Author Topic: First LEO encounter while OCing  (Read 27180 times)

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Offline prospectpuppet

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First LEO encounter while OCing
« on: October 22, 2012, 09:05:49 PM »
Hello all, I just wanted to share with you my first open carry encounter with a LEO. I thought it was an interesting interaction. I was at the 7/11 in trenton at west road and grange. Every time I go there, there are two officers inside seemingly just hanging out, talking with the cashier, drinking coffee, etc. Whenever I go in there, they don't pay attention to me. OC'ing or not. Today was different. When I pulled into the lot, (I was with one friend and a family member, 3 of us total) the officers were joking around with the female driver of an SUV parked two spaces down. We walked in, bought our items and upon returning to the vehicle....the senior officer did the old "double-take" in my direction. I stood outside the vehicle talking to my friend because I knew the officer was going to approach me. I thought it'd be best to give him the fair opportunity to do so before I entered the vehicle. But he just stared at me. We made eye contact a few times but he said nothing. I decided that it was time to go, opened my door and sat down. Before I even closed the car door the officer said something to me about having a cpl. I didn't catch it so my response was, "what was that, sir?" He says, "you know, even though open carry is legal, you need a cpl to get into your vehicle with it. Otherwise it's a crime." I replied, "I know, I have one." At this point I realized that through his eyes, I very well may be breaking the law. He doesn't know. So I decided to voluntarily offer up my cpl and ID to help put him at ease. It worked...he glanced at my cards and asked why I chose to open carry. I informed him that I'm a member of MOC and that "this is what we do in order to educate and desensitize the public to the practice of open carry." His reply was "wow...well have a nice day then." His partner (still chatting with the SUV driver) turned asked if everything was ok. The officer I spoke with told him all was good and I returned to my vehicle and left without further issue. A great experience and I think it shows that open carry is becoming more accepted at least in the law enforcement community. I don't believe that encounter would have gone down like that only 5 year ago. Anyway, thanks for reading guys. Keep doing what you do, we're making history here. I'll be keeping you updated on my OC experiences in the future. Until then, keep calm and carry on.

Offline TheQ

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First LEO encounter while OCing
« Reply #1 on: October 22, 2012, 09:13:21 PM »
When he approached the vehicle I would have disclosed/provided my CPL and d/l as required by law.
I Am Not A Lawyer (nor a gunsmith).

Offline prospectpuppet

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Re: First LEO encounter while OCing
« Reply #2 on: October 22, 2012, 09:20:04 PM »
Do you think I'm going to start reaching for something as an officer who knows I have a firearm is walking to my vehicle??? Hell no. He said I need one to carry it, I said I have one and asked if he'd like to see it. I'm not going to start reaching for anything until he knows what I'm going after. That's how you get shot and I'd rather be judged by 12 of my peers than carried by 6 of them.

Offline gryphon

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Re: First LEO encounter while OCing
« Reply #3 on: October 22, 2012, 09:23:58 PM »
Even though it bothers me that he asked you why you chose to open carry, overall it was a good encounter.  Good job.

Offline TheQ

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First LEO encounter while OCing
« Reply #4 on: October 22, 2012, 09:24:37 PM »
Do you think I'm going to start reaching for something as an officer who knows I have a firearm is walking to my vehicle??? Hell no. He said I need one to carry it, I said I have one and asked if he'd like to see it. I'm not going to start reaching for anything until he knows what I'm going after. That's how you get shot and I'd rather be judged by 12 of my peers than carried by 6 of them.

Absolutely. You need to say, "I have a CPL and I'm carrying. My ID and CPL are in my wallet in my back pocket,"


...then wait for his move.
I Am Not A Lawyer (nor a gunsmith).

Offline WilDChilD

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Re: First LEO encounter while OCing
« Reply #5 on: October 22, 2012, 09:24:46 PM »
Do you think I'm going to start reaching for something as an officer who knows I have a firearm is walking to my vehicle??? Hell no. He said I need one to carry it, I said I have one and asked if he'd like to see it. I'm not going to start reaching for anything until he knows what I'm going after. That's how you get shot and I'd rather be judged by 12 of my peers than carried by 6 of them.
I am pretty sure Q was saying don't offer up your cpl and dl. If they ask that's one thing but when you say "here look at this" you give up some 4th amendment rights.

