Couple questions from new open carrier

[32_d3gr33s]

Couple questions for you...  Keep in mind I DON'T have a cpl.

Rivertown mall...  Am I allowed to open carry there? I visit there quite often and never noticed any signs prohibiting it.

Also I know it's a grey area, but does anyone have any experience open carrying on a motorcycle?   I've have had numerous people tell me I can legally do it because I'm not "in" a vehicle and the weapon will be openly visible at all times.  I just don't want to be a guinea pig for it.  Thanks!

[TheQ]

Couple questions for you...  Keep in mind I DON'T have a cpl.

Rivertown mall...  Am I allowed to open carry there? I visit there quite often and never noticed any signs prohibiting it.

Also I know it's a grey area, but does anyone have any experience open carrying on a motorcycle?   I've have had numerous people tell me I can legally do it because I'm not "in" a vehicle and the weapon will be openly visible at all times.  I just don't want to be a guinea pig for it.  Thanks!

Pretty big grey area.  Don't do it w/o a CPL unless you're signing up to be a test case.  If you are, cool.  Good luck with your case and hope you have money

We hope you don't lose, it's a 5 year felony.  But if you do, please take it to the Court of Appeals so we can have some state-wide precedent. 

See MCL 750.227

(2) A person shall not carry a pistol concealed on or about his or her person, or, whether concealed or otherwise, in a vehicle operated or occupied by the person, except in his or her dwelling house, place of business, or on other land possessed by the person, without a license to carry the pistol as provided by law and if licensed, shall not carry the pistol in a place or manner inconsistent with any restrictions upon such license.

Note the word "in".  The crux here is you are on a bike, not in.  Again, big grey area.  Looking to be a test case?

[gryphon]

Don't know how you'd fare in court (I suspect you'd win) but am confident you'd win in the Court of Appeals.  Not only does the law state "in" a vehicle, which you are not, but I think the "intent" of the legislature is clear: visibility.  If you are in a car it's not visible.  If you are on a MC, it is.

That being said, are you willing to go to court and defend your position should some a-hole LEO jam you up?

A CPL is cheap insurance.  Besides, few idiots but me ride a MC in snow-storms.

As to any mall, yes you can OC unless they ask you to stop or leave.  At that point if you refuse you can be trespassed.

[32_d3gr33s]

Pretty big grey area.  Don't do it w/o a CPL unless you're signing up to be a test case.  If you are, cool.  Good luck with your case and hope you have money

We hope you don't lose, it's a 5 year felony.  But if you do, please take it to the Court of Appeals so we can have some state-wide precedent. 

See MCL 750.227

(2) A person shall not carry a pistol concealed on or about his or her person, or, whether concealed or otherwise, in a vehicle operated or occupied by the person, except in his or her dwelling house, place of business, or on other land possessed by the person, without a license to carry the pistol as provided by law and if licensed, shall not carry the pistol in a place or manner inconsistent with any restrictions upon such license.

Note the word "in".  The crux here is you are on a bike, not in.  Again, big grey area.  Looking to be a test case?

[32_d3gr33s]

I don't know why my last post was just a quote, but I was trying to say this:
I am half tempted to...   I talked to a couple guys a silver bullet and they said they've not heard of anyone getting in trouble for it....   I probably won't be riding much until next spring but if it nice out, I would like to give it a try if I was ~80% sure I wouldn't get stopped for it.  Any open carriers WITH a cpl carry on their bike get stopped to see if they had a cpl?  I could get stopped for that reason alone because it is a potential felony right?

[TheQ]

I don't know why my last post was just a quote, but I was trying to say this:
I am half tempted to...   I talked to a couple guys a silver bullet and they said they've not heard of anyone getting in trouble for it....   I probably won't be riding much until next spring but if it nice out, I would like to give it a try if I was ~80% sure I wouldn't get stopped for it.  Any open carriers WITH a cpl carry on their bike get stopped to see if they had a cpl?  I could get stopped for that reason alone because it is a potential felony right?

[gryphon]

  Any open carriers WITH a cpl carry on their bike get stopped to see if they had a cpl?

Pretty sure I read a thread about a guy getting stopped for MC OC on OCDO last year.  Didn't go anywhere.  Don't remember if he had a CPL or not.

  I could get stopped for that reason alone because it is a potential felony right?

Sort of.  A LEO can stop you for anything, whether his stop is lawful or not.  If unlawful, it will be up to you to fight it in court and potentially sue him/them.  Unless your violation was particularly egregious, a lawsuit AGAINST them will go nowhere and probably no attorney will take it.  I.e., if you are stopped for simple OC and the LEO is rude or an idiot, deal with the police chief and hope it gets written up in the LEO's jacket.  If they call out the entire shift and hold you at gunpoint, you have a better lawsuit.

[Pond Scum]

River town Mall has a no weapons rule posted in all the fine print on the sign by the doors.    I CC there and figure if they spot me I'll just leave.

I was stopped on my motorcycle in downtown Grand Rapids last summer for no license plate while OC'ing.  The policeman was very professional, very polite, and very nice.   I did not declare my CPL since I was OC.  He said I should have as the motorcycle is a motor vechicle. No discussion about in versus on.   I didn't push or question it.  It would have been easy for him to arrest me and  let the courts figure it out and I don't want to be the test case.     He let me go without any citations.    I was happy and he didn't have to do any paperwork. 

[Dbilger]

I have been ocing for over a year. When it is nice out, above 40, I ride my mc. I have never been pulled over. I have seen a few leo notice my sidearm. I carry it in a tactical on my right side. Last year I took a trip out of state and wore it open to the border, but when I called to see if oc was ok in OH and IN they said no so Cpl was used while I was down there.

[32_d3gr33s]

^thanks, but I don't have a cpl.  That's what I'm trying to figure out.

[CV67PAT]

I have been ocing for over a year. When it is nice out, above 40, I ride my mc. I have never been pulled over. I have seen a few leo notice my sidearm. I carry it in a tactical on my right side. Last year I took a trip out of state and wore it open to the border, but when I called to see if oc was ok in OH and IN they said no so Cpl was used while I was down there.

WRONG. This is why it is not advisable to get legal information from law enforcement sources.

[gryphon]

when I called to see if oc was ok in OH and IN they said no so Cpl was used while I was down there.

Incorrect. Open carry is certainly legal in Ohio and Indiana.  In fact, I frequently OC in Indiana.

[Jeff]

I watched all parts of that motorcycle open carry video and I have some questions.

Did the friend with him have to obey the officer and actually leave?  I believe I would have refused to leave and say that I am saying as a witness and to observe and I would have remained quiet.

What about open carry on a bicycle...without a CPL?

Did that driving without insurance stick considering he got pulled over for something that was legal?