Bicycles and Fireams

[Jon Mire]

i have rode bikes for a majority of my life and built a few custom ones from the ground up for expedition rides. it took alot of research of what is a bicycle vs other wheeled vehicles are. Many of the bikes i rode passed motor vehicles while at speed which made me concerned of tickets and such while on human power. so i decided to share some more of my existing knowledge. this is my endeavor of learning how guns and bikes can/cannot work together that i would like to share with everyone.

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If you add a gas motor to a bicycle it is a moped the rules change to vehicle, and if over 50cc, motorcycle laws apply. In an electric assist is added vehicle law does not apply because of its hp rating. therefore the bicycle is an assisting the rider which requires the rider to provide human power.

part one... transport, definition, and general laws.

THE MICHIGAN PENAL CODE (EXCERPT)
Act 328 of 1931


750.227d Transporting or possessing firearm in or upon motor vehicle or self-propelled vehicle designed for land travel; conditions; violation as misdemeanor; penalty.
Sec. 227d.

(1) Except as otherwise permitted by law, a person shall not transport or possess in or upon a motor vehicle or any self-propelled vehicle designed for land travel a firearm, other than a pistol, unless the firearm is unloaded and is 1 or more of the following:

(a) Taken down.

(b) Enclosed in a case.

(c) Carried in the trunk of the vehicle.

(d) Inaccessible from the interior of the vehicle.

(2) A person who violates this section is guilty of a misdemeanor, punishable by imprisonment for not more than 90 days, or a fine of not more than $100.00, or both.


History: Add. 1981, Act 103, Eff. Mar. 31, 1982


© 2009 Legislative Council, State of Michigan

it would appear pistols are exempt as long as they are not concealed. nothing is required to transport a pistol on a bicycle if i am reading this right.

see also http://forum.opencarry.org/forums/showthread.php?38471-Open-carry-on-a-bicycle
               http://forums.michiganopencarry.org/index.php?topic=1673.0

quotes from http://www.legislature.mi.gov/(S(zdo3luny5tnls045hmiqyovw))/documents/mcl/pdf/mcl-chap257.pdf

257.4 “Bicycle” defined.
Rendered Monday, May 21, 2012 Page 2 Michigan Compiled Laws Complete Through PA 86 and includes
89-127 & 135-137 of 2012
Ó Legislative Council, State of Michigan Courtesy of www.legislature.mi.gov
Sec. 4. “Bicycle” means a device propelled by human power upon which a person may ride, having either
2 or 3 wheels in a tandem or tricycle arrangement, all of which are over 14 inches in diameter.
History: 1949, Act 300, Eff. Sept. 23, 1949;¾Am. 1971, Act 151, Imd. Eff. Nov. 22, 1971;¾Am. 1975, Act 209, Imd. Eff. Aug. 25,
1975;¾Am. 1976, Act 439, Imd. Eff. Jan. 13, 1977.

so, a bicycle by definition is not self propelled. it has to use a human to propel it.

but be careful you can still get a ticket if the officer is having a bad day and your riding in the road....
257.648 Signals for stopping or turning; violation as civil infraction.
Sec. 648. (1) The driver of a vehicle or bicycle upon a highway, before stopping or turning from a direct
line, shall first see that the stopping or turning can be made in safety and shall give a signal as required in this
section.
(2) A signal required in this section shall be given either by means of the hand and arm in the manner
specified in this section, or by a mechanical or electrical signal device which conveys an intelligible signal or
warning to other highway traffic, except as otherwise provided in subsection (3). When a signal is given by
means of the hand and arm, the driver shall indicate his or her intention to stop or turn by extending his hand
and arm from and beyond the left side of the vehicle and signal as follows:
(a) Left turn ..... hand and arm extended horizontally.
(b) Right turn ..... hand and arm extended upward.
(c) Stop or decrease speed ..... hand and arm extended downward.
(3) A commercial motor vehicle, other than those in transit from a manufacturer to a dealer, in use on a
highway shall be equipped with, and required signal shall be given by, a signal lamp or mechanical signal
device when the distance from the center of the top of the steering post to the left outside limit of the body,
cab, or load of the commercial motor vehicle exceeds 24 inches, or when the distance from the center of the
top of the steering post to the rear limit of the body or load of the commercial vehicle exceeds 14 feet. The
measurement from steering post to rear limit shall apply to a single vehicle or combination of vehicles.
(4) A person who violates this section is responsible for a civil infraction.
History: 1949, Act 300, Eff. Sept. 23, 1949;¾Am. 1954, Act 181, Eff. Aug. 13, 1954;¾Am. 1958, Act 166, Eff. Sept. 13, 1958;¾
Am. 1974, Act 334, Imd. Eff. Dec. 17, 1974;¾Am. 1978, Act 510, Eff. Aug. 1, 1979.



