Author Topic: Recoil magazine goes anti-freedom (Read 23091 times)

gryphon · « **on:** September 10, 2012, 11:50:06 PM »

I've been watching this unfold over the last day or so. In their new issue, they state:

"Like we mentioned before, the MP7A1 is unavailable to civilians and for good reason. We all know that’s technology no civvies should ever get to lay their hands on. This is a purpose-built weapon with no sporting applications to speak of. It is made to put down scumbags, and that’s it. Mike Cabrera of Heckler & Koch Law Enforcement Sales and veteran law enforcement officer with SWAT unit experience points out that this is a gun that you do not want in the wrong, slimy hands. It comes with semi-automatic and full-auto firing modes only. Its overall size places it between a handgun and submachine gun. Its assault rifle capabilities and small size make this a serious weapon that should not be taken lightly."

This is not going over well in the firearms community! Of course, their readership is outraged. But so are their sponsors.

gryphon · « **Reply #1 on:** September 10, 2012, 11:55:24 PM »

From Silencerco:
Recoil Magazine Statement
Written by Silencerco on September 9, 2012 — 66 Comments

Recently we were made aware of some disturbing “Editorial” comments on behalf of Recoil magazine, concerning the illegitimacy of a certain firearm (and by extension, an entire class of firearms) for “sporting purposes”.

We feel these comments are counterproductive and are certainly NOT reflective of the opinion of Silencerco/SWR or the American shooting public.

The statements made by the editorial staff and others interviewed for the article were so poorly stated, factually inaccurate and so misrepresentative of the core values and beliefs of our company and our mission, that we have written the editor of Recoil magazine and asked him to discontinue all scheduled advertising for both Silencerco and SWR products.

We sincerely hope that the owners of Recoil will get a strong message from the shooting public and all reputable manufacturers that our people will not tolerate the mindset behind those statements. We urge you to make your opinion known to recoil and their advertisers.

Thank you for your continued support of our company, our sport and our collective right to keep and bear arms.

gryphon · « **Reply #2 on:** September 10, 2012, 11:56:14 PM »

Panteao is pulling their advertisements as well. Here's their statement:

To the Panteao Online Subscribers and DVD viewers:

I learned today about the article in the latest issue of RECOIL magazine on the HK MP7A1, or more specifically the comment within the article by the editor pertaining to who should own an MP7A1. I also saw the follow up in their Facebook page explaining their reasoning behind the editorial.

Panteao Productions has a very clear position when it comes to the Second Amendment. We do not agree with the opinion of the editor from RECOIL magazine and I am personally very disappointed that he would make such a statement about what he views as a firearm that should not be getting into the “wrong hands”. I would have expected that kind of ignorant comment coming from someone not in the firearms community or from one of the anti-gun organizations.

Until such time that the staff of RECOIL magazine changes their view on firearm ownership and the Second Amendment, Panteao Productions will be discontinuing all scheduled ads in their print publication and website and requesting that all Panteao video content be removed from their website.

I hope that someone at RECOIL magazine steps up and issues a formal apology to the firearms community. They have a great concept for their magazine and it would be a shame to see it go away. The ball is in their court with regards to how they handle their mishap.

Thank you for your continued support of Panteao Productions.

Fernando Coelho
President/CEO
Panteao Productions LLC

gryphon · « **Reply #3 on:** September 10, 2012, 11:57:24 PM »

Same with Travis Haley's company:

The Haley Strategic Partners team was disappointed to learn of an article and later, public comments, made by a editor at Recoil Magazine which indicated certain weapon systems were not suitable to be possessed or operated by responsible members of the American public. We take issue with this.

At Haley Strategic, we choose to train responsible citizens, law enforcement officers and military professionals in our courses ranging from basic to advanced Disruptive Environments. In short, we help Americans prepare. Weapons systems are tools. Tools built to preserve lives in life threatening situations. There is no reason to prevent responsible citizens from utilizing any tools that will improve their odds of surviving such an event.

We take this very seriously. Every person in at Haley Strategic believes that, as Americans, it is our responsibility to be prepared, both mentally and physically, for worst case events, whether they happen to ourselves and our loved ones, or innocent people caught in an unfolding tragedy.

As such, Haley Strategic Partners will indefinitely suspend all advertising and collaborative efforts with both Recoil Magazine and RecoilWeb.com.

gryphon · « **Reply #4 on:** September 10, 2012, 11:58:56 PM »

Magpul has responded.

