencarry.org/update

Offline Big Gay Al

  • MOC Member
  • *
  • Posts: 133
  • Rock Island Armory 1911A1 FS Tactical .45 ACP
    • Big Gay Al's Big Gay (Gun) Blog
  • First Name (Displayed): Al
Re: Stopped my LEO whilst riding my bicycle
« Reply #50 on: April 26, 2011, 06:48:02 AM »
Not so much.  So far, long arm carry IS still lawful in Michigan.  It doesn't mean I agree with it.  I do not, unless you're out hunting.  I've always thought the idea of lawful OC for self defense should be for handguns only.  I myself, would never carry a long arm, unless it was part of a political statement, and most likely part of a march downtown. 

Now, I'll grant there will be some people who will take the position that while OCing a handgun is lawful, that doesn't make it right either.  To which I would simply respond, carrying ANY firearm is not just lawful, it is a right, guaranteed by the US and Michigan Constitutions.  Our problem is in educating the sheeple that it is a right, and that they should not be frightened by the mere sight of a firearm.  However, as it has been pointed out before in the past, and in other places, baby steps are the way to go.  Baby steps would be getting the public at large used to seeing HANDGUNS carried openly first.  Assuming we can ever get that done, the next step could be long arms.  But frankly, for purposes of self defense, I don't see it.

When I go out and about doing my business, I don't need to worry about whether or not I can fit through a door way because of the length of the barrel on my OCed long arm.  And I certainly don't want to try to go through the doorway of any business with a 30" barreled goose gun, where I have to bend over so far to get it through the door, I end up sweeping everyone in the room with the business end.

Those of you who disagree with me, are free to do so, as I am free to disagree with you.  But my basic stance is, unless you're out hunting, you don't need a long arm for self defense.  Specially in down town areas of cities and towns.  Legal?  Yes it is, doesn't make it the right thing to do though, or the intelligent thing either.  For now, anyway.

Oh, and I did find out, MOC did change it's basic philosophy, and no longer supports long arm OC.  That became pretty obvious when they removed the long arm OC sub forum.  ;)
Big Gay Al
Coordinator, Michigan Pink Pistols

Offline CV67PAT

  • MOC Charter Member
  • Posts: 2615
Re: Stopped my LEO whilst riding my bicycle
« Reply #51 on: April 26, 2011, 11:31:40 AM »
The discussion to distance itself from the LG OC was done 2 days after Ponderossa. During that meeting is where I made my flip flop from supporting it to not. Thanks primarily to Ghostrider, Taxwhat, Wardog, and Generaldet.
Want to keep informed of events in your area? Go to http://www.miopencarry.org/update

Offline Big Gay Al

  • MOC Member
  • *
  • Posts: 133
  • Rock Island Armory 1911A1 FS Tactical .45 ACP
    • Big Gay Al's Big Gay (Gun) Blog
  • First Name (Displayed): Al
Re: Stopped my LEO whilst riding my bicycle
« Reply #52 on: April 26, 2011, 11:53:04 AM »
I've never considered LG OC to be a good idea, but as has been pointed out, it is legal.  It just seems to me that OCing a handgun is one thing, specially when you consider that a lot of people just don't notice.  But, a long arm?  You can't help but see an AR15 or some other rifle strapped to someone's back, or slung on their shoulder.  I'll grant, there are times when it might work as a political statement, such as in a parade/march or other political demonstration, but not breakfast/lunch/brunch/dinner.  Specially when the manager/owner has agreed thinking it's gonna be handguns only.

If you want to do long arm OC at some place like Ponderosa or Big Boy, I'd clear it with management first.  It will cut way down on any misunderstandings.