bicycles are allowed on sidewalks. but,

257.660c Operation of bicycle upon sidewalk or pedestrian crosswalk.
Sec. 660c. (1) An individual operating a bicycle upon a sidewalk or a pedestrian crosswalk shall yield the
right-of-way to pedestrians and shall give an audible signal before overtaking and passing a pedestrian.
(2) An individual shall not operate a bicycle upon a sidewalk or a pedestrian crosswalk if that operation is
prohibited by an official traffic control device.
(3) An individual lawfully operating a bicycle upon a sidewalk or a pedestrian crosswalk has all of the
rights and responsibilities applicable to a pedestrian using that sidewalk or crosswalk.
History: Add. 2006, Act 339, Imd. Eff. Aug. 15, 2006.



OPERATION OF BICYCLES, MOTORCYCLES AND TOY VEHICLES
257.656 Violations of MCL 257.656 to 257.661a as civil infractions; duty of parent or
guardian; regulations applicable to bicycles and motorcycles.
Sec. 656. (1) A person who violates any of sections 656 to 661a is responsible for a civil infraction.
(2) The parent of a child or the guardian of a ward shall not authorize or knowingly permit the child or
ward to violate this chapter.
(3) The regulations applicable to bicycles under sections 656 to 662 shall apply when a bicycle is operated
upon a highway or upon a path set aside for the exclusive use of bicycles, subject to those exceptions stated in
sections 656 to 662.
(4) The regulations applicable to motorcycles in sections 656 to 662 shall be considered supplementary to
other provisions of this chapter governing the operation of motorcycles.
History: 1949, Act 300, Eff. Sept. 23, 1949;¾Am. 1978, Act 510, Eff. Aug. 1, 1979.
257.657 Rights and duties of persons riding bicycle, electric personal assistive mobility
device, or moped or operating low-speed vehicle.
Sec. 657. Each person riding a bicycle, electric personal assistive mobility device, or moped or operating a
low-speed vehicle upon a roadway has all of the rights and is subject to all of the duties applicable to the
driver of a vehicle by this chapter, except as to special regulations in this article and except as to the
provisions of this chapter which by their nature do not have application.
History: 1949, Act 300, Eff. Sept. 23, 1949;¾Am. 1976, Act 439, Imd. Eff. Jan. 13, 1977;¾Am. 2000, Act 82, Eff. July 1, 2000;¾
Am. 2002, Act 494, Imd. Eff. July 3, 2002.

etc....... since the helmet law is gone now it is not required where applicable.

also take note of:
257.660 Electric personal assistive mobility device, low-speed vehicle, or moped; operation;
limitations; applicability to police officer; regulation by local government; prohibitions;
regulation by department of natural resources.

"SELF PROPELLED" means some for of motor that is part of the vehicle that definition is somewhere in the S.O.S definitions.

257.33 “Motor vehicle” defined.
Sec. 33. “Motor vehicle” means every vehicle that is self-propelled, but for purposes of chapter 4 of this
act motor vehicle does not include industrial equipment such as a forklift, a front-end loader, or other
construction equipment that is not subject to registration under this act. Motor vehicle does not include an
electric patrol vehicle being operated in compliance with the electric patrol vehicle act. Motor vehicle does
not include an electric personal assistive mobility device.

take note of EXCEPT except devices exclusively moved by human power
257.79 “Vehicle” defined.
Sec. 79. “Vehicle” means every device in, upon, or by which any person or property is or may be
transported or drawn upon a highway, except devices exclusively moved by human power or used exclusively
upon stationary rails or tracks and except, only for the purpose of titling and registration under this act, a
mobile home as defined in section 2 of the mobile home commission act, Act No. 96 of the Public Acts of
1987, being section 125.2302 of the Michigan Compiled Laws.
History: 1949, Act 300, Eff. Sept. 23, 1949;¾Am. 1976, Act 439, Imd. Eff. Jan. 13, 1977;¾Am. 1978, Act 568, Eff. Jan. 6, 1979;¾
Am. 1992, Act 134, Eff. Oct. 1, 1992.
History: 1949, Act 300, Eff. Sept. 23, 1949;¾Am. 1993, Act 300, Eff. Jan. 1, 1994;¾Am. 1995, Act 140, Imd. Eff. July 10, 1995;¾
Am. 1997, Act 56, Imd. Eff. July 1, 1997;¾Am. 2002, Act 494, Imd. Eff. July 3, 2002.

