Question by a LAW

[Michhunter]

So I understand it right the own of a business that has a liquor license can over ride the state law..... So if I know who owns the store and he says I could oc in the store dose that mean I can oc without a cpl?

[Michhunter]

I was trying to fix it so the title would a Question about a law...... sorry cant figure out how to change it

[rvd4now]

So I understand it right the own of a business that has a liquor license can over ride the state law..... So if I know who owns the store and he says I could oc in the store dose that mean I can oc without a cpl?

im guessing yes, that would be like a bar owner telling you u can cc with a cpl. at the end of the day pp out ranks state laws

[METL]

You can OC with owner permission in a place with a liquor license.  Get permission in writing and on company letterhead.

[autosurgeon]

You can OC with owner permission in a place with a liquor license.  Get permission in writing and on company letterhead.

Yep this!

Sent from my HTC Inspire 4G via Tapatalk

[CV67PAT]

im guessing yes, that would be like a bar owner telling you u can cc with a cpl. at the end of the day pp out ranks state laws

Can a bar owner allow a licensed person to cc?

[autosurgeon]

hmmm good question Pat ... I tend to think no.... I know that I did research that at one point ... I will look through my records on OC and see what I can dig up.

[CV67PAT]

I don't think so either. I have a friend that says he'll let me in his bar. But I'm not certain it's lawful. So I don't.

 I know all the 1%ers carry cc in there. But what do they care? Most of them probably can't even lawfully possess a gun. And they're probably the ones that whine when they see me with mine in there. Which has happened a couple of times.

[Bronson]

Can a bar owner allow a licensed person to cc?

I'd say no.

28.425o lists the places a CPL holder may not carry concealed and any applicable exemptions.  The only place on that list where you may be given permission to CC is in a place of worship.  The controlling body of NO other restricted place is given legal authority to allow CC.  Just like I cannot allow an UNlicensed person to CC on my property because UNlicensed CC may only be done on property that is owned or controlled (leased, etc) by the UNlicensed carrier.

This is one the things that irks me about the whole "private property rights rule" argument.  All of the places listed in 28.425o could be PRIVATE businesses yet the legislature has taken it upon themselves to decide that regardless of the owner's wishes of these PRIVATELY operated businesses it shall be illegal to possess a legal licensed concealed pistol within their establishment.

One of the big ones that comes to mind is dorm rooms or classrooms of a college or university.  Hillsdale College is run completely free of gov't money.  They don't even allow their students to pay with gov't grants or loans.  They are completely and utterly private.  They also have a strong background in teaching the Constitution and yet they cannot, on their own privately owned and operated campus, allow their students, that are licensed, to CC in a classroom or dormitory.

When people tell me that the gov't cannot mandate that a privately owned business allow legal firearms carry I ask why then can the gov't restrict a privately owned business from allowing a form of legal firearms carry?

Bronson

[venator]

im guessing yes, that would be like a bar owner telling you u can cc with a cpl. at the end of the day pp out ranks state laws

Can a bar owner allow a licensed person to cc?

Only himself and his employees if they have a CPL.  Customers can only OC.

(d) A bar or tavern licensed under the Michigan liquor control code of 1998, 1998 PA 58, MCL 436.1101
to 436.2303, where the primary source of income of the business is the sale of alcoholic liquor by the glass
and consumed on the premises. This subdivision does not apply to an owner or employee of the business. The
Michigan liquor control commission shall develop and make available to holders of licenses under the
Michigan liquor control code of 1998, 1998 PA 58, MCL 436.1101 to 436.2303, an appropriate sign stating
that "This establishment prohibits patrons from carrying concealed weapons". The owner or operator of an
establishment licensed under the Michigan liquor control code of 1998, 1998 PA 58, MCL 436.1101 to
436.2303, may, but is not required to, post the sign developed under this subdivision. A record made available
by an establishment licensed under the Michigan liquor control code of 1998, 1998 PA 58, MCL 436.1101 to
436.2303, necessary to enforce this subdivision is exempt from disclosure under the freedom of information
act, 1976 PA 442, MCL 15.231 to 15.246.

[drtodd]

im guessing yes, that would be like a bar owner telling you u can cc with a cpl. at the end of the day pp out ranks state laws

Can a bar owner allow a licensed person to cc?

Only himself and his employees if they have a CPL.  Customers can only OC.

(d) A bar or tavern licensed under the Michigan liquor control code of 1998, 1998 PA 58, MCL 436.1101
to 436.2303, where the primary source of income of the business is the sale of alcoholic liquor by the glass
and consumed on the premises. This subdivision does not apply to an owner or employee of the business. The
Michigan liquor control commission shall develop and make available to holders of licenses under the
Michigan liquor control code of 1998, 1998 PA 58, MCL 436.1101 to 436.2303, an appropriate sign stating
that "This establishment prohibits patrons from carrying concealed weapons". The owner or operator of an
establishment licensed under the Michigan liquor control code of 1998, 1998 PA 58, MCL 436.1101 to
436.2303, may, but is not required to, post the sign developed under this subdivision. A record made available
by an establishment licensed under the Michigan liquor control code of 1998, 1998 PA 58, MCL 436.1101 to
436.2303, necessary to enforce this subdivision is exempt from disclosure under the freedom of information
act, 1976 PA 442, MCL 15.231 to 15.246.

If he paid you a dollar for coming through the door or sweeping the floor for a few minutes, are you an employee? Bet you'd have to have some paperwork of some sort, though. Has anyone ever done this? Do you have to do anything official to make someone an employee?

[CV67PAT]

How about volunteers? Think they could be given permission to CC?

Side note: I was at the same bar a few nights ago. A 1%er tried baiting me into a "discussion" by talking loudly behind my back to his buddy. The large buddy kept trying to shut up the little kid. The buddy was having no part of it. I merely ignored him.

I think the little guy was having caliber envy.

[TheQ]

Anyone volunteering in a for profit venture or working for less than minimum wage is causing their employer to violate provisions of the Federal Labor law (yet another stupid law)

[venator]

How about volunteers? Think they could be given permission to CC?

Side note: I was at the same bar a few nights ago. A 1%er tried baiting me into a "discussion" by talking loudly behind my back to his buddy. The large buddy kept trying to shut up the little kid. The buddy was having no part of it. I merely ignored him.

I think the little guy was having caliber envy.

He is an Australian football player.