Recently, the editor of RECOIL magazine wrote comments regarding who should and should not have access to certain firearms, as well as comments meant to clarify his initial statements. We at Magpul were severely disappointed in the apparent position of the author and by the comments themselves. We have been asked to provide a response to these comments and a statement regarding our intent to continue or discontinue advertising in RECOIL.

At Magpul we consider ourselves proponents of a culture of personal responsibility, where individual liberties are the true roots of our passion. Firearms are tools that can be an expression of those liberties, and more importantly, the guardians of them. When we were presented with the opportunity to support a new publication, called “RECOIL”, that had a different look and feel, we were on board. We had hopes that the broad appeal and fresh look of a publication of this type could be a big help in getting more people involved and interested in firearms and firearm freedoms issues. We welcome all who enjoy or appreciate firearms for any lawful purpose, as greater numbers strengthen our cause. We also want to partner with those who share our appreciation of the true struggle we are in regarding our Second Amendment freedoms.

Due to concerns about content and true motivation, we allowed our support for RECOIL to expire, with the current issue being our last, until we could determine if we were truly speaking the same language. The recent comments and subsequent clarification made by the editor of RECOIL are completely counter to our position here at Magpul. These statements proved that there is an apparent gap between our values and those of RECOIL. As such, we have chosen not to continue or renew any advertising support for RECOIL magazine unless and until we are convinced at some future point that this publication truly shares our values and has the best interests of Magpul and our customers in mind.

We sincerely hope that the outpouring of Second Amendment support as a result of these comments can continue with as much strength towards educating existing and potential new shooters about the importance of firearms rights and in contacting elected officials to preserve those rights. We look forward to future efforts to reach a broader audience through individual effort, and perhaps through an appropriately focused publication, to continue growth in the number of Americans who enjoy celebrating our Second Amendment heritage.

gryphon · « **Reply #5 on:** September 11, 2012, 01:54:37 AM »

Military Arms Channel: Enemies within (edited)

The need to justify a 'legitimate purpose' to own a firearm is absurd on it's face. The furtherance of that by means of a "sporting application" flies in the face of history and all logic.

We must dispel the lie that is referred to as "sporting purposes".

First and foremost, people have a Right to defend themselves. Period. There are no sporting purposes to self defense. The Right to defend yourself is unlimited.

As Samuel Adams said: “You have rights antecedent to all earthly governments; rights that cannot be repealed or restrained by human laws; rights derived from the Great Legislator of the Universe.” Simply put, you have it and no man (or woman) has the authority to rightfully take that from you.

So we can clearly see, "sporting purposes" is a classic strawman argument. The enemies of Freedom, Liberty and self defense cannot argue with reason and logic, so they lie and they create false definitions and dichotomies to try and justify their indefensible positions to disarm us and leave us defenseless in the face of criminals, terrorists and tyrants.

You have the Right to decide how best to defend yourself. After all you don't have a Right to something if someone can put all sorts of absurd conditions or restrictions on it.

http://militaryarms.blogspot.com/2012/09/enemies-within.html

gryphon · « **Reply #6 on:** September 11, 2012, 06:04:38 PM »

yance · « **Reply #7 on:** September 11, 2012, 06:15:03 PM »

I think this should get the point across, which, according to their Facebook page, is working.

From the RECOIL Facebook page, dated 9/10/12:

Quote from: RECOIL

I’d like to address the comments regarding what I wrote in the MP7A1 article in RECOIL issue 4. First and foremost, I’d like to apologize for any offense that I have caused with the article. With the benefit of hindsight, I now understand the outrage, and I am greatly saddened that it was initiated by my words. Especially since, I am an unwavering supporter of 2nd Amendment Rights. I’ve chosen to spend a significant part of both my personnel and professional life immersed in this enthusiasm, so to have my support of individuals’ rights called into doubt is extremely unfortunate. With that said, I retract what I wrote in the offending paragraph within this article. It should have had been presented with more clarity.

In the article, I stated some information that was passed on to me about why the gun is not available for civilian purchase. By no means did I intend to imply that civilians are not responsible, nor do we lack the judgment to own such weapons, if I believed anything approaching this, clearly I would lead a much different life. I also mentioned in the article that the gun had no sporting purpose. This again, was information passed on to me and reported in the article without the necessary additional context. I believe everything published in RECOIL up to this point (other than this story), demonstrates we clearly understand and completely agree that guns do not need to have a sporting purpose in order for them to be rightfully available to civilians. In retrospect, I should have presented this information in a clearer manner. Although I can understand the manufacturer’s stance on the subject, it doesn’t mean that I agree with it.

