Question on laws pertaining to under 21

[neoexigent]

Hey guys, I've got a question I was hoping someone might be able to help with.

I've done some research on Michigan's gun laws, and as I understand it, an 18 yr. old can legally own a handgun if the gun is transferred to the individual by another individual, such as a family member, rather than being bought from a dealer.

As most of the research I've done suggests the above is true, my question is, would an 18 yr. old who legally owns a handgun only be allowed to transport the gun to and from a shooting range?

When I was looking at Michigan's laws, it almost looked like the only time such a person would be allowed transport the weapon would be if they were going directly to or from a shooting range.

Wondering if this is true, or if I was reading the law incorrectly?

Thanks everyone.

[Glock9mmOldStyle]

Once the person (you?) obtains a Purchase Permit that is your license to possess and carry that pistol OPENLY. Anyone who meets the requirements no felonies or certain misdemeanors and 18yrs or above in age can obtain a purchase permit once you pass a 10 question test. HINT you must report a stolen pistol within 5days to the police Without a CPL there are many places that you cannot go while open carrying see MSP # 86 below for the cliff notes version -> Banks, schools,  {MCL sect. 28} until you can  obtain a CPL later. Read section 28.422 & 750.234 to see the difference between PP & CPL.
Use this link for firearms laws from MSP site http://www.legislature.mi.gov/documents/publications/firearms.pdf

MSP legal update #86 http://www.michigan.gov/documents/msp/MSP_Legal_Update_No._86_2_336854_7.pdf

Handy pocket cards (printable) to keep you or whoever this is about out of trouble
http://web.me.com/joshtish/Offlimits_Front.pdf    [Shows places off limits without CPL] *Note you cannot legally even park on the property of a place that has a liquor license this means krogers, Meijers etc... if you have your gun in transport mode park on the nearest public street. (I know MI laws are crazy).
http://web.me.com/joshtish/Offlimits_Back.pdf [Shows places off limits with CPL]

Now to make things even goofier an 18yr. old can own a pistol and carry it but legally cannot buy handgun ammunition? So that becomes a challenge for them.  That should keep you busy for a while

Good luck and have fun & be safe. Know the laws inside out before you open carry.

[Glock9mmOldStyle]

Sorry double tap 

[neoexigent]

Thanks for all the info. that's very helpful. However, I'm still not sure about my original question, which was: if I legally own the handgun, but do not have a CPL, (because I'm 18), where can I transport the gun?  Here's a section copied from the MSP site: 

"1.  If I do not have a CPL permit, may I transport my pistol in a motor vehicle? 

MCL 750.231a   A person is now permitted to transport a pistol for a lawful purpose if the owner or occupant of the vehicle is the registered owner of the firearm and the pistol is unloaded and in a closed case in the trunk of the vehicle. If the vehicle does not have a trunk, the pistol may be in the passenger compartment of the vehicle unloaded and inaccessible to the occupants of the vehicle. 

A 'lawful purpose' includes:

    * While en route to or from a hunting or target shooting area.
    * While transporting a pistol to or from home or place of business and a place of repair.
    * While moving goods from one place of residence or business to another place of residence or business.
    * While transporting a licensed pistol to or from a law enforcement agency for the purpose of having a safety inspection performed (registering the pistol) or to have a law enforcement official take possession of the pistol.
    * While en route to or from home or place of business to a gun show or place of purchase or sale.
    * While en route to or from home to a public shooting facility or land where the discharge of firearms is permitted.
    *
      While en route to or from home to private property where the pistol is to be used as permitted by law, rule, regulation, or local ordinance. "


As I read that, I, as an 18 yr old handgun owner, would not be allowed to transport the firearm in my vehicle just as a means of protection wherever I go, it would have to meet the certain criteria listed above, such as going to a shooting range, gun show, or to private property, etc.

One of my scenarios that I'm trying to pin down answers on is an overnight road trip to a certain well-known amusement park in Ohio, and whether or not it would be lawful for me to have a handgun stowed away in my vehicle during that trip. I have yet to look up Ohio's firearm laws though.