for those walking out there
257.655 Pedestrians on highways; violation as civil infraction.
Sec. 655. (1) Where sidewalks are provided, a pedestrian shall not walk upon the main traveled portion of
the highway. Where sidewalks are not provided, pedestrians shall, when practicable, walk on the left side of
the highway facing traffic which passes nearest.
(2) A person who violates this section is responsible for a civil infraction.
History: 1949, Act 300, Eff. Sept. 23, 1949;¾Am. 1978, Act 510, Eff. Aug. 1, 1979.


so be careful....
when riding in the road (or acrossed) you fall under all road laws that pertain to low speed vehicles/motorcycles. Ie if you go against traffic on a one way   
  which i have seen numerous times.
when you are riding on the sidewalk you are considered 'pedestrian traffic' but must yield to "walkers"

might need some editing as i am not the greatest writer.
not a lawyer use this information at your own risk.
-jon

[Jon Mire]

part two... resereved

[Jon Mire]

part three......... reserved

[CV67PAT]

Part four- for sale.

Bicycles have been discussed quite extensively. Cmdr Ice cream on OpenCarry dot ORG has had some experiences. Check over there for some good reading.

My take on his last episode with Detroit PD verifies that they know that OC on a bike is legal because he didn't give them his CPL and they could have jacked him for nondisclosure if it had actually applied. He got a ticket for violation of a bike registration ordinance that was no longer in effect.

[TheQ]

I like chocolate ice cream...yum!

[Jon Mire]

ok did some searches for open carry on a bike but everything was vague with no laws cited.

[CV67PAT]

I like chocolate ice cream...yum!

Make up your mind.

[Jon Mire]

consolidating information you guys mentioned

http://forum.opencarry.org/forums/showthread.php?55656-OC-Allowed-on-Motorcycles-and-Bicycles&highlight=bicycle
census was you could but needed more reserch

http://forum.opencarry.org/forums/showthread.php?38609-Vehicle&highlight=bicycle
Posted 09-02-2007, 05:53 PM
13A-11-73 says that it's illegal to carry a pistol in a vehicle without a permit. Does anybody know where the definition of a vehicle is in the code? I simply can't find it. I've been wondering if a bicycle would be considered a vehicle, or an unpowered boat (like a canoe or kayak). I'm guessing it means motorized vehicles, or maybe just vehicles that need to be registered,but I dunno.

EDIT:

Checked again using lexisnexis. Seems that vehicle is defined in: 32-1-1.1.

(81)Vehicle. Every device in, upon or by which any person or property is or may be transported or drawn upon a highway, excepting devices moved by human power or used exclusively upon stationary rails or tracks or electric personal assistive mobility devices; provided, that for the purposes of this title, a bicycle or a ridden animal shall be deemed a vehicle, except those provisions of this title, which by their very nature can have no application.

So, it seems that under Title 32 a bicycle is a vehicle, but not under other titles.... This brings up another question though. Since a 'Vehicle' is something 'transported or drawn upon a highway', does that mean people without pistol permits can carry pistols on motorized boats, or even ATVs (They aren't designed for highway use, and even say "not for use on highway" on them)

 it looks like there has been an update to the 'vehicle' definition since this post from alabama...............

[autosurgeon]

Some in the State Police agree it is not a vehicle... some don't.. it COULD end up in court... hard to say.

[yance]

This is a hard one as far as non CPL OC on a bicycle given the definition of vehicle in the laws. I ride a bike and I am always looking for something to affirm my right to ride a bike OC with no CPL. At this point I do not and i advise others in my position not to so that they don't risk a CCW conviction.  I would love to see a definite answer come out though.  Looking at the wording of 227d and 227 it would appear legal, primarily because 227 says "in" a vehicle and it is almost physically impossible for one to be "in" a bike while OCing. Webster defines "in" as being "within or inside of" and a person would sit "on" a bicycle.

[Jon Mire]

Some in the State Police agree it is not a vehicle... some don't.. it COULD end up in court... hard to say.

while i understand that. apparently they need an update on what the Secretary of State says. how do we get them to add this to thier handout to officers?