Offline gryphon

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Re: First LEO encounter while OCing
« Reply #6 on: October 22, 2012, 09:26:03 PM »
When he approached the vehicle I would have disclosed/provided my CPL and d/l as required by law.

When LEO was approaching he had not made a stop so I don't think it was required by law.  OP disclosed upon officer making contact.  I see no foul.

Offline Super Trucker

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Re: First LEO encounter while OCing
« Reply #7 on: October 22, 2012, 09:28:09 PM »
Do you think I'm going to start reaching for something as an officer who knows I have a firearm is walking to my vehicle??? Hell no. He said I need one to carry it, I said I have one and asked if he'd like to see it. I'm not going to start reaching for anything until he knows what I'm going after. That's how you get shot and I'd rather be judged by 12 of my peers than carried by 6 of them.

You might want to tone it down a notch or three.
TheQ didn't say to suddenly grab for anything, he said to do what the law says to do. "Yes Mr Popo I do have a CPL and as required by law am disclosing that to you right now"

Offline TheQ

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First LEO encounter while OCing
« Reply #8 on: October 22, 2012, 09:52:09 PM »
I'm a for not disclosing/providing ID while OCing. The moment you sit in your car, the game changes.
I Am Not A Lawyer (nor a gunsmith).

Offline gryphon

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Re: First LEO encounter while OCing
« Reply #9 on: October 22, 2012, 10:11:56 PM »
The moment you sit in your car, the game changes.

Seems to me you advocated for disclosing before the LEO even got to the car.  LEO and his partner are apparently c**k-hounds, having nothing better to do than routinely chat up the female Stop-and-Rob employees and customers.  He could have been walking toward some other nubile young lady on the other side of the OP who just pulled up.

I have no problem if the OP waits until the LEO actually reaches his car and says something--which is exactly what he did.  No foul.

Offline CV67PAT

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Re: First LEO encounter while OCing
« Reply #10 on: October 22, 2012, 10:17:57 PM »
Absolutely. You need to say, "I have a CPL and I'm carrying. My ID and CPL are in my wallet in my back pocket,"


...then wait for his move.

Can you please provide a cite for this?

I"ve searched everywhere and can find no requirement to immediately disclose the possession of a CPL.
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Offline TheQ

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First LEO encounter while OCing
« Reply #11 on: October 22, 2012, 10:18:04 PM »
Seems to me you advocated for disclosing before the LEO even got to the car.  LEO and his partner are apparently c**k-hounds, having nothing better to do than routinely chat up the female Stop-and-Rob employees and customers.  He could have been walking toward some other nubile young lady on the other side of the OP who just pulled up.

I have no problem if the OP waits until the LEO actually reaches his car and says something--which is exactly what he did.  No foul.

As soon as it becomes apparent you are being "stopped" while in a vehicle and as soon as the LEO is within normal conversation distance , disclosure us appropriate IMHO

Someone should school the cop the OP needs a CPL to even OC a gun at 7/11.
I Am Not A Lawyer (nor a gunsmith).

Offline TheQ

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First LEO encounter while OCing
« Reply #12 on: October 22, 2012, 10:22:08 PM »
Can you please provide a cite for this?

I"ve searched everywhere and can find no requirement to immediately disclose the possession of a CPL.

28.425f

(3) An individual licensed under this act to carry a concealed pistol and who is carrying a concealed pistol or a portable device that uses electro-muscular disruption technology and who is stopped by a peace officer shall immediately disclose to the peace officer that he or she is carrying a pistol or a portable device that uses electro-muscular disruption technology concealed upon his or her person or in his or her vehicle.

Ok...no mention of saying you have the CPL but....

(2) An individual who is licensed under this act to carry a concealed pistol and who is carrying a concealed pistol or a portable device that uses electro-muscular disruption technology shall show both of the following to a peace officer upon request by that peace officer:

(a) His or her license to carry a concealed pistol.

(b) His or her driver license or Michigan personal identification card.
I Am Not A Lawyer (nor a gunsmith).