[Bronson]

MCL 750.231a   A person is now permitted to transport a pistol for a lawful purpose if the owner or occupant of the vehicle is the registered owner of the firearm and the pistol is unloaded and in a closed case in the trunk of the vehicle. If the vehicle does not have a trunk, the pistol may be in the passenger compartment of the vehicle unloaded and inaccessible to the occupants of the vehicle. 

A 'lawful purpose' includes:

Michigan Constitution, Article I section 6:

Every person has a right to keep and bear arms for the defense of himself and the state.

According to our Constitution self defense is a lawful purpose.  Also the law states "lawful purpose includes."  The addition of the word "includes" indicates that the given list is a subset of a larger set.

Bronson, who is not a lawyer and is not giving legal advice.

[Christian Patriot]

Neo... No, you are not alowed in Michigan to have your gun in the passenger compartment of your car for self protection without a CPL. If you have a truck, you can have it in the passenger compartment unloaded and it MUST be inaccessible!
Daniel

[TheQ]

If you're talking about Cedar Point:

1. I'm not familiar with Ohio laws
2. There's probably better places to do your "OC teething" than another state in a huge amusement park.

[Bronson]

We need to clarify some defintions to continue this coversation.

When you say "transport" do you mean unloaded, cased, and in your trunk or do you mean loaded, in the passenger compartment and accessible?

Around these parts we typically use "transport" to mean the former and "carry" or "car carry" for the latter.

As has been stated, without a CPL there is no way for you to legally carry a loaded gun accessible to the passengers of the vehicle.

Bronson

[neoexigent]

Sorry guys, I should have been more specific. Yes, I am aware of the way that  MI law requires a non-CPL holder to transport a handgun (unloaded, cased, and inaccessible). So when I say transport, I'm talking about the way it's supposed to be done according to law.

Secondly, I'm not really talking about OC either. I don't really plan on OC'ing, unless some unusual situation came up, until I get my CPL.

So, when I'm asking these questions, I'm not asking about OC'ing, I'm simply wondering if it's lawful for me to have the handgun (legally and properly) stowed in my vehicle while going about my daily business. It sounds like I'd have to be extremely careful and selective though, since a lot of places I normally go (grocery stores, University parking lot, etc.) have liquor licenses, or are off-limits. 

I realize the trip to Cedar Point is a whole other issue, that would depend on Ohio's laws, I just thought someone might be familiar with the carry-over (or lack thereof) of firearm laws between the states.

[yance]

As far as just driving around with it in your trunk...bad idea.  There are a lot of places you CANNOT have a firearm if you do not have a CPL. 

750.234d Possession of firearm on certain premises prohibited; applicability; violation as misdemeanor; penalty.

Sec. 234d.

(1) Except as provided in subsection (2), a person shall not possess a firearm on the premises of any of the following:

(a) A depository financial institution or a subsidiary or affiliate of a depository financial institution.

(b) A church or other house of religious worship.

(c) A court.

(d) A theatre.

(e) A sports arena.

(f) A day care center.

(g) A hospital.

(h) An establishment licensed under the Michigan liquor control act, Act No. 8 of the Public Acts of the Extra Session of 1933, being sections 436.1 to 436.58 of the Michigan Compiled Laws.

(2) This section does not apply to any of the following:

(a) A person who owns, or is employed by or contracted by, an entity described in subsection (1) if the possession of that firearm is to provide security services for that entity.

(b) A peace officer.

(c) A person licensed by this state or another state to carry a concealed weapon.

(d) A person who possesses a firearm on the premises of an entity described in subsection (1) if that possession is with the permission of the owner or an agent of the owner of that entity.

(3) A person who violates this section is guilty of a misdemeanor punishable by imprisonment for not more than 90 days or a fine of not more than $100.00, or both.

