place to carry question...

[Brian1921]

ok im new to the site.. and i cant seem to get a straight answer anywhere.. I have my cpl.. and i work as a armed guard. just wondering if anyone knew if it was legal for me to open carry in a ice arena. i know that i cant conceal there but i thought i heard that it was ok to open carry in some places that were under the pfz. i would like to clear this up for my own knowledge. just because even knowing 95% of the officers that would show up wont cover my butt! haha thanks a ton


Brian

[Brian1921]

Anyone have anything for me on this one?

[TheQ]

Google : MSP Legal Update 86

For legal info about OC. You can also read the stickies in this thread.

Do you provide armed security for said ice facility?

[northofnowhere]

Straight answer.

You can openly carry a handgun there based on the information you have provided.

You can NOT open carry there without a CPL, as it is a "sports arena" and listed in Sec. 750.234d
** 750.234d Possession of firearm on certain premises prohibited; commonly called Non CPL Holder Pistol Free Zones**

You can not conceal there is the seating capacity is above 2500, and it is clearly a sports arena.
** 28.425o commonly called CPL Pistol Free Zones**

You are exempt from 750.234d as you are a CPL holder.

You may have employer related issues.  You did not say you work there as a security guard, and that could be an issue, or help your issue.  You simply mention you are a security guard but do not specify if you are an employee of the arena.

-jason r.

[Brian1921]

I do work for the ice arena.. but no not as a guard there.. the whole reason I ask is because there is a alumni game that I was asked to help out my friends with and won't have time to go home and change to be at my guard job. I know sounds dumb but idont like leaving my guns in my car.. I live in saginaw haha

[Brian1921]

I called the MSP post to double check.. and they said they wouldn't do it just bc of ppl calling them.. but said it was legal.. thanks for the info guys

[TheQ]

I called the MSP post to double check.. and they said they wouldn't do it just bc of ppl calling them.. but said it was legal.. thanks for the info guys

MSP Legal Update 86

[CV67PAT]

I called the MSP post to double check.. and they said they wouldn't do it just bc of ppl calling them.. but said it was legal.. thanks for the info guys

I called the Dairy Queen down the street and got the same answer. J/K

But you get the idea. Police (and the Dairy Queen) don't always give good information about the laws. Lots of LEOs doing CPL training are known to give bogus OC info. Simply because, like the gal at the Dairy Queen, they just don't like it.

[TERMINATOR]

I called the MSP post to double check.. and they said they wouldn't do it just bc of ppl calling them.. but said it was legal.. thanks for the info guys

I called the Dairy Queen down the street and got the same answer. J/K

But you get the idea. Police (and the Dairy Queen) don't always give good information about the laws. Lots of LEOs doing CPL training are known to give bogus OC info. Simply because, like the gal at the Dairy Queen, they just don't like it.

The Muskegon Co. Sheriff spoke at our CPL class and he basically discouraged it.   He even included that if you look scary with swastika tatoos and piercings etc you are asking for trouble if you OC because you are going to scare people LOL.  He implied that you were walking a fine line even if you didn't look scary and you shouldn't be surprised to be "put on the ground by LEOs" if you insist on open carry in crowds like at town festivals etc.

If I knew then  what I know now I probably would have asked questions about what he was saying but that was before I found MOC and learned the truth about open carry unfortunately

[Super Trucker]

The Muskegon Co. Sheriff spoke at our CPL class and he basically discouraged it.   He even included that if you look scary with swastika tatoos and piercings etc you are asking for trouble if you OC because you are going to scare people LOL.  He implied that you were walking a fine line even if you didn't look scary and you shouldn't be surprised to be "put on the ground by LEOs" if you insist on open carry in crowds like at town festivals etc.

If I knew then  what I know now I probably would have asked questions about what he was saying but that was before I found MOC and learned the truth about open carry unfortunately

You could let the person/company that held the CPL class that the cop THEY PAID to give the legal section, is not the best person for the job. Maybe the next group of students might get accurate info from a different person.