“Vehicle” means every device in, upon, or by which any person or property is or may be
transported or drawn upon a highway, except devices exclusively moved by human power or used exclusively
upon stationary rails or tracks and except, only for the purpose of titling and registration under this act, a
mobile home as defined in section 2 of the mobile home commission act, Act No. 96 of the Public Acts of
1987, being section 125.2302 of the Michigan Compiled Laws.

[Jon Mire]

This is a hard one as far as non CPL OC on a bicycle given the definition of vehicle in the laws. I ride a bike and I am always looking for something to affirm my right to ride a bike OC with no CPL. At this point I do not and i advise others in my position not to so that they don't risk a CCW conviction.  I would love to see a definite answer come out though.  Looking at the wording of 227d and 227 it would appear legal, primarily because 227 says "in" a vehicle and it is almost physically impossible for one to be "in" a bike while OCing. Webster defines "in" as being "within or inside of" and a person would sit "on" a bicycle.

well lets get this confirmed and no longer a grey area! Shall we hash out some things and submit them to the AG?

a gun can be in a bicycle, meaning that the gun has to be in a case/holster, where then be attached to the bike by some means becoming part of the bike. (think gun case strapped to book rack via bungees which makes the weapon not readily accessible) but seeing that if its a pistol then having attached to the bike would be exempt because it would be transporting it in the bicycle as per 750.227d (1). therefore it would be neither CC or OC is my interpretation and you can just strap/clip a pistol to the bike for transport. Personally, I would rather have it OC on my hip. But yeah a bike is not a vehicle which is common misconception nor is any other human powered thingy. there was a case i read online last night where a guy was on a bike and got a speeding ticket while going down hill. it got thrown out because it was not a motorcycle and did not need PLPD insurance. when you need tags from the secretary of state it is a vehicle is pretty much the rule of thumb. like when adding a motor to a bicycle or human powered device it usually needs a moped tag and therefore becomes a vehicle. mentioned this to a LEO once and he backed down.

rifles and ammo
well it would be safe to say that a separate case would be needed to attached to the bike to keep the ammo/gun separated, taken down etc.. this is a result of  750.227d part 1 sections A-D (as if it were in a trunk and glove box) rifles are not exempt from the transport law even on bicycle.
  Although there was an investigation in northern michigan where a guy was on his bike riding down the road with an AR-15 slinged over his back and a pistol and they let him go. I think the AR-15 was a bit much on his part of the "protest" as the news article put it.

but i digress your right.

the situation appears that wheeled human powered travel is covered by 750.227d and double covered if a pistol 750.227d part 1. A rifle would appear to have to be in a case and attached to the bicycle or persons back in a case with the skateboard/Rollerblade situation. (that would suck)

I searched through the county clerks CD of Michigan gun laws. In that CD I did not find anything substantial about guns and bicycle/human powered travel.

anyone else gonna chime in?
-jon

[TheQ]

If someone can piece together a complete and coherent question, I'll see what I can do about getting it to the AG.

Make a story -- let's say a hunter is involved.  "You're biking to a nearby hunting spot with a rifle".

In Michigan, hunters are LOVED -- OCers, not so much.  That in mind, anything that applies to "hunters" would also apply to OCers.

Note, when I got a recent "informal" opinion...I worded it about a "hunter".

[CV67PAT]

First of all, "we" can't submit anything to the AG.

Secondly, even if the AG opines, it is not a binding case law decision and is really only worth the cyberspace it occupies.

And thirdly, if the AG opines in favor of one side of the debate on this forum, the opposing side will continue their mantra.

Case in point: Transportation of a pistol in the parking lot of a PFZ is not possession of the pistol.

[TheQ]

First of all, "we" can't submit anything to the AG.

Secondly, even if the AG opines, it is not a binding case law decision and is really only worth the cyberspace it occupies.

And thirdly, if the AG opines in favor of one side of the debate on this forum, the opposing side will continue their mantra.

Case in point: Transportation of a pistol in the parking lot of a PFZ is not possession of the pistol.

This

[yance]

Theres probably a fair chance you could win the court case, however great that would be for the non CPL OC community, it would cost the individual fighting it in court a lot of hassle, time, and money.

Q I'll draw something up and see what you think about it...if its good we can always try.

but if we can get an official AG opinion on it, though not case binding, it would certainly help over having nothing at all.

[Jon Mire]

If someone can piece together a complete and coherent question, I'll see what I can do about getting it to the AG.

