What if a LEO ask for fishing licence while OC?

[stevejones370]

I was asking a LEO friend the other day about his opinion on OC. He had the same feelings as most cops I've talked to about it. His basic feelings were I didnt need to walk around with a gun and so on. I didn't argue with him as I asked for his opinion. I did mention that I dont have to provide ID as long as im not commiting a crime. I told him I mainly open carry while i night fish in a bad neighborhood. We went back and forth on this then he had me stumped. What if I am asked for my fishing license while OCing? Do I have to provide that to a regular LEO?

[CV67PAT]

I was asking a LEO friend the other day about his opinion on OC. He had the same feelings as most cops I've talked to about it. His basic feelings were I didnt need to walk around with a gun and so on. I didn't argue with him as I asked for his opinion. I did mention that I dont have to provide ID as long as im not commiting a crime. I told him I mainly open carry while i night fish in a bad neighborhood. We went back and forth on this then he had me stumped. What if I am asked for my fishing license while OCing? Do I have to provide that to a regular LEO?

While fishing? You must provide it, if so.

[autosurgeon]

As Pat said you must provide it while fishing or while performing any other licensed activity wherein the license states you must have ID on you.

[TheQ]

If you're fishing and openly carrying in a boat you must disclose that you are carrying and have a CPL. You do have a CPL (if you're on a boat), right?

[stevejones370]

I am only OC while shore fishing. Thanks for the quick response and for clearing this up.

[Hammurabi]

This is a little off-topic, but I don't believe there is an obligation to disclose an unconcealed pistol carried in a vehicle.

Per 750.227:

(2) A person shall not carry a pistol concealed on or about his or her person, or, whether concealed or otherwise, in a vehicle operated or occupied by the person, except in his or her dwelling house, place of business, or on other land possessed by the person, without a license to carry the pistol as provided by law and if licensed, shall not carry the pistol in a place or manner inconsistent with any restrictions upon such license.

This establishes unconcealed vehicular carry as distinct from concealed vehicular carry.

Per 28.425f:

(3) An individual licensed under this act to carry a concealed pistol and who is carrying a concealed pistol and who is stopped by a peace officer shall immediately disclose to the peace officer that he or she is carrying a pistol concealed upon his or her person or in his or her vehicle.

This specifies that one need only disclose only if carrying concealed, regardless of whether a vehicle is involved.


That said, disclosing when not necessary may not be a bad idea, and different people will have different ideas of where to draw the line between concealed and otherwise.

[TheQ]

I wouldn't chance it. Good luck convincing a judge of your interpretation.

[backenj]

There is no way to “open carry” a pistol in a
vehicle. An individual, without a CPL or
otherwise exempted (e.g., a police officer), who
transports a pistol in a vehicle to an area where
he or she intends to “open carry” may be in
violation of MCL.750.227 --- From Legal Update 86

[TheQ]

There is no way to “open carry” a pistol in a
vehicle. An individual, without a CPL or
otherwise exempted (e.g., a police officer), who
transports a pistol in a vehicle to an area where
he or she intends to “open carry” may be in
violation of MCL.750.227 --- From Legal Update 86

Technically, it could be argued "carried otherwise" (neither open or concealed)....which was the angle he was arguing for.  I wouldn't do it....I'd still disclose about my gun and my CPL, if I was carrying.

[backenj]

This is a little off-topic, but I don't believe there is an obligation to disclose an unconcealed pistol carried in a vehicle.


 His first question is about a gun in the car. Again..."There is no way to “open carry” a pistol in a
vehicle". Having a loaded gun sitting on your passenger seat would then be carrying a concealed weapon. Without a CPL it would be a crime. So yes, you MUST disclose the weapon. In a locked box in the trunk, maybe not.

 

[backenj]

 To clarify, with a CPL you always need to disclose the weapon. In the trunk or not. With out a CPL and its in the trunk, locked, I'm not sure.

[CV67PAT]

To clarify, with a CPL you always need to disclose the weapon. In the trunk or not. With out a CPL and its in the trunk, locked, I'm not sure.

