Author Topic: Flint township board  (Read 11649 times)

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Offline kj4278

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Flint township board
« on: December 07, 2012, 06:34:51 PM »
Flint township board just put in place a "code of conduct " which bans guns from their meetings which are held in a public building.  Any suggestions on a course of action?

Offline CrossPistols

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Re: Flint township board
« Reply #1 on: December 07, 2012, 07:33:45 PM »
Does anyone live in Flint still?
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Offline TheQ

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Flint township board
« Reply #2 on: December 07, 2012, 08:54:41 PM »
I Am Not A Lawyer (nor a gunsmith).

Offline venator

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Re: Flint township board
« Reply #3 on: December 08, 2012, 10:25:44 AM »
Flint township board just put in place a "code of conduct " which bans guns from their meetings which are held in a public building.  Any suggestions on a course of action?

Ah yeah, they can't do that legally.  Get me the details, that is some evidence that they have this policy, minutes of the meeting a memo, etc. and I'll see what I can do.
Family book on OPEN CARRY go to: http://www.myparentsopencarry.com/
Looking forward to having more smites than posts.  Thanks all.
The above are my opinions only.  Please seek an attorney concerning all questions of law.

Offline northofnowhere

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Re: Flint township board
« Reply #4 on: December 08, 2012, 02:03:48 PM »
26:00 minutes into video.  They call it meeting room conduct rules.  Police chief and trustees didn't clearly know any laws.  Police chief did know of the CADL case and brought it up as the building is a public building but he wasn't sure other then you can not prohibit guns in a public building.  Then Police Chief did state he doesn't allow firearms in the police department as it is NOT a public building.  Unanimous vote and all voted for conduct rules to be approved.

You unfortunately can not fast forward easily until it queues up which takes time, took me about ten minutes to get to and find the right spot.  Printed minutes are not available.  Maybe someone should forward a cliff notes version of the law to the Police Chief as he bans weapons as well from his non public department building.

-jason r.

http://flinttownship.org/default.aspx/MenuItemID/521/MenuGroup/Meeting+Videos.htm
Jason E. Reese aka northofnowher

Offline ken243

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Re: Flint township board
« Reply #5 on: December 08, 2012, 06:56:33 PM »
To the OP, if you would like help correcting this let me know. I live in the area and would be happy to help out.
Common sense, isn't.
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Offline TheQ

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Flint township board
« Reply #6 on: December 08, 2012, 07:00:28 PM »
I think Brian Jeffs has plans to broach this quietly with the city first. If that doesn't work, we'll evaluate more...assertive...options.
I Am Not A Lawyer (nor a gunsmith).

Offline kj4278

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Re: Flint township board
« Reply #7 on: December 08, 2012, 10:19:01 PM »
The Q - forgive my ignorance, I'm not sure who Brian Jeff's is. You mention the city of Flint, did you mean the township?

I do want to address my township board but never have done anything like this before. Any help or support would greatly be appreciated.

Offline TheQ

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Re: Flint township board
« Reply #8 on: December 08, 2012, 10:37:32 PM »
The Q - forgive my ignorance, I'm not sure who Brian Jeff's is. You mention the city of Flint, did you mean the township?

I do want to address my township board but never have done anything like this before. Any help or support would greatly be appreciated.

Brian is venator
I Am Not A Lawyer (nor a gunsmith).

Offline TucTom

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Re: Flint township board
« Reply #9 on: December 09, 2012, 12:33:51 AM »
Kj, it looks like others are going to work on this too. But use the letter in the link provided by Q. I've used it for an issue with quick results (well response anyway).  I sent an email off about township park illegal posting and received a response in 2 days. I don't think I would have gotten anywhere with out the help provided.

Offline CrossPistols

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Re: Flint township board
« Reply #10 on: December 09, 2012, 03:56:53 PM »
To the OP, if you would like help correcting this let me know. I live in the area and would be happy to help out.

