Author Topic: Waiting outside the store  (Read 3000 times)

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Offline emcee101

  • Posts: 20
Waiting outside the store
« on: July 27, 2011, 06:23:13 PM »
I was going to OC on a bike ride to the grocery store with my fiance the other night, but did not know if it was legal for me to OC outside a store with a liquor license if I do not have a CPL? I never went inside, just waited outside on store property with our bikes while she went in. Any thoughts?
"That the people have a Right to mass and to bear arms; that a well regulated militia composed of the Body of the people, trained to arms, is the proper natural and safe defense of a free State..."

- George Mason

Offline Greyh Seer

  • Posts: 164
Re: Waiting outside the store
« Reply #1 on: July 27, 2011, 06:41:23 PM »
I was going to OC on a bike ride to the grocery store with my fiance the other night, but did not know if it was legal for me to OC outside a store with a liquor license if I do not have a CPL? I never went inside, just waited outside on store property with our bikes while she went in. Any thoughts?

Even in the parking lot you would be breaking the law:

Quote
750.234d Possession of firearm on certain premises prohibited; applicability; violation as
misdemeanor; penalty.
Sec. 234d. (1) Except as provided in subsection (2), a person shall not possess a firearm on the premises of
any of the following:
(a) A depository financial institution or a subsidiary or affiliate of a depository financial institution.
(b) A church or other house of religious worship.
(c) A court.
(d) A theatre.
(e) A sports arena.
(f) A day care center.
(g) A hospital.
(h) An establishment licensed under the Michigan liquor control act, Act No. 8 of the Public Acts of the
Extra Session of 1933, being sections 436.1 to 436.58 of the Michigan Compiled Laws.
(2) This section does not apply to any of the following:
(a) A person who owns, or is employed by or contracted by, an entity described in subsection (1) if the
possession of that firearm is to provide security services for that entity.
(b) A peace officer.
(c) A person licensed by this state or another state to carry a concealed weapon.
(d) A person who possesses a firearm on the premises of an entity described in subsection (1) if that
possession is with the permission of the owner or an agent of the owner of that entity.
(3) A person who violates this section is guilty of a misdemeanor punishable by imprisonment for not more
than 90 days or a fine of not more than $100.00, or both.
« Last Edit: July 27, 2011, 06:57:17 PM by Greyh Seer »
----------------------------------------
-Greyh

Offline emcee101

  • Posts: 20
Re: Waiting outside the store
« Reply #2 on: July 27, 2011, 07:10:03 PM »
Thanks Greyh, I wanna throw one more question in here. How far does the GFZ around a school extend. If we were across the street while riding and OC'ing, am I safe?
"That the people have a Right to mass and to bear arms; that a well regulated militia composed of the Body of the people, trained to arms, is the proper natural and safe defense of a free State..."

- George Mason

Offline Glock9mmOldStyle

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Re: Waiting outside the store
« Reply #3 on: July 27, 2011, 07:14:38 PM »
I was going to OC on a bike ride to the grocery store with my fiance the other night, but did not know if it was legal for me to OC outside a store with a liquor license if I do not have a CPL? I never went inside, just waited outside on store property with our bikes while she went in. Any thoughts?

Depending on what city you are in and if your PD & prosecutor are ding bats or not, you maybe charged for OCing on a bicycle :o I know it's stupid but many cities consider bikes a vehicle; thus you must have a CPL to carry while you ride; if you want to be sure you don't get jammed up by Johnny Law. ::)
"It is now more likely that a person will be the victim of a violent crime than that he will be in an auto accident. Despite this, most people readily believe that the existence of the police relieves them of the responsibility to take full measures to protect themselves."
 -Jeffrey Snyder 1993

Offline METL

  • Posts: 632
Re: Waiting outside the store
« Reply #4 on: July 28, 2011, 09:24:47 AM »
The MCL that makes vehicle carry does not define vehicle very well... so it's a gray area.  I OC on my bicycle quite often when I ride with my kids.   I feel like there's a good chance nothing will happen, but they could jam me up if they wanted to.  Also, if I saw them before they saw me, I may jump off the bike and walk it....  is it illegal to OC while pushing a bike?   :D

Offline Bronson

  • Posts: 554
Re: Waiting outside the store
« Reply #5 on: July 28, 2011, 10:32:32 AM »
How far does the GFZ around a school extend. If we were across the street while riding and OC'ing, am I safe?