But as I've said before, I won't do it.
Big Gay Al
Coordinator, Michigan Pink Pistols

Offline venator

  • MOC Member
  • *
  • Posts: 339
    • My Parents Open Carry book order
Re: Stopped my LEO whilst riding my bicycle
« Reply #53 on: April 26, 2011, 03:35:31 PM »
Really, this one has been researched extensively. Mikesilly did an exemplary job of providing information and background and analysis about the lawfulness as to the open carry of a pistol on a bicycle without a CPL prior to his Warren bicycle rally/picnic. Not a single person was stopped during the miles upon miles ridden prior to the picnic. All of the info was checked, rechecked and validated far in advance. Taxwhat and Ventilator also had a hand in the compilation of verifiable information that was disseminated. I would post it all here, but it was all lost by OCDO during its forum upgrade.

Does anyone have a copy of the Michigan State Police Legal Liason's, I believe the Trooper's name was Deasley, response to the question of a CPL being required to possess a loaded firearm while riding a bicycle?

The statute cited by q references a vehicle. As used in that statute, bicycle is not a vehicle.

I can't provide a case law to defend my position, because none exists to prove the q's.

As lame as it may seem, it is the best I can do. I can't prove a negative.

This has been discussed to death.  My opinion is that a prosecutor could argue successfully that a bicycle is a vehicle as defined via a dictionary, since a vehicle is NOT defined in the pistol statute.  Just because no one has been charged yet doesn't mean it can't/wont happen.  All I'm saying is it is not concrete and there is some gray in there.  I think an anti-gun prosecutor could jam someone up on this.

From OCDO:
(Not from me)

It is legal to openly carry a pistol on a bicycle. Michigan law (MCL 750.227) makes it illegal to carry a pistol in a vehicle without a CPL. Since a person rides on (not in) a bicycle, a pistol is not concealed if carried openly by the rider.

Sincerely,

Sgt. Thomas Deasy
Michigan State Police
Executive Resource Section
714 S. Harrison Rd.
East Lansing, MI 48823
(517) 336-6441

(From Me)
Mr. Jeffs,

I don't think the issue is whether bicycles are vehicles - I think they are. The question is whether a person carrying a visible pistol while riding a bicycle is carrying the pistol IN a vehicle as prohibited by MCL 750.227; in order to be guilty of carrying a concealed pistol, a non-CPL holder must be carrying the pistol IN the vehicle.

The Penal Code does not define "in" so I checked a couple dictionaries and found that as an adverb 'in' generally means "on the inside" or "within." Thus, I don't think a person carrying a plainly visible pistol (e.g., housed in a hip-holster) on a bicycle - or motorcycle - is carrying the pistol in a vehicle, so they're not guilty of violating MCL 750.227. Contrast that with a person transporting a pistol inside a storage compartment attached to a bicycle or motorcycle - in that case they are carrying the pistol IN the vehicle. I think my analysis is supported by the Court's opinion in People v. Nimeth, 236 Mich. App. 616 (1999) (discussing a pistol hidden IN a motorcycle).

Further, the purpose of MCL 750.227 "is to protect quarreling persons from being injured by an adversary who might suddenly draw and use a concealed weapon without notice." People v. Emery, 150 Mich. App. 657, 663 (1986). Charging a person on a bicycle or motorcycle would hardly be within the purpose of the statute; after all, openly carrying a pistol serves notice that the person is in possession of a pistol.

That said, I am simply relaying our position on the matter. As I've mentioned to you before, the MSP cannot give legal opinions that bind another police agency. So, if someone is concerned about overzealous officers, they should probably play it safe and not openly carry on a bicycle or motorcycle, or they should get a Concealed Pistol License.

Regards,Sgt. Thomas Deasy
Michigan State Police
Executive Resource Section
714 S. Harrison Rd.
East Lansing, MI 48823
(517) 336-6441

Family book on OPEN CARRY go to: http://www.myparentsopencarry.com/
Looking forward to having more smites than posts.  Thanks all.
The above are my opinions only.  Please seek an attorney concerning all questions of law.