Again, I acknowledge the mistakes I made and for them I am truly sorry.

Sincerely,
Jerry Tsai
Editor
RECOIL

gryphon · « **Reply #8 on:** September 11, 2012, 06:15:03 PM »

ITS Tactical pulls out.

An unfortunate turn of events has occurred surrounding the latest issue of RECOIL Magazine. Everyone at ITS HQ was ecstatic when we received our copies of issue #4 and saw our ETA Trauma Kit Pouch gracing the cover along with a slung H&K MP7A1.

So ecstatic in fact, that we didn’t catch the glaring editorial and PR train wreck that Editor Jerry Tsai managed to insert into the article covering the MP7 . . .

The issues with [Tsai's] statement come down to both the comments made by Mike Cabrera of Heckler & Koch and Mr. Tsai. Talking about the technology of the MP7 not having any “sporting applications” and not wanting the gun “in the wrong, slimy hands.” is just absurd. What gun do you want in the “wrong, slimy hands?” What baseball bat do you want in the “wrong, slimy hands?” See where this is going?

The Second Amendment doesn’t come with the caveat of being only for sporting purposes and for good reason. The primary purpose for owning a gun is for defense. Maybe Mr. Tsai has forgotten that if it wasn’t for civilian weapons, we’d still be a British colony.

One of the truly disappointing things about his statements is that he did it on the backs of RECOIL’s advertisers, readers and everyone that’s made the publication what it is today. ITS has advertised in RECOIL for the past two issues amongst some of our good friends in the industry and on Friday had plans to continue to advertise in the next issue. In light of Mr. Tsai’s comments, we’ve since cancelled those plans.

TheQ · « **Reply #9 on:** September 11, 2012, 06:15:14 PM »

We'll call this thread the gryphon blog?

gryphon · « **Reply #10 on:** September 11, 2012, 07:07:03 PM »

Quote from: yance on September 11, 2012, 06:15:03 PM

I think this should get the point across

From most comments I have read there and around the net, no one is buying the "it was taken out of context" excuse and that he was just "passing on the information." As one person said, he agreed with and endorsed it. He added his own comments and wrote "and for good reason" and "we all know that’s technology no civies should ever get to lay their hands on."

Quote

according to their Facebook page, is working

Read the comments following the "clarification" and apology Recoil posted. 99% are against Recoil and Tsai, even after the apology.

http://www.recoilweb.com/recoil-statement-16159.html

Furthermore, reading his apology full of improper spelling and bad grammar show his requisite skills as an editor are lacking in the first place.

gryphon · « **Reply #11 on:** September 11, 2012, 07:45:01 PM »

Quote from: yance on September 11, 2012, 06:15:03 PM

according to their Facebook page, is working.

Actually it looks like Recoil hired one of the online reputation companies to do damage control on facebook. Posts have come from people who "support" the magazine, but if you check some of the FB profiles they seem rather new. Posts from real readers on the Recoil website are not favorable.

wardog6t · « **Reply #12 on:** September 11, 2012, 07:47:38 PM »

Great information, thanks

gryphon · « **Reply #13 on:** September 11, 2012, 09:12:29 PM »

In a stunning move RECOIL Magazine "liked" the above comment on their Facebook page. The comment they liked was made by a reader who supported the notion MP7A1's shouldn't be sold to civilians.

This "like" came days after the apology. Obviously the apology was a ruse.

Soon after "liking" this comment Facebook readers were quick to have their tempers flare once again, with good reason. After realizing for a second time their anti-2nd Amendment views weren't in line with the majority of their readers, they "unliked" this comment in an apparent effort mask their true colors.

Link

gryphon · « **Reply #14 on:** September 11, 2012, 09:17:43 PM »

List of companies so far that have dropped their advertising on Recoil:

Magpul
Haley Strategic
OC Armory
Ares Armor
DSG Arms
Silencerco
OTG Concepts
ITS Tactical
Mega Arms
Panteao Productions
Mission First Tactical
Bravo Company
TNVC
SureFire
Vortex Optics
AAC
ITW Military Products
Leapers/UTG

On a Side note Leapers/UTG removed a member of their staff for supporting the Recoil editor's viewpoint publicly.

gryphon · « **Reply #15 on:** September 11, 2012, 09:21:19 PM »

The anti-2A, anti-freedom coalition is already using Recoil's article for their propaganda.