Got a cite for this? I find this interpretation interesting.

[backenj]

 Interpretation? From the M.S.P. web site. Left side,"firearms". Scroll down to "Proper conduct during encounters with police".

An individual licensed to carry a concealed pistol who is stopped by a police officer (traffic stop or otherwise) while in possession of a pistol shall immediately disclose to the police officer that he or she is carrying a concealed pistol either on their person or in their motor vehicle. 
Failure to disclose this information to a police officer carries the following penalties: 
First offense = State Civil Infraction - $500 fine and 6-month CPL license suspension. 
Second offense = State Civil Infraction - $1000 fine and CPL license revocation. 
An individual licensed to carry a concealed pistol shall have the license in his or her possession at all times he or she is carrying a concealed pistol. 
Failure to possess CPL license when carrying a concealed pistol is a State Civil Infraction and a $100.00 fine. 
Upon request, an individual licensed to carry a concealed pistol shall show both of the following to a police officer: 
His or her license to carry a concealed pistol 
His or her driver license or personal identification card 
Failure to show CPL license and Michigan driver license or Michigan personal identification card when carrying a concealed pistol is a State Civil Infraction and $100.00 fine. 
A pistol carried in violation of numbers 1, 2, or 3 is subject to immediate seizure by a police officer. 
If a pistol is seized for failure to possess a CPL while carrying a concealed pistol: 
Individual has 45 days in which to display their license to carry a concealed pistol to the law enforcement agency that seized the pistol and the pistol shall be returned. 
If the individual does not display their license to carry a concealed pistol within 45 days the pistol is subject to forfeiture.


 I'm not really sure what you mean by interpretation. But like I said, with out a CPL and the gun is in a locked box in the trunk, I don't know if you have to disclose. With a CPL, you ALWAYS have to disclose.

[TheQ]

An individual licensed to carry a concealed pistol who is stopped by a police officer (traffic stop or otherwise) while in possession of a pistol shall immediately disclose to the police officer that he or she is carrying a concealed pistol either on their person or in their motor vehicle. 

1. Don't take legal advise from cops, they are often wrong.
2. t could be very successfully argued that if it is in the trunk and unloaded, you aren't in possession of it, but are rather transporting it.

[backenj]

I'm going to say that it's not advise, but the law. After all, there are penaltys for not disclosing of a weapon. You can't be fined and your license suspended and your gun seized for not takeing advice. It states that if the weapon is on your person or in the car (paraphrase) you must disclose of it. Transporting it, useing it as a paper weight or anything else, it's still in your car. That was also a hard hit topic in my CPL class.


 

[TheQ]

Are you going to let them search your car?

[backenj]

  So if pulled over you wouldn't tell LEO of a weapon if it was in your trunk? Even though he already knows you have a CPL as he is walking up to your door. And when asked, because he most likely will ask, you'll say no? Then refuse a search if asked? ( I agree with no search part)  Why not save any/all trouble that could happen and just tell him about the weapon? I'm sure the advice you are giving isn't to break the law by not disclosing you have a gun. I'm not sure what your angle is here.

[TheQ]

When asked I will say: I'm sorry officer, I understand you're just trying to do your job -- but I'd really rather not discuss the contents of my vehicle with you or answer any other questions.

My angle is that it is a personal choice. You are the one arguing that you are required to do it. I'm not saying what people should do I'm just offering a choice and arguing your position that it is required.

[backenj]

 I'm dumbfounded by you on this. It's not my position, it's the law. Black and white. No shades of
 gray.

[TheQ]

Since you're new: here's some suggested watching....



And it's not the law, it's your interpretation of it.  Others here (besides me) will argue your interpretation is incorrect.

Now should you disclose?  Only you can decide that...it's a personal decision.  I'd put forth you're not required to.

I am Not a lawyer, this isn't legal advice, if you want a lawyer's opinion you should post in the "Ask a Firearms attorney" area.