Make a story -- let's say a hunter is involved.  "You're biking to a nearby hunting spot with a rifle".

In Michigan, hunters are LOVED -- OCers, not so much.  That in mind, anything that applies to "hunters" would also apply to OCers.

Note, when I got a recent "informal" opinion...I worded it about a "hunter".

Well think about a story to come up with over the weekend. maybe pistol related for the "new" pistol hunting laws is an excellent topic. hehehehe maybe add minimum wage guy and can't afford to drive car because of gas prices.

First of all, "we" can't submit anything to the AG.

well i am not politically savvy but you guys got the gist.

what about getting the state police to add things to their Michigan State Police Legal Updates for human powered transport? what is their procedure?
Is there an lawyer or someone that can help for legal interpretation?

[Jon Mire]

I am haveing trouble of what way to take the story concept. i don't know what perspective to write it from.



newly found links
http://www.thetruthaboutguns.com/2011/08/eric-nelson/the-truth-about-bicycle-carry/
http://www.cyclingforums.com/t/180561/how-many-of-you-carry-a-gun-as-part-of-your-cycling-equipment
http://www.bikeforums.net/showthread.php/59519-Does-anyone-carry-a-gun?highlight=gun good laywer notes of why to Bicycle Carry
http://www.midwestenergynews.com/2012/02/23/sorry-newt-you-can-put-a-gun-rack-on-a-bicycle-too/ OMG you have to read it to belive it. yes it can be done.
http://www.northwestfirearms.com/general-firearm-discussion/24254-mountain-bike-gun-rack.html
http://mountainbikemilitia.com/gungolf.html

terry stop in Detroit for OC on Bicycle. case was dismissed.



Bicycle registration
http://apps.lansingmi.gov/bikereg/ lansing, mi
http://police.msu.edu/bikeinfo.asp MSU, City of Lansing, City of East Lansing and Meridian Township registrations
http://www.m-bike.org/blog/2008/07/03/detroit-police-announce-bicycle-license-enforcement/ Detroit bike registration and laws

http://www.michigan.gov/mdot/0,1607,7-151-9615_11223---,00.html MDOT resource

http://apps.lansingmi.gov/bikereg/rules.jsp Bicycle vehicle code for lansing and MDOT law

[CV67PAT]

Is there an lawyer or someone that can help for legal interpretation?

Yes there is. You can post questions for an attorney in the "Ask a Firearm Attorney" sub-forum located here:

http://forums.michiganopencarry.org/index.php/board,32.0.html

[Jon Mire]

bugger no edit post button... this needed to go into part 2


Ahhh ha!! found it!

excerpts taken from Michigan firearms laws cd 2011 distributed by the county clerk.

750.227c Transporting or possessing loaded firearm in or upon vehicle; violation as
misdemeanor; penalty; applicability to person violating MCL 312.10(1)(g).
Sec. 227c. (1) Except as otherwise permitted by law, a person shall not transport or possess in or upon a
sailboat or a motor vehicle, aircraft, motorboat, or any other vehicle propelled by mechanical means, a
firearm, other than a pistol, which is loaded.
(2) A person who violates this section is guilty of a misdemeanor, punishable by imprisonment for not
more than 2 years, or a fine of not more than $2,500.00, or both.
(3) This section does not apply to a person who violates section 10(1)(g) of chapter II of Act No. 286 of the
Public Acts of 1929, as amended, being section 312.10 of the Michigan Compiled Laws.
History: Add. 1981, Act 103, Eff. Mar. 31, 1982.

well a bicycle is a vehicle but the whole "propelled by mechanical means" .... "other than a pistol" to me says legal and

is saying the same as MDOT law. though MDOT is better worded.

750.227d Transporting or possessing firearm in or upon motor vehicle or self-propelled
vehicle designed for land travel; conditions; violation as misdemeanor; penalty.
Sec. 227d. (1) Except as otherwise permitted by law, a person shall not transport or possess in or upon a
motor vehicle or any self-propelled vehicle designed for land travel a firearm, other than a pistol, unless the
firearm is unloaded and is 1 or more of the following:
(a) Taken down.
(b) Enclosed in a case.
(c) Carried in the trunk of the vehicle.
(d) Inaccessible from the interior of the vehicle.
(2) A person who violates this section is guilty of a misdemeanor, punishable by imprisonment for not
more than 90 days, or a fine of not more than $100.00, or both.
History: Add. 1981, Act 103, Eff. Mar. 31, 1982.