Coalition to Stop Gun Violence facebook

gryphon · « **Reply #16 on:** September 11, 2012, 10:46:27 PM »

From Noveske Rifleworks:

John here. I just read the article in Recoil magazine about the MP7. In my most "civil" voice, anyone opposing the private ownership of weapons is either uneducated or an enemy.

http://www.facebook.com/pages/Noveske-Rifleworks/181862575167497

bigt8261 · « **Reply #17 on:** September 12, 2012, 08:26:22 AM »

Great info gryphon, thanks. If we ever need an MOC reporter, I vote for gryphon.

TheQ · « **Reply #18 on:** September 12, 2012, 08:36:31 AM »

Quote from: bigt8261 on September 12, 2012, 08:26:22 AM

Great info gryphon, thanks. If we ever need an MOC reporter, I vote for gryphon.

He is working on a news letter...

METL · « **Reply #19 on:** September 12, 2012, 08:42:19 AM »

Quote from: gryphon on September 11, 2012, 09:21:19 PM

The anti-2A, anti-freedom coalition is already using Recoil's article for their propaganda.

Coalition to Stop Gun Violence facebook

And HERE we have the BIGGEST reason that gaffes like this are UNACCEPTABLE. He's not only made us back pedal, but he's given the anti's ammo for their fight.... possibly the WORST thing he could have done. Idiot.

gryphon · « **Reply #20 on:** September 12, 2012, 02:43:53 PM »

I've been periodically checking on Daniel Defense, waiting to see if they came on board, and wondering why not. Now I know.

+++++

This response was prepared on Monday, 9/10/2012, but Daniel Defense feels that in no way should a statement have been released that could have distracted Americans from what the true focus of yesterday should have been, the healing and remembrance of the nearly 3,000 Americans that were taken from us on 9/11/2001.

As a manufacturer of premium modern sporting rifles, it goes without being said, Daniel Defense’s very existence depends on the Second Amendment and the individual American citizen’s God given right to keep and bear arms. Daniel Defense’s stance has always been clear and unwavering in regards to this topic: Daniel Defense supports the individual American citizen’s right to own firearms regardless of the type or classification of firearms designated by the United States Government.

Over the last few days, Daniel Defense has been made aware of comments made in an article that was printed in the most recent issue of RECOIL Magazine.

As an advertiser in RECOIL Magazine, Daniel Defense feels it is prudent to make clear our company’s position in regards to the comments made in the article. Daniel Defense does not condone or in any way dismiss the comments made by the author nor are those statements reflective of Daniel Defense’s core values and beliefs.

Daniel Defense continues to demonstrate its support of the Second Amendment by providing National Firearms Act short barreled rifles to the US commercial market. These are the same firearms and/or upper receiver groups that Daniel Defense offers to US Special Operation Command, further defining Daniel Defense’s position relative to regulations imposed by the US Government.

Daniel Defense will continue to judiciously investigating this matter and monitor RECOIL’s response in order make a prudent and reasonable determination of what action will be taken.

https://www.facebook.com/DanielDefense

It's not until you get down to the comments that you see this:

Quote

Future ads have been suspended until we feel satisfied in the corrective action they have taken.

gryphon · « **Reply #21 on:** September 12, 2012, 04:11:42 PM »

Now we hear from HK. Posted just a few minutes ago.

http://www.facebook.com/pages/HK-Pro-Shooting-Team/136807359702070?ref=stream

HK makes it clear they would be willing to sell a civilian version if there was a market for it, and the words in the article were those of RECOIL only, not them.

CV67PAT · « **Reply #22 on:** September 12, 2012, 05:30:27 PM »

HK has always answered to market forces. The latest example has been their piston operated civilian version of the HK416. Also, when initially considered they were not going to make the uppers compatible with standard mil-spec AR platforms. Again, when market forces presented themselves, HK modified the final product to meet with demand of the US civilian market.

This, along with their supieror quality, makes HK THE premier firearms manufacturer in the world.

Yes, I drink the HK kool-aid. Mixed with the Colt kool-aid, of course.

gryphon · « **Reply #23 on:** September 13, 2012, 02:23:41 AM »

Quote from: TheQ on September 12, 2012, 08:36:31 AM

He is working on a news letter...

Vacation time. I am going to be traveling through the South and Southwest for the next four weeks, so I don't know how much I will get accomplished on the coding front. Will have opportunities to OC in many states, though.

CV67PAT · « **Reply #24 on:** September 13, 2012, 09:42:32 AM »

Quote from: gryphon on September 13, 2012, 02:23:41 AM

Vacation time. I am going to be traveling through the South and Southwest for the next four weeks, so I don't know how much I will get accomplished on the coding front. Will have opportunities to OC in many states, though.