Offline gryphon

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Re: First LEO encounter while OCing
« Reply #13 on: October 22, 2012, 10:29:47 PM »
As soon as it becomes apparent you are being "stopped" while in a vehicle and as soon as the LEO is within normal conversation distance , disclosure us appropriate IMHO

Oh, come on!  Like I'm going to yell back to a MSP trooper as soon as he's within hearing distance as he's walking up to me?

The OP hadn't even been approached.  Some random LEO was walking toward him in his general direction.   No contact had even been made yet.

I disagree with you.

Offline CV67PAT

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Re: First LEO encounter while OCing
« Reply #14 on: October 22, 2012, 10:30:00 PM »
28.425f

(3) An individual licensed under this act to carry a concealed pistol and who is carrying a concealed pistol or a portable device that uses electro-muscular disruption technology and who is stopped by a peace officer shall immediately disclose to the peace officer that he or she is carrying a pistol or a portable device that uses electro-muscular disruption technology concealed upon his or her person or in his or her vehicle.

Ok...no mention of saying you have the CPL but....

(2) An individual who is licensed under this act to carry a concealed pistol and who is carrying a concealed pistol or a portable device that uses electro-muscular disruption technology shall show both of the following to a peace officer upon request by that peace officer:

(a) His or her license to carry a concealed pistol.

(b) His or her driver license or Michigan personal identification card.

 The couple times I have been "stopped" I immediately told the cops "I have a gun."

They asked where it was and said don't reach for it. They then asked for my I.D.

The only time I have been asked for a CPL was when I wasn't even carrying. The trooper asked if I had a CPL. When I responded in the affirmative, he asked if he could see it. I showed it to him and he sent me on my way with a warning to not do what it was thatg caused him to stop me in the first place.
Want to keep informed of events in your area? Go to http://www.miopencarry.org/update

Offline TheQ

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First LEO encounter while OCing
« Reply #15 on: October 22, 2012, 10:33:47 PM »
Oh, come on!  Like I'm going to yell back to a MSP trooper as soon as he's within hearing distance as he's walking up to me?

The OP hadn't even been approached.  Some random LEO was walking toward him in his general direction.   No contact had even been made yet.

I disagree with you.

I said normal conversation distance. Didn't say anything about yelling.
I Am Not A Lawyer (nor a gunsmith).

Offline prospectpuppet

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Re: First LEO encounter while OCing
« Reply #16 on: October 22, 2012, 10:43:47 PM »
Guys relax. The officers were both about three or four feet away from my car door before he began his approach toward me. Would that qualify as conversation distance? Should I have shouted "officers! I have a gun and a license to carry it!" As I entered my vehicle within arms reach of them? I think not. Regardless of what anyone's opinion is, I handled it fine. I'm not dead or in jail and neither is the cop. I'll call it a win. 

Offline gryphon

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Re: First LEO encounter while OCing
« Reply #17 on: October 22, 2012, 10:52:13 PM »
I just usually wave my gun around in my hand yelling, "I have a gun!"  But your way worked, too, which I think was perfectly appropriate.  Any time a LEO doesn't go slide-lock on you is a good encounter.

Offline CV67PAT

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Re: First LEO encounter while OCing
« Reply #18 on: October 22, 2012, 10:58:53 PM »
Guys relax. The officers were both about three or four feet away from my car door before he began his approach toward me. Would that qualify as conversation distance? Should I have shouted "officers! I have a gun and a license to carry it!" As I entered my vehicle within arms reach of them? I think not. Regardless of what anyone's opinion is, I handled it fine. I'm not dead or in jail and neither is the cop. I'll call it a win.

You did fine. This is all just commentary. Don't take any of it personal. Especially from TheQ.
Want to keep informed of events in your area? Go to http://www.miopencarry.org/update

Offline prospectpuppet

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Re: First LEO encounter while OCing
« Reply #19 on: October 22, 2012, 11:07:23 PM »
You did fine. This is all just commentary. Don't take any of it personal. Especially from TheQ.

I'm not taking anything personally :) you're all a great group of people (including TheQ) and I support everything you do, of course. Just friendly conversation...anyway, thanks for your thoughts everyone