OC in downtown Grand Rapids during art prize?

[jatchinson]

Curious if there is anything from prohibiting me from open carrying in downtown grand rapids without a CPL? Interested in walking around the city and viewing art, but not interested in doing it alone with the amount of people that are going to be there. Any suggestions?

[TheQ]

See MCL 750.234d (google it).

See anything there that would prevent you?

Will there be beer tents?

[jatchinson]

After a further investigation into city ordinances, I believe it's defined here:

http://library.municode.com/index.aspx?clientId=12116

No person shall carry any firearm upon his or her person in any public street, alley or other place open to the public in the City of Grand Rapids unless:

(1)
The person has been issued a valid license to do so as provided by Act 372 of Michigan Public Acts of 1927, as amended (MCL 28.421 et seq.), or
(2)
All ammunition has been removed from the chamber, cylinder, clip or magazine of the firearm and the firearm has been noticeably rendered inoperable by being broken down or disassembled or is completely enclosed within a case or other similar container.

[TheQ]

After a further investigation into city ordinances, I believe it's defined here:

http://library.municode.com/index.aspx?clientId=12116

No person shall carry any firearm upon his or her person in any public street, alley or other place open to the public in the City of Grand Rapids unless:

(1)
The person has been issued a valid license to do so as provided by Act 372 of Michigan Public Acts of 1927, as amended (MCL 28.421 et seq.), or
(2)
All ammunition has been removed from the chamber, cylinder, clip or magazine of the firearm and the firearm has been noticeably rendered inoperable by being broken down or disassembled or is completely enclosed within a case or other similar container.

That ordinance is probably null and void. Google "MCL 123.1102"

[WilDChilD]

After a further investigation into city ordinances, I believe it's defined here:

http://library.municode.com/index.aspx?clientId=12116

No person shall carry any firearm upon his or her person in any public street, alley or other place open to the public in the City of Grand Rapids unless:

(1)
The person has been issued a valid license to do so as provided by Act 372 of Michigan Public Acts of 1927, as amended (MCL 28.421 et seq.), or
(2)
All ammunition has been removed from the chamber, cylinder, clip or magazine of the firearm and the firearm has been noticeably rendered inoperable by being broken down or disassembled or is completely enclosed within a case or other similar container.

Look into MI preemption. GR ordinances against firearms are invalid.

[WilDChilD]

That ordinance is probably null and void. Google "MCL 123.1102"

Damn beat me by 45 seconds.

[bigt8261]

I'm from the GR area. Do we need to see about getting this removed?

[METL]

It wouldn't hurt to try to get it removed.   Attend some city counsel meetings, etc... nothing you can do to force it though short of litigation and lawyers....

[TheQ]

I'm from the GR area. Do we need to see about getting this removed?

http://www.forums.miopencarry.org/index.php?topic=1947.msg14370#msg14370

This may be a good project for someone...?

[Bronson]

Do we need to see about getting this removed?

Why?  It's a legal ordinance.

Bronson

[TheQ]

Why?  It's a legal ordinance.

Bronson

One that's preempted by MCL 123.1102.

[jatchinson]

Ok, I'm not a lawyer, if I head downtown with my Glock 22 there's a good chance I might get haggled by police, but not arrested?

[TheQ]

Ok, I'm not a lawyer, if I head downtown with my Glock 22 there's a good chance I might get haggled by police, but not arrested?

Since you don't have a CPL I recommend:

1. You get one ASAP
2. Before you step foot off your property while carrying, you study the applicable laws inside and out. You could start by reading the stickies in the "OC Questions" sub-forum. You should then post a question in that sub-forum if you have any questions.

Bottom line: know the law before you OC, especially since you don't have a CPL.

Are you eligible to get a CPL?

[jatchinson]

No, long story short I got screwed in high school, and was convinced to plea guilty to a weapons charge without talking to a attorney. Since then I haven't had as much as a speeding ticket, and have served and been honorably discharged from the Army. I've taken CCW and advanced CCW classes, and slightly tempted to apply for a CPL and just see what happens.

[TheQ]

No, long story short I got screwed in high school, and was convinced to plea guilty to a weapons charge without talking to a attorney. Since then I haven't had as much as a speeding ticket, and have served and been honorably discharged from the Army. I've taken CCW and advanced CCW classes, and slightly tempted to apply for a CPL and just see what happens.

1. Was it a felony?
2. In either case, how long has it been?

[jatchinson]

4 years, not a felony but it's one on the bottom of the list here:

http://michigan.gov/msp/0,4643,7-123-1591_3503_4654-10926--,00.html

Weapon-free school zone violation, MCL 750.237a

[jatchinson]

I've open carried in a few places before, due to the fact I don't have a permit, the places I can carry are very limited...

[TheQ]

So it's an 8 year disqualifier, but you may be able to get it expunged after 5 years.  Talk to a lawyer for more details on expungement.  Other than that, read the OC Questions area to understand the laws before you OC.  It sounds like you know first hand how you can get tripped up by not knowing the laws properly.