Offline hamaneggs

  • Posts: 164
Re: Stopped my LEO whilst riding my bicycle
« Reply #54 on: April 26, 2011, 04:21:11 PM »
Considering the fact that LEO's,DA's and Judges can charge you for anything they want,and they know this,that it will be up to the one charged to pay a lawyer,a bond if arrested,in order to prove his or her innocence!It doesn't cost them a dime to put someone through such an incident,unless they're sued,and nothing comes out of they're pocket 99% of the time!Rights control by unconstitutionaly written vague laws!I know this.I'm still paying cash for a vague law 16 years after an incident.I'm still paying to receive my freedom from the slavery this unconstitutional government has imposed on me.Thats the simple explanation of it all!
In GOD I TRUST! Luke 22:36 "and if You don't have a sword,sell Your cloak and buy one". Nehemiah 4:17 "Those who carried materials did their work with one hand and held a weapon in the other,and each of the builders wore his sword at His side as He worked."  I AGREE! AMEN!

Offline Master Control

  • Posts: 66
  • MOC Charter Member Augusta, MI.
Re: Stopped my LEO whilst riding my bicycle
« Reply #55 on: May 05, 2011, 03:21:01 PM »

750.227d Transporting or Possessing Firearm in or Upon Motor Vehicle or Self-Propelled Vehicle Designed for Land Travel; Conditions; Violation as Misdemeanor; Penalty.
Sec. 227d.
(1) Except as otherwise permitted by law, a person shall not transport or possess in or upon a motor vehicle or any self-propelled vehicle designed for land travel a firearm, other than a pistol, unless the firearm is unloaded and is 1 or more of the following:
(a) Taken down.
(b) Enclosed in a case.
(c) Carried in the trunk of the vehicle.
(d) Inaccessible from the interior of the vehicle.

(2) A person who violates this section is guilty of a misdemeanor, punishable by imprisonment for not more than 90 days, or a fine of not more than $100.00, or both.
"Liberty's too precious a thing to be buried in books...Men should hold it up in front of them every single day of their lives and say: 'I'm free to think and to speak. My ancestors couldn't. I can. And my children will."
,,, So Mote Be

Offline METL

  • Posts: 632
Re: Stopped my LEO whilst riding my bicycle
« Reply #56 on: May 05, 2011, 03:53:36 PM »
So:

bike + pistol = yes

Bike + bazooka = no!


amirite?



Offline Master Control

  • Posts: 66
  • MOC Charter Member Augusta, MI.
Re: Stopped my LEO whilst riding my bicycle
« Reply #57 on: May 05, 2011, 04:18:49 PM »
yarite
"Liberty's too precious a thing to be buried in books...Men should hold it up in front of them every single day of their lives and say: 'I'm free to think and to speak. My ancestors couldn't. I can. And my children will."
,,, So Mote Be

Offline ocdetroit

  • Posts: 462
  • STAY STRONG (WE THE PEOPLE).
  • First Name (Displayed): THE BIG O
Re: Stopped my LEO whilst riding my bicycle
« Reply #58 on: May 05, 2011, 04:34:04 PM »
Outstanding Guys, Carry On Safely.
Open carry in Detroit
With both of them.

Offline Bronson

  • Posts: 554
Re: Stopped my LEO whilst riding my bicycle
« Reply #59 on: May 05, 2011, 07:29:21 PM »
750.227

This is the one that applies to pistols in a vehicle.

Quote
(2) A person shall not carry a pistol concealed on or about his or her person, or, whether concealed or otherwise, in a vehicle operated or occupied by the person, except in his or her dwelling house, place of business, or on other land possessed by the person, without a license to carry the pistol as provided by law and if licensed, shall not carry the pistol in a place or manner inconsistent with any restrictions upon such license.

No mention of motor vehicle.

Bronson
« Last Edit: May 05, 2011, 07:32:15 PM by Bronson »
Those who expect to reap the benefits of freedom, must, like men, undergo the fatigue of supporting it. – Thomas Paine