[TheQ]

The problem is -- a CPL Class is a commodity.  People don't demand quality.  They demand a low price and "now".

When quality instructors become in demand -- you will see them.

Most people who take the class just want the piece of paper that gets them their blue card -- sad but true.

It's kind of like medical M.

Doctor: does your knee hurt?
Patient: No
Doctor: let me check the reflexes in your knee (hammer -- BANG!)
Doctor: does your knee hurt?
Patient: Hell yes!  You just hit it!
Doctor: Excellent, take this note to get your MM card.  You can get your script filled at the counter up front.

[TERMINATOR]

The problem is -- a CPL Class is a commodity.  People don't demand quality.  They demand a low price and "now".

When quality instructors become in demand -- you will see them.

Most people who take the class just want the piece of paper that gets them their blue card -- sad but true.

It's kind of like medical M.

Doctor: does your knee hurt?
Patient: No
Doctor: let me check the reflexes in your knee (hammer -- BANG!)
Doctor: does your knee hurt?
Patient: Hell yes!  You just hit it!
Doctor: Excellent, take this note to get your MM card.  You can get your script filled at the counter up front.

This is exactly why I intend to become a NRA Licensed Instructor so I can give the classes.   I have been around guns all my life and thought my CPL glass was a complete joke but it was a means to an end.   But what was I gonna do?  Beyotch about it and give the powers that be a reason to question the validity of my certificate just because I could have taught the class better than the guy giving it???

It didn't bother me because there really was nothing in the class I didn't know when it came to handguns and the only thing I really learned where the PFZs and the requirements to inform a LEO of my gun on a stop...and even those I could have learned with a little google reserch.

But I feel sorry for someone that truly was new to guns if they were depending on that class to teach them more than the legal requirements.

I will give a class that truly teaches people about the guns, their use in self defense and then make sure my "legal expert" has an open mind about Open Carry.

It was the sorry discussion of Open Carry in my CPL class that led me to want to do more research to find what the real deal is and which ultimately lead me to MOC so that was about the best thing that happened to me as a result of the class.

[TheQ]

The problem is -- a CPL Class is a commodity.  People don't demand quality.  They demand a low price and "now".

When quality instructors become in demand -- you will see them.

Most people who take the class just want the piece of paper that gets them their blue card -- sad but true.

It's kind of like medical M.

Doctor: does your knee hurt?
Patient: No
Doctor: let me check the reflexes in your knee (hammer -- BANG!)
Doctor: does your knee hurt?
Patient: Hell yes!  You just hit it!
Doctor: Excellent, take this note to get your MM card.  You can get your script filled at the counter up front.

This is exactly why I intend to become a NRA Licensed Instructor so I can give the classes.   I have been around guns all my life and thought my CPL glass was a complete joke but it was a means to an end.   But what was I gonna do?  Beyotch about it and have them question the validity of my certificate just because I could have taught the class better than the guy giving it???

It didn't bother me because there really was nothing in the class I didn't know when it came to handguns and the only thing I really learned where the PFZs and the requirements to inform a LEO of my gun on a stop...and even those I could have learned with a little google reserch.

But I feel sorry for someone that truly was new to guns if they were depending on that class to teach them more than the legal requirements.

I will give a class that truly teaches people about the guns, their use in self defense and then make sure my state expert has an open mind about Open Carry.

It was the sorry discussion of Open Carry in my CPL class that led me to want to do more research to find what the real deal is and which ultimately lead me to MOC so that was about the best thing that happened to me as a result of the class.

Pt 1: Many people are in a similar boat -- even people new to handguns.

Pt 2: Most people won't go the extra mile to research -- they'll just blindly believe what they are told (or not pay attention)

[TERMINATOR]

"Pt 2: Most people won't go the extra mile to research -- they'll just blindly believe what they are told (or not pay attention)"

Yea, I knew you could open carry like when I was hunting etc up north so it peaked my interest when the instructor mentioned "Open Carry" being legal in Michigan in passing as part of his conversation on concealed carry and that peaked my interest to know really where the lines where with open carry.

