Author Topic: Open Carry encounter in an unemployment office  (Read 29770 times)

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Offline Shadow Bear

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Re: Open Carry encounter in an unemployment office
« Reply #20 on: September 06, 2012, 12:14:53 PM »
$300 doesn't buy as much lead as it used to either. And lead is a much more precious metal than gold. Gold is a wast of money. Lead will be the currency of the future.

Yeah, I'm heavily invested in precious metals- lead, brass and blued steel.
Its not GUN rights, its HUMAN rights.

Offline prospectpuppet

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Re: Open Carry encounter in an unemployment office
« Reply #21 on: September 21, 2012, 12:03:47 AM »
Quick side note/question. By the security guards asking you to take it outside, wouldn't that fall under the private property rules? Or would the institution have to have their policy publicly posted? Being that I'm a cpl holder and I can legally open carry on a college campus, if that campus doesn't have a "no firearms" sign on the door, do I have to comply when asked to leave? Or can I do what pat did here? Basically, how can I tell who can and cannot decide to legally remove me from a building even though I'm legal? Thanks in advance for any input.


Brad

Offline WilDChilD

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Re: Open Carry encounter in an unemployment office
« Reply #22 on: September 21, 2012, 08:32:46 AM »
Basically, how can I tell who can and cannot decide to legally remove me from a building even though I'm legal?
Brad
Read thousands of hours of MI law. Colleges are a different breed so be extra careful when carry on a campus. With out specifics of which college it will be hard to answer more, but read their rules and laws (I believe most make their own laws).

Offline gryphon

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Re: Open Carry encounter in an unemployment office
« Reply #23 on: September 21, 2012, 08:30:12 PM »
By the security guards asking you to take it outside, wouldn't that fall under the private property rules?

Unemployment offices are not private property.

Offline TheQ

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Open Carry encounter in an unemployment office
« Reply #24 on: September 21, 2012, 08:46:48 PM »
Unemployment offices are not private property.

Many are leased buildings.
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Offline gryphon

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Re: Open Carry encounter in an unemployment office
« Reply #25 on: September 21, 2012, 09:16:19 PM »
Good point.  So was the security guard a representative of the state office or the private building owner?  Since the guard was not employed by the building owner...

Offline CV67PAT

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Re: Open Carry encounter in an unemployment office
« Reply #26 on: September 22, 2012, 01:12:10 PM »
Many are leased buildings.

So if a property is leased from someone that has a policy of no firearms, the lessee would have to abide by that?


Good point.  So was the security guard a representative of the state office or the private building owner?  Since the guard was not employed by the building owner...

Who was the security guard employed by?
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Offline gryphon

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Re: Open Carry encounter in an unemployment office
« Reply #27 on: September 23, 2012, 05:49:08 PM »
State government?

Offline CV67PAT

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Re: Open Carry encounter in an unemployment office
« Reply #28 on: September 23, 2012, 06:19:27 PM »
State government?
Which department of the state?
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Offline gryphon

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Re: Open Carry encounter in an unemployment office
« Reply #29 on: September 23, 2012, 07:33:09 PM »
LARA, I think.

Offline CV67PAT

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Re: Open Carry encounter in an unemployment office
« Reply #30 on: September 23, 2012, 08:33:58 PM »
actually it is a mutli-jurisdictional facility. DHS, VA, and other agencies are tenants in that public facility.
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Offline TheQ

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Open Carry encounter in an unemployment office
« Reply #31 on: September 23, 2012, 08:42:38 PM »
DTMB (Department of Technology, Management and Budget) controls all state owned and leased buildings and provides the security for them.
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Offline TheQ

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Open Carry encounter in an unemployment office
« Reply #32 on: September 25, 2012, 09:18:02 AM »
I just spoke to a gentleman via phone that had a similar experience: he was told by a security guard that he wasn't going to get served unless he disarmed. I invited him to join our Internet forum to see what happened in this discussion and invite him to contribute his experience.

ETA: he says he also called the NRA and the NRA said they will send a "cease and desist" letter...interesting. That seems unlike our experience with the NRA. I wonder if they will actually do it?

I hope he shows up here with more details for discussion.
« Last Edit: September 25, 2012, 09:25:04 AM by TheQ »
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Offline METL

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Re: Open Carry encounter in an unemployment office
« Reply #33 on: September 25, 2012, 09:41:42 AM »
How did you meet this guy?   Let me guess, struck up conversation because you were OCing?   


Another benefit of OC (we've already discussed) is the conversations you have that you never would have!!!

Offline TheQ

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Open Carry encounter in an unemployment office
« Reply #34 on: September 25, 2012, 10:19:55 AM »
How did you meet this guy?   Let me guess, struck up conversation because you were OCing?   


Another benefit of OC (we've already discussed) is the conversations you have that you never would have!!!

Actually, he called the Michigan Open Carry hotline # on our website.
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Offline METL

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Re: Open Carry encounter in an unemployment office
« Reply #35 on: September 25, 2012, 10:35:03 AM »
Oh well that's even better... nice to know that it's "working"...   

Offline CV67PAT

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Re: Open Carry encounter in an unemployment office
« Reply #36 on: September 25, 2012, 11:23:38 AM »
There was a follow up encounter, 2 weeks after my initial. it went pretty much the same. I was going to post it seperately.

Being told by the guard and the office manager that I wouldn't get served while armed didn't create an event that I could file a grievance against. I hadn't been grieved yet. Now, had I waited until my turn and then was refused service, I would have had grounds to file a formal complaint against the employee.

The office being in a public or private facility has no significance to me.

Just like my rights to lawfully use property I lease isn't affected by the property owner's edicts, the State's right to establish or maintain it's own laws doesn't change when it leases property.

Just like renting an apartment.

I have had a similar encounter at an office of the Secretary of State. A customer with a CPL complained to the manager that I was violating the law. She came to discuss it with me, instead of calling the police, because she felt that I probably knew more than the complainer. Which I did. (Because I am a know it all.  ;) ) That was in a leased facility. At another SoS office, the guard saw me armed and didn't so much as give it a second look.

I feel that many times these people are somewhat aware of the law. But they like to make opinionated statements of what the law is to appear "knowledgeable" about it.

In my encounters, I was confident that I knew the law adequately to conduct myself in a lawful manner. i didn't spout the "it's my right" mantra. i simply repeatedly stated that "I was lawfully present." and that "I had a lawful reason" to be there, ant that i was "conducting myself lawfully." This was backed up with "If you think I am doing something wrong, call the police."
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Offline METL

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Re: Open Carry encounter in an unemployment office
« Reply #37 on: September 25, 2012, 12:03:01 PM »
*cheer


Also, like your new(er) sig....    good stuff by SB.

Offline rvd4now

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Re: Open Carry encounter in an unemployment office
« Reply #38 on: October 04, 2013, 12:04:00 AM »
u can oc or cc In a dhs office correct

Offline CV67PAT

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Re: Open Carry encounter in an unemployment office
« Reply #39 on: October 04, 2013, 12:16:11 AM »
u can oc or cc In a dhs office correct
Are you asking a question? Or making a statement?
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