Michigan does not have a GFSZ that extends beyond school property.

750.237a

Quote
. . .

(4) Except as provided in subsection (5), an individual who possesses a weapon in a weapon free school zone is guilty of a misdemeanor punishable by 1 or more of the following:

. . .

(6) As used in this section:

(b) “School” means a public, private, denominational, or parochial school offering developmental kindergarten, kindergarten, or any grade from 1 through 12.

(c) “School property” means a building, playing field, or property used for school purposes to impart instruction to children or used for functions and events sponsored by a school, except a building used primarily for adult education or college extension courses.

(d) “Weapon free school zone” means school property and a vehicle used by a school to transport students to or from school property.

The Feds define a school zone as a 1000ft from the edge of school property, but the fed law has some important exemptions.

http://www.law.cornell.edu/uscode/18/usc_sec_18_00000921----000-.html

Quote
Section a(25):

(25) The term “school zone” means—

(A) in, or on the grounds of, a public, parochial or private school; or

(B) within a distance of 1,000 feet from the grounds of a public, parochial or private school.

http://www.law.cornell.edu/uscode/18/usc_sec_18_00000922----000-.html

Section q(2):

Quote
(A) It shall be unlawful for any individual knowingly to possess a firearm that has moved in or that otherwise affects interstate or foreign commerce at a place that the individual knows, or has reasonable cause to believe, is a school zone.

(B) Subparagraph (A) does not apply to the possession of a firearm

(i) on private property not part of school grounds;

(ii) if the individual possessing the firearm is licensed to do so by the State in which the school zone is located or a political subdivision of the State, and the law of the State or political subdivision requires that, before an individual obtains such a license, the law enforcement authorities of the State or political subdivision verify that the individual is qualified under law to receive the license;

In MI a CPL and the License to Purchase/Possess meets the requirements for exemption listed in the fed law.  Which is why I don't support the repeal of the License to Purchase/Possess system unless it also comes with the repeal of registration....but that's a different issue  ;D

Bronson
« Last Edit: July 28, 2011, 10:35:52 AM by Bronson »
Those who expect to reap the benefits of freedom, must, like men, undergo the fatigue of supporting it. – Thomas Paine

Offline Christian Patriot

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  • Daniel
Re: Waiting outside the store
« Reply #6 on: July 28, 2011, 12:00:25 PM »
Does this store have a sidewalk? That is and always remains a public right-of-way or walk way. it is not their property, but open to every Tom, Dick and Harry (and Jane). When I stand and do an abortion protest, we have stood right in front of buisinesses on the sidewalk and the police can not make us move. The parking lot is their property, not the sidewalk!
If you act like a horses bodonka donk, you should be treated as such, so, be of good character!

Offline ocdetroit

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Re: Waiting outside the store
« Reply #7 on: July 28, 2011, 09:06:30 PM »
 8) +1 Carry On.
Open carry in Detroit
With both of them.

Offline emcee101

  • Posts: 20
Re: Waiting outside the store
« Reply #8 on: August 12, 2011, 07:38:26 AM »
I should have known, but I never thought that a simple question could have such a complicated/long answer. Much appreciated though, glad to have all the info. Thanks   :D
"That the people have a Right to mass and to bear arms; that a well regulated militia composed of the Body of the people, trained to arms, is the proper natural and safe defense of a free State..."

- George Mason

Offline drtodd

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Re: Re: Waiting outside the store
« Reply #9 on: August 12, 2011, 04:41:51 PM »
I should have known, but I never thought that a simple question could have such a complicated/long answer. Much appreciated though, glad to have all the info. Thanks   :D
That is why people without a cpl who wish to carry OC need to understand all the nuances of the law... which is admittedly very difficult. Because of the restrictions for non-cpl OC, eventually even those extremely opposed to putting their personal information in a database eventually end up getting a cpl... it makes carry much more easy. The real travesty is that those 18-20 years old are essentially treated as second-class citizens.
"The claim and exercise of a constitutional right cannot be converted into a crime." Miller v. U.S. 230 F 486 at 489

"Where rights as secured by the Constitution are involved, there can be no rule making or legislation which will abrogate them." Miranda v. Ariz., 384 U.S. 436 at 491 (1966).