So the Muskegon Co. Sheriff comes in to do his talk and when he was finished and opened the floor to questions, I ask about OC and what rules were and he got this pained look on his face like "God, why did somebody have to bring THAT up" and basically he acknowledged it was legal on public property like a park but went on to discourage it as much as possible as described above ("don't be surprised when a bunch of cops show up and do your really want to deal with that?" etc.) and all but said don't do it at any large gatherings and mentioned the incident at the Grand Haven Coast Guard Festival where someone was OCing and it caused a scene.

He of course never mentioned you could OC in private businesses but that the business owner can ask you to leave or went through the OC PFZs and their nuances vs. the CC PFZ.

That's what I get for asking an LEO to explain the rules of OC to me LOL

But it was the fact that he was so "murky" about it and really didn't want to discuss it that really got me interested to understand what the deal was and what I could and couldn't do...so in the end it was the fact that he was coping an attitude about it that got me to start digging into OC in Michigan and eventually lead me to MOC the organization.

So "Thanks" to everyone in MOC!

[ocdetroit]

Just wait to the CPL Holders get a chance to take that 1 day class ( hrs, for the excempt of some of the PFZ's. I feel alot of questions will be asked about OC'ing then also. Carry On  .

[Super Trucker]

<SNIP>
So the Muskegon Co. Sheriff comes in to do his talk and when he was finished and opened the floor to questions, I ask about OC and what rules were and he got this pained look on his face like "God, why did somebody have to bring THAT up" and basically he acknowledged it was legal on public property like a park but went on to discourage it as much as possible as described above ("don't be surprised when a bunch of cops show up and do your really want to deal with that?" etc.) and all but said don't do it at any large gatherings and mentioned the incident at the Grand Haven Coast Guard Festival where someone was OCing and it caused a scene.
<SNIP>

.
 
It is a shame you were not up to speed at the time of your class or you could have asked him what the outcome of "the scene" was.
Getting a picture of the look on his face when he realized that you knew that the cops not knowing the laws they are paid to uphold were the actual cause of "the scene" would have been priceless.

[TERMINATOR]

<SNIP>
So the Muskegon Co. Sheriff comes in to do his talk and when he was finished and opened the floor to questions, I ask about OC and what rules were and he got this pained look on his face like "God, why did somebody have to bring THAT up" and basically he acknowledged it was legal on public property like a park but went on to discourage it as much as possible as described above ("don't be surprised when a bunch of cops show up and do your really want to deal with that?" etc.) and all but said don't do it at any large gatherings and mentioned the incident at the Grand Haven Coast Guard Festival where someone was OCing and it caused a scene.
<SNIP>

.
 
It is a shame you were not up to speed at the time of your class or you could have asked him what the outcome of "the scene" was.
Getting a picture of the look on his face when he realized that you knew that the cops not knowing the laws they are paid to uphold were the actual cause of "the scene" would have been priceless.

Yeeeeeep.   Wish I knew then what I know now...I would have made him squirm a lot.

[drtodd]

<SNIP>
So the Muskegon Co. Sheriff comes in to do his talk and when he was finished and opened the floor to questions, I ask about OC and what rules were and he got this pained look on his face like "God, why did somebody have to bring THAT up" and basically he acknowledged it was legal on public property like a park but went on to discourage it as much as possible as described above ("don't be surprised when a bunch of cops show up and do your really want to deal with that?" etc.) and all but said don't do it at any large gatherings and mentioned the incident at the Grand Haven Coast Guard Festival where someone was OCing and it caused a scene.
<SNIP>

.
 
It is a shame you were not up to speed at the time of your class or you could have asked him what the outcome of "the scene" was.
Getting a picture of the look on his face when he realized that you knew that the cops not knowing the laws they are paid to uphold were the actual cause of "the scene" would have been priceless.

Yeeeeeep.   Wish I knew then what I know now...I would have made him squirm a lot.

Muskegon County board even suspended a carrier's CPL a few years ago when an OCer carried at a hospital. AFAIK, by the time he got home, he had a call to come back and pick it up. It is better now but not as good as it should be.