752.841 Firearms; definition.
Sec. 1. For the purposes of this act the word “firearm” shall mean any weapon or device from which is
propelled any missile, projectile, bullet, shot, pellet or other mass by means of explosives, compressed air or
gas, or by means of springs, levers or other mechanical device.
History: 1952, Act 10, Eff. Sept. 18, 1952.

Frank J. Kelley, Attorney General opinions/statements from said Compact Disk

........The definition of the term ‘pistol’ is set forth in subsection (a) of MCL 28.421; MSA 28.91:
“Pistol’ means any firearm, loaded or unloaded, 30 inches or less in length, or any firearm, loaded or unloaded,
which by its construction and appearance conceals it as a firearm.’........

......The definition of the term ‘pistol’ in MCL 28.421; MSA 28.91, is unambiguous. It clearly covers all firearms
which are not more than 30 inches in length. The firearms which are described generally in the first question and specifically in the
examples are fully operable when they are 30 inches or less in length and are pistols under MCL 28.422; MSA 28.92.
MCL 28.422; MSA 28.92, provides that no person shall purchase, carry or transport a pistol without first obtaining a license
therefor. A person who owns or comes into possession of a pistol is required to present such weapon for safety inspection
to the applicable local law enforcement officer in accordance with MCL 28.429; MSA 28.99.........

In Huron Advertising Co v Charter Twp of Pittsfield, 110 Mich App 398, 402; 313 NW2d 132 (1981), lv den, 414 Mich 855
(1982), the court stated:
‘All words and phrases in ordinances and statutes must be construed according to their common and approved
usage…Effect must also be given to each part of a sentence, so as not to render another part nugatory…Judicial
construction of a statute or ordinance is inappropriate where the language of the statute is unambiguous.’

"safety inspection" is no longer required so i understand. although a "license to carry" implies a licence is needed but where to get one if your purchase permit is not a license to carry. huh does not imply CC either.


if you live in Detroit a note worthy thing to research about open carry and transport of pistols. local ordinances overriding state
law?
http://www.firearmstalk.com/forums/f17/mi-open-carry-rules-23716/

[TheQ]

Yeah...bad news. You can't (or rather, the forum is thusly configured) edit posts over 1 week old.

I got my chuckle when you started reserving posts knowing this would be the case.

[yance]

If we can get an official opinion from an attorney with the cites given that results in their concurrence I would feel confident in the things posted. 

[Jon Mire]

Yeah...bad news. You can't (or rather, the forum is thusly configured) edit posts over 1 week old.

I got my chuckle when you started reserving posts knowing this would be the case.

yeah i do some things without realizing the reality.  it is funny many times but i never want to end up in a tragic situation which has happened once or twice in my lifetime.

[mpearce]

Hey all,

This is an interesting thread.   Check out my reply to Yance in the "Ask a Firearms Attorney" Forum.

[yance]

Here's the link if anyone needs it, from the way Melissa explains it and based on her research, OC on a bike, without a CPL would be otherwise lawful as long as the person doing it could possess a firearm.


http://forums.michiganopencarry.org/index.php/topic,1863.0.html

[Jon Mire]

Here's the link if anyone needs it, from the way Melissa explains it and based on her research, OC on a bike, without a CPL would be otherwise lawful as long as the person doing it could possess a firearm.


http://forums.michiganopencarry.org/index.php/topic,1863.0.html

Yey!

Also carried last week on my way to a friends get together on my recumbant bike. All went well with check up/drive past from okemos police and east lansing police. I stuck to the sidewalk though.

[Jon Mire]

holy cow 1700 reads ^_^ well that is kewl!!

[TheQ]

holy cow 1700 reads ^_^ well that is kewl!!

Wow. Necto post! Kewl!

[gryphon]

[CV67PAT]

holy cow 1700 reads ^_^ well that is kewl!!

Holy necro poster!!! Where you been dude? we ain't heard from you in nearly 2 years.

[FASBOLD]

Here's the link if anyone needs it, from the way Melissa explains it and based on her research, OC on a bike, without a CPL would be otherwise lawful as long as the person doing it could possess a firearm.


http://forums.michiganopencarry.org/index.php/topic,1863.0.html

The above link says it either does not exist or I don't have access to it. Is it a link to be fixed, or a topic that is off limits?

I only mention it because the thread showed up in my unread list.

An Error Has Occurred!
The topic or board you are looking for appears to be either missing or off limits to you.

[TheQ]

We discontinued the ask an attorney section that topic was in.