I will help as well if you want it, I'm just down the road front Flint Twp.
Hotel Sierra Lima Delta!

Offline venator

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Re: Flint township board
« Reply #11 on: December 10, 2012, 09:43:24 AM »
So is anyone sending a email or am I going to do it?  Let me know.
Family book on OPEN CARRY go to: http://www.myparentsopencarry.com/
Looking forward to having more smites than posts.  Thanks all.
The above are my opinions only.  Please seek an attorney concerning all questions of law.

Offline ken243

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Re: Flint township board
« Reply #12 on: December 10, 2012, 09:46:54 AM »
So is anyone sending a email or am I going to do it?  Let me know.

As posted above I was under the impression you were. I can send one out today if needed. I can also go to their next meeting if they decide to blow me off.
Common sense, isn't.
I can't fix stupid.

Offline venator

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Re: Flint township board
« Reply #13 on: December 10, 2012, 12:41:19 PM »
As posted above I was under the impression you were. I can send one out today if needed. I can also go to their next meeting if they decide to blow me off.

I would recommend you do too as a resident, I will also send something to the city and the chief (About his ban in the PD building also) and the attorney.  You should follow up by attending the next meeting as well. 
Family book on OPEN CARRY go to: http://www.myparentsopencarry.com/
Looking forward to having more smites than posts.  Thanks all.
The above are my opinions only.  Please seek an attorney concerning all questions of law.

Offline venator

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Re: Flint township board
« Reply #14 on: December 10, 2012, 05:56:46 PM »
After sending the Township Supervisor and email in this regard I received this from her.

Mr. Jeffs,
 
You have nothing to worry about, we will comply with the law.
 
Karyn


I recommend a resident follow up on this by attending a meeting while OCing.
Family book on OPEN CARRY go to: http://www.myparentsopencarry.com/
Looking forward to having more smites than posts.  Thanks all.
The above are my opinions only.  Please seek an attorney concerning all questions of law.

Offline autosurgeon

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Re: Flint township board
« Reply #15 on: December 10, 2012, 06:25:12 PM »
Sounds like they knee jerked without checking legality. Or they just want to intimidate people.

Sent from my Inspire 4G using Tapatalk 2

Anything I post may be my opinion and not the law... you are responsible to do your own verification.

Blackstone (1753-1765) maintains that "the law holds that it is better that ten guilty persons escape than that one innocent suffer."

Offline ken243

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Re: Flint township board
« Reply #16 on: December 10, 2012, 09:07:25 PM »
To the OP, would you like to go to the next meeting? I would be happy to go along.
Common sense, isn't.
I can't fix stupid.

Offline venator

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Re: Flint township board
« Reply #17 on: December 11, 2012, 09:37:22 AM »
Received this from the CHief in regards to my emailed concerns.

Dear Mr. Jeffs,
 
I received the email that you sent to our web site.  You voiced your concern over a recent decision made by the Charter Township of Flint Board of Trustees.  It is my understanding that Township Supervisor Karyn Miller has or will respond to your correspondence.  The purpose of my email is to notify you specifically that the decision made by the Township Board of Trustees does not impact the public lobby of the police station located at 5200 Norko Drive.  Our lobby is open to the public 24/7.  Anyone who is lawfully carrying a firearm is allowed to enter.  There is signage posted in the lobby which notifies visitors that “firearms” are not permitted in the secured portion of the building.  The secured portion is closed to the public and visitors must be escorted by a police department employee.  If you have additional questions or concerns, do not hesitate to call.   
 
George N. Sippert
Chief of Police
Flint Township Police Department
5200 Norko Drive
Flint, MI 48532
(810)600-3250
Family book on OPEN CARRY go to: http://www.myparentsopencarry.com/
Looking forward to having more smites than posts.  Thanks all.
The above are my opinions only.  Please seek an attorney concerning all questions of law.