You're going on vacation?!?!?

What will they do at work without you?

How will problems get solved?

Who will direct the work force?

How will anything get accomplished?!?!?

Don't you have a committee working on the newsletter? Autosurgeon has a committee working on the tri-folds.

TheQ · « **Reply #25 on:** September 13, 2012, 09:51:56 AM »

I was expecting that...don't discourage the fellow...!

CV67PAT · « **Reply #26 on:** September 13, 2012, 09:55:01 AM »

Quote from: TheQ on September 13, 2012, 09:51:56 AM

I was expecting that...don't discourage the fellow...!

Opps. I forgot to add those cute little smiley things to indicate I am attempting humor.

TheQ · « **Reply #27 on:** September 13, 2012, 10:05:13 AM »

Quote from: CV67PAT on September 13, 2012, 09:55:01 AM

Opps. I forgot to add those cute little smiley things to indicate I am attempting humor.

Over on OpenCarry.org you get moderated for using more than 5, you know!

CV67PAT · « **Reply #28 on:** September 13, 2012, 10:14:55 AM »

Quote from: TheQ on September 13, 2012, 10:05:13 AM

Over on OpenCarry.org you get moderated for using more than 5, you know!

I know. I was seeing if I could push the envelope here.

gryphon · « **Reply #29 on:** September 13, 2012, 10:52:57 AM »

Quote from: CV67PAT on September 13, 2012, 09:42:32 AM

You're going on vacation?!?!?

Yes.

I will be largely gone between now and mid-October.

If you can't cope and have to kill yourself, I will understand.

Dan

TheQ · « **Reply #30 on:** September 13, 2012, 11:04:49 AM »

Quote from: gryphon on September 13, 2012, 10:52:57 AM

Yes.

I will be largely gone between now and mid-October.

If you can't cope and have to kill yourself, I will understand.

Dan

"cheer"

METL · « **Reply #31 on:** September 13, 2012, 11:35:42 AM »

WOW!!! H&K really threw RECOIL -right- under the bus there didn't they! Hahahaha... hilarious. RECOIL tried to say it was HK's fault... Ummmm... how about NO says HK.... priceless.

Thanks Gryphon for keeping us up-to-date

CV67PAT · « **Reply #32 on:** September 13, 2012, 01:25:14 PM »

Quote from: gryphon on September 13, 2012, 10:52:57 AM

I will be largely gone between now and mid-October.

This just in...

Quote

Reuters
September 13, 2012
Detroit, Michigan

General Motors announced today that it is suspending all of its North American Operations.

Operations are not expected to return to normal until some time after mid-October.

No official reason has been given by the Government Automaker for the suspension of these operations. But unnamed sources attribute the temporary cessation of operations to the absence of qualified supervision of the Government Automaker.

Super Trucker · « **Reply #33 on:** September 13, 2012, 10:33:42 PM »

METL · « **Reply #34 on:** September 14, 2012, 08:36:14 AM »

Looks like ole numb nutz has stepped down.... finally! Had to happen. They lost millions in advertising revenue... this was the only way they could hope to recover any of it.

Quote from: Editor screw up

It is with deep sorrow that I announce I am stepping down as editor of Recoil, effective immediately.

It is very difficult for me to walk away from something I helped create, something that I loved doing, and something I firmly believed would appeal to a fresh new generation of gun enthusiasts, but I accept that the comments in my story in the current issue have made my position as editor of Reco
il untenable.

With that said, Recoil is bigger than any one person, and if my departure will allow Recoil to continue to grow and engage gun enthusiasts, then stepping down as editor is clearly the right thing for me to do.

I accept I made mistakes, and I apologize unreservedly for calling Recoil’s support for Second Amendment rights into question.

While I understand the passions aroused over this incident, the deeply hurtful words from some of my fellow gun enthusiasts have been painful to endure. I hope now we can all move on.

Finally, I would like to thank all those who have supported me over the past few days. These are the people who know me to be at heart a passionate gun enthusiast whose dream was to make something bold and new in firearms media.

Jerry Tsai

gryphon · « **Reply #35 on:** September 16, 2012, 01:49:03 AM »

Quote from: CV67PAT on September 13, 2012, 01:25:14 PM

This just in...

You can't trust those Limeys to get anything right.

gryphon · « **Reply #36 on:** September 16, 2012, 01:53:04 AM »

I wonder if Jerry Tsai will stay on under a pseudonym.

News:

Author Topic: Recoil magazine goes anti-freedom (Read 23091 times)