With emphasis added to (h)...anywhere, and I mean ANYWHERE that SELLS alcohol falls within that description.  Now to make it worse, there are places that are licensed in MI to sell alcohol but do not   even sell it.  So example, gas stations, walmart, meijer, any grocery store typically, most restaurants...all fall within (h) of that statute if you do not have a CPL.  So if youre interested in just having it in your car while you drive around town and run errands, not only does it not make any sense if youre never going to carry it, but you run the risk of violating this section many times over.

[TheQ]

Also, I haven't look at the list lately, but I think a violation of 750.234d will disqualify you from getting a CPL for a few years...

Oh look, it does.

Possessing a firearm on prohibited premises, MCL 750.234d

[yance]

So more or less for your intentions on transportation, its probably best that you leave it at home.  I honestly cant make sense of why you would just want to drive around with it in your trunk anyways.  You only have a few years to wait until you can get your CPL so just worry about transporting when youre going shooting.  Its a thin line and one thats too easily broken, so if I were you I wouldnt press my luck with it.  Leave it at home and do your running around.

[CV67PAT]

So more or less for your intentions on transportation, its probably best that you leave it at home.  I honestly cant make sense of why you would just want to drive around with it in your trunk anyways.  You only have a few years to wait until you can get your CPL so just worry about transporting when youre going shooting.  Its a thin line and one thats too easily broken, so if I were you I wouldnt press my luck with it.  Leave it at home and do your running around.

You should leave your gun home also. I don't believe you have a good enough understanding of firearm laws to be transporting or possessing a firearm.

As Bronson has said, two distinctly different conditions are presented here. Transporting and possession.

A properly stowed and unloaded pistol is being transported. Federal transportation laws also apply under interstate transportation of firearms. So a firearm that is unloaded, separate from ammunition, in a container or case designed for the firearm, in the trunk is properly being transported. And it can be "transported" even in those places specified in 750.234d, because 750.234d specifically states "possession".

Possession on the other hand is carrying. Accessible in the passenger compartment of a vehicle is also possessing. So an unloaded gun in a case being carried is being "possessed."

Prior to the "lawful purpose" inclusion in the statute, the "transportation only to and from" was used to elicit a plea bargain from a more serious charge.

Take some time to learn the laws.

[scot623]

A lot of drug dealers get busted for possession when the dope is in the trunk...

I've always taught a gun in the trunk is in your possession. I'd love to be wrong.

[CV67PAT]

I am just going by terms used in the firearms statutes. Transporting and possession are not used interchangeably in any of those statutes.

I am not familiar with drug laws. No need to be.

[neoexigent]

So more or less for your intentions on transportation, its probably best that you leave it at home.  I honestly cant make sense of why you would just want to drive around with it in your trunk anyways.  You only have a few years to wait until you can get your CPL so just worry about transporting when youre going shooting.  Its a thin line and one thats too easily broken, so if I were you I wouldnt press my luck with it.  Leave it at home and do your running around.

Why drive around with it in your trunk? I can think of one good reason: the same reason anybody carries one on their hip...to have it in case it's needed. Granted, an unloaded and stowed away gun isn't easily or quickly accessible, but you never know when the crap is going to hit the fan. The chance that you may need it to protect yourself or loved ones is the reason that any law-abiding citizen transports or carries a handgun.

Unfortunately, it appears that MI law has very little room for me to do that currently, whether in a vehicle, or OCing. I guess at this point, the only practical usage I'd get from a handgun would be practicing at the range, not as a tool of self-defense. Guess I just have to wait a few more years.

I do appreciate all the answers and help though, I think I have a better understanding of the laws now.

[CV67PAT]

You can still OC, with some restrictions. Those restrictions are what I encourage you to learn and know. OC is the only way to lawfully possess between the ages of 18 and 21. At least you're considering carrying a real gun.

[yance]

and regardless of the definition of possession, I'm sure its not worth taking the risk.

[CV67PAT]

and regardless of the definition of possession, I'm sure its not worth taking the risk.

Definitions of terms within statutes have meaning. knowing these meanings is what allows us to conform to the laws and conduct ourselves lawfully.

maybe if you stay under a rock you will be safe. The rest of us will continue to take the risks for you. Once it's safe you can come out and join us.

[scot623]

Play nice.