Offline kj4278

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Re: Flint township board
« Reply #18 on: December 11, 2012, 10:40:01 PM »
Venator- would you mind posting what you sent to the township supervisor? I will try to get to the next meeting to follow up on this matter. Just looking for a reference point.

Thanks,
Kevin

Offline venator

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Re: Flint township board
« Reply #19 on: December 17, 2012, 07:55:15 PM »
Venator- would you mind posting what you sent to the township supervisor? I will try to get to the next meeting to follow up on this matter. Just looking for a reference point.

Thanks,
Kevin
Dear Ms. Miller:
 
My name is Brian Jeffs, Director of Research for Michigan Open Carry, Inc., and I want to inform you that Flint Township has enacted a unlawful firearm ban at public meetings and in public buildings, including the police department building lobby.  This firearm ban from township meetings/buildings is in violation of Michigan law MCL 123.1102 which prohibits all local units of government from enforcing ANY firearm law, rules or restrictions stricter than those of the state.

In 1990, the Michigan legislature enacted MCL 123.1102 which provides, in pertinent part:  A local unit of government shall not impose special taxation on, enact or enforce any ordinance or regulation pertaining to, or regulate in any other manner the ownership, registration, purchase, sale, transfer, transportation, or possession of pistols or other firearms, ammunition for pistols or other firearms, or components of pistols or other firearms, except as otherwise provided by federal law or a law of this state. 

THE MICHIGAN  COURT of APPEALS CONCLUDED: April 29, 2003 v No. 242237 (MCRGO v. Ferndale)

“In sum, we conclude that § 1102 is a statute that specifically imposes a prohibition on local units of government from enacting and enforcing any ordinances or regulations pertaining to the transportation and possession of firearms, and thus preempts any ordinance or regulation of a local unit of government concerning these areas.

Further, we conclude that the specific language of the 2000 amendments to MCL 28.421 et seq., particularly §§ 5c and 5o, which were adopted more than a decade after the enactment of § 1102, do not repeal § 1102 or otherwise reopen this area to local regulation of the carrying of firearms.17 Accordingly, we hold that the Ferndale ordinance is preempted by state law and, consequently, we reverse.  MCRGO v. Ferndale: The Michigan Court of Appeals held that local units of government may not impose restrictions upon firearms possession.”

In 2012 THE MICHIGAN  COURT of APPEALS CONCLUDED: October 25, 2012 V No. 304582 (CADL V MOC, Inc.)

“We conclude that state law preempts CADL’s weapon policy to the extent that it attempts to regulate firearms contrary to the restrictions set forth in MCL 123.1102.”

I ask that the city rescind this unlawful firearm ban and remove any signage or notice that prohibits firearms from all public places. If you have any question for me please contact me via email. 

I ask that you notify me with a response within 7 business days.  I thank you for your time and effort in this regard.

FIREARMS AND AMMUNITION (EXCERPT)
 
Act 319 of 1990 123.1102 Regulation of pistols or other firearms.
 
Sec. 2.
A local unit of government shall not impose special taxation on, enact or enforce any ordinance or regulation pertaining to, or regulate in any other manner the ownership, registration, purchase, sale, transfer, transportation, or possession of pistols or other firearms, ammunition for pistols or other firearms, or components of pistols or other firearms, except as otherwise provided by federal law or a law of this state.

The following links provide the specific places where firearms cannot be carried.

Places a concealed firearm cannot be possessed:
 
http://www.legislature.mi.gov/(S(3pbzmc55ka0okqzv43efw0eq))/mileg.aspx?page=GetObject&objectname=mcl-28-425o
 
Sincerely,
 
Brian Jeffs, M.S. C.P.G.
Director of Research
Michigan Open Carry, Inc.
Family book on OPEN CARRY go to: http://www.myparentsopencarry.com/
Looking forward to having more smites than posts.  Thanks all.
The above are my opinions only.  Please seek an attorney concerning all questions of law.