Author Topic: Why Open Carry?  (Read 10967 times)

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Offline redskin

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Why Open Carry?
« on: July 19, 2010, 12:33:14 PM »
I might have missed it, but I was browsing the website for an ordered, succinct, and well thought-out answer to the question: Why Open Carry?

I don't need a reason, I do it everyday, but it seems like it would be a topic we would want to be easily accessible to the new, the curious, and the opposed.
A man's country is not a certain area of land, of mountains, rivers and woods, but a principle; and patriotism is loyalty to that principle.

Offline Bronson

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Re: Why Open Carry?
« Reply #1 on: July 19, 2010, 01:09:31 PM »
Here's an article written by a gentleman that goes by Mainsail on OCDO.

The Open Carry Argument

My primary goal when I’m out and about, besides whatever I went out and about to do, is to go about peaceably and not be the victim of a violent crime. To that end I carry a firearm whenever I go out as well as follow all the other standard safety practices like maintaining situational awareness, staying out of high crime areas, and avoiding confrontation. I also have a larger overall goal of making it through my life without shooting anyone. Simply put, I don’t want to be responsible, legally or morally, for another’s death. Those two goals might appear at first blush to be mutually exclusive, and with concealed carry it would be a difficult set of goals to realize.

Carry of any firearm or other weapon for defensive purposes is a solemn responsibility. Those of us that do (openly or concealed) are mortified by the idea, constantly promoted by the pacifists, that our behavior is more reckless because we are armed. In other words, because we carry a handgun we take more risks than we would if we were unarmed. While it would be dishonest to claim we are all responsible gun owners, it is my belief that the vast majority of us are. Regardless of what or how you carry, you need to come to the realization that you are setting yourself up to lose. Whenever you are placed in a defensive situation, you will always lose; it’s only the degree of loss that’s negotiable. Ayoob hits on this in his book, In the Gravest Extreme. He suggests tossing the robber a small wad of cash and moving off, even if you could prevail with a weapon. There’s a very good reason for this. Regardless of how skilled you are at drawing your weapon, you are going to lose. It may be only a minor loss, like being very shaken up and not sleeping well for a few days, or it may be a major loss, like becoming fertilizer, or (most likely) it may be somewhere in-between, but you always lose. Your life will not be the same even if you prevail.

Carrying a concealed firearm presents to a criminal that I am unarmed. Every study I’ve ever read, not most but every study, says that criminals will avoid an armed person or home when selecting a victim. That only makes sense, right? Robbers, rapists, or carjackers might be dumb and opportunistic, but they have the same instinctual sense of self preservation we all have. Hyenas don’t attack lions to steal the gazelle the lions have just killed. It’s all about risk management; are the potential gains (a tasty gazelle dinner) worth the risks (pain and damage the lion’s teeth will cause), and does the hyena really need to test the lion to figure out the answer? No, the hyena can see the lion’s teeth and knows to stay well clear.

Deterrent Value:
When I’m carrying concealed I feel like my ‘teeth’ are hidden, and thus of no real deterrent value. If I appear unarmed then I am unarmed in the eyes of the robber, I appear as easy a target as almost anyone else out on the street. My probability of being a victim of a crime, violent or otherwise, is completely unchanged by the fact that I have hidden beneath my shirt the means to defend myself. My goal, however, is not to be a victim in the first place, remember? I don’t want to be a victim that fought back successfully and triumphed; I prefer to not be victimized at all. I recognize that there are some people who (think they) want to be victimized so they can whip out their concealed firearm and ‘surprise’ the mugger; that is, in my opinion, foolish immaturity. Concealed carry is good; it throws a wrench in the works for criminals who might see the teeming masses as a smorgasbord of financial gain. This deterrent effect is, nonetheless, indirect and often nil. At some point the thug will weigh the risks vs. the gains; is his current desperation for money/drugs/booze/gold grille greater than the gamble that one of those people might be carrying a gun? If he decides to play the odds, which helped along with surprise tip the scale in his favor, he will attack. Will his attack allow enough time for me to draw my concealed firearm to affect a defense? Maybe, but then again, maybe not.

Remember, I don’t want to be a victim and I don’t want to shoot anyone. So how do I realize both goals; or how do I make them inclusive? I can do that through open carry. By making it clear and obvious that I am armed, that I have teeth, I tip the risk scale to the point that the criminal’s gains are far outweighed by the risk. There is no ambiguity when the thug is doing his risk assessment, there’s something right there in plain sight that can quickly and painfully change or terminate his life. You may not think his life has much value, but as I mentioned before, he has the same sense of self preservation as any other living creature and to him it’s every bit as valuable as yours is to you. It would be foolish to ignore this indisputable fact when you develop your overall tactical strategy.

The Five Stages of Violent Crime
I am a firm believer in this defense theology and urge anyone who carries a firearm for protection (and even those who do not) to follow the link and read it carefully. Please, for your and your family’s sake, read that. Drill down into the hyperlinks for better explanations; absorb as much information as you can. A violent crime does not begin at the point where one person with ill intent draws a weapon or attacks another.

The Five Stages of Violent Crime:
Crime and violence are processes that take time to develop. The attack is not the first step, the preliminary triangle must be built. There are five distinct stages that are easily identified:
1) Intent
2) Interview
3) Positioning
4) Attack
5) Reaction
I do not believe the act begins after the BG has made his intentions known by drawing on you (attack); it began when he formed the intent. Well, there’s not a lot I can do personally to stop another’s intent, so I need to look a little farther along in the sequence and try to derail that train before it gets to the attack. For the sake of argument, let’s remove weapons from the equation for just a moment. A 5’2” unarmed attacker isn’t going to choose a 6’6” victim over a 5’1” victim, right? He’s going to attack the easier target. Now let’s come back to the reality of violent crime and add back the weapons. Concealed carry presumes it is better to wait until the opponent has drawn his knife or gun and then try to ‘fix’ the situation. It’s seems a bit foolish to promote the idea that it’s better to attempt to stop a violent crime in the fourth stage when you could instead prevent it in the second. A concealed weapon cannot deter an attack at the ‘interview’ stage; it’s completely ineffectual in that role. Open carry is the only method that provides a direct deterrent. Let’s say the bad-guy missed the openly carried pistol and holster during the interview stage, and has proceeded to the ‘positioning’ stage. Chances are pretty good he’ll see it at some point then, right? Then, let’s say the planets have all aligned just so and he, for whatever reason, has begun his attack despite your openly carried sidearm. At this point, the OCer is on level footing with the CCer, the attack has begun. Who has the advantage? Well, I’m going to say that with all things being equal (skill level and equipment) the OCer has a speed of draw advantage over the CCer.

First One To Be Shot:
There are some who criticize open carry and claim it will make you more of a target or ‘the first one shot’ when a robber walks into the 7-11, despite the absolute lack of credible evidence that this has ever happened. If the robber walks in and sees that you’re armed, his whole plan has encountered an unexpected variable. In bank robberies where he might expect to see an armed guard he will have already factored that possibility into his plan, but only for the armed guard, not for open or concealed carry citizens. No robber robs a bank without at least a rudimentary plan. Nevertheless, being present for a bank robbery is an extremely remote possibility for most of us regardless of our preferred method of handgun carry, so let’s go back in the 7-11. If the robber sees someone is armed he is forced to either significantly alter the plan or abort it outright. Robbing is an inherently apprehensive occupation, and one that doesn’t respond well to instant modifications. He is not prepared to commit murder when he only planned for larceny. He knows that a petty robbery will not garner the intense police manhunt a murder would. He doesn’t know if you’re an armed citizen or a police officer and isn’t going to take the time to figure it out. Either way, if someone in the 7-11 is unexpectedly armed, how many others might be similarly adorned and where might they be? Does this unexpectedly armed individual have a partner who is likewise armed nearby, someone who is watching right now? Self preservation compels him to abort the plan for one that is less risky. So we see that the logic matches the history; open carriers are not the first ones shot because it doesn’t make sense in any common street crime scenario that they would be. If your personal self protection plan emphasizes “Hollywood” style crimes over the more realistic street mugging, it might be best to stay home.

Surprise:
Probably the most common condemnation of open carry comes from the armchair tacticians who believe it’s better to have the element of surprise in a criminal encounter. Although this was touched on in the previous paragraph about deterrence, I’ll expand on it specifically here because there are some important truths you need to consider before you lean too heavily on this false support. Surprise as a defensive tactic is often based on unrealistic or ill-thought out scenarios, and seems to exist only in the minds of concealed carry firearms proponents. The circumstance where several street toughs surround and taunt you for a while before robbing you, like in some Charles Bronson movie, is not realistic; the mugger wants to get in and out as fast as possible. In most cases you will have only seconds to realize what’s happening, make a decision, and react. Imagine you’re walking along the sidewalk when two gangsta looking teenagers suddenly appear at the corner coming in the opposite direction. You have only seconds to react if their intent was to victimize you. Do you draw your concealed firearm now or wait until there’s an actual visible threat? If they are just on their way to church and you pull a gun on them, you are the criminal and you will likely forever lose your firearms rights for such a foolish action. If you don’t draw and they pull a knife or pistol when they’re just a couple steps away, your only options are draw (if you think you can) or comply. Imagine staring at the shiny blade of a knife being held by a very nervous and violent mugger, three inches from your or your wife’s throat and having to decide whether or not you have time to draw from concealment. The element of surprise may not do you any good; in fact the only surprising thing that might happen is that your concealed carry pistol gets taken along with your wallet. The thug will later get a good chuckle with his buddies about how you brought a gun to a knife fight. The simple truth is that while surprise is a monumentally superior tactical maneuver, it is exclusively an offensive action, not a defensive one. What many internet commandos call ‘defensive surprise’ is nothing more than damage control, a last ditch effort to fight your way back out of a dangerous situation. I am not aware of any army that teaches using surprise as a defense against attack. No squad of soldiers goes on patrol with their weapons hidden so that they can ‘surprise’ the enemy should they walk into an ambush.

It Will Get Stolen:
Another common criticism of open carry is that the firearm itself will be the target of theft, prompting a criminal to attack simply to get the gun from you. Like the previous example of being the first one shot in a robbery, above, this is despite the fact that there is no credible evidence it happens. It also blindly ignores the more obvious fact that anything you possess can make you the target of a crime, be it a car, a watch, or even a female companion (girlfriend, wife, or daughter). Crooks commonly steal for only one of two reasons; to get something you have that they want, or to get something that you have so they can sell it and buy something they want. I don’t claim it could never happen; just that it’s so remote a possibility that it doesn’t warrant drastic alterations to our self defense strategies. If you believe otherwise, leave your wife, children, watch, sunglasses, jewelry, and cell phone at home, hop into your Pinto wagon, and head out to do your thing. Very often, someone critical of open carry will cite some example of a uniformed police officer who was targeted by a violent criminal. They assume the officer was targeted solely to steal his firearm but there is never any real proof of this. What is more likely is that the officer was targeted merely for being a police officer and the gun was stolen as a byproduct of the attack. However, let’s suppose, for argument, that a police officer really was attacked just to get his firearm. What actions did the police department take to prevent it from reoccurring? Did they demand that their officers carry concealed? No, of course not. You should, like the police, prioritize your defense strategy for the most likely threat first, and the least likely last.

It Scares People:
One other statement against open carry I hear is that it damages public perception of firearms owners, or that by carrying openly we are not being good ambassadors to the public. While there are some people who have a genuine fear of firearms, due either to some horrible past experience or anti-gun indoctrination, the majority of people are either indifferent to them or quite fascinated by them. I’ve never kept track of the dozens of fellow citizens I’ve encountered who have marveled at the idea of open carry, but I do know exactly how many have expressed displeasure at it; one. People are scared of many things for many reasons; however, pretending those things do not exist only perpetuates the fear. Someone who is disturbed by open carry is going to be every bit as disturbed by concealed carry. The only effective way to overcome a fear is to come to the intellectual realization that the phobia is based on emotion and not on fact. By being a firsthand witness that a firearm was carried responsibly and peaceably, and wasn’t being carried in the commission of a crime, one who was apprehensive about firearms discovers their fear is not fact based, but emotional. Thus, open carry can be a very effectual way of helping to overcome the emotionally based fear of the firearm. After all, you’d be much more likely to believe in ghosts if you saw one rather than if you listened to a ghost story around a campfire. In other words, we give significantly more credibility to the things we experience than we do to the things we hear. The bottom line is that this argument is made by people who don’t, cant, or haven’t carried openly; those of us who do so on a regular basis have an entirely different experience.

I’m Not Comfortable Carrying Openly:
This is really the only reasonable argument against open carry for an individual. We all have a comfort zone for any aspect of our lives and we prefer to stay within that comfort zone. We all agree that it’s better to be armed and never need the firearm than it is to need it and not have it. There is a point where concealing your firearm becomes so problematic, due to conditions like temperature or comfort, that some choose to either leave it behind or carry in such a way that it would be difficult or impossible to draw it quickly. If it takes me five or six seconds to draw my firearm from deep concealment and I had sufficient time before hand to actually do so, I would prefer to use that five or six seconds to avoid the entire encounter. I’m glad we have concealed carry laws in most of the states; it empowers and protects not only us but the general public through the offset deterrent effect. Some of us, however, choose the more direct deterrent effect of open carry.

Conclusion
No, open carry is not the be-all-end-all of self defense any more than concealed carry is. The purpose of this essay is not to convince you to carry a firearm openly, but to merely point out the reasoning I used to determine that it is often the best option for me. If you think otherwise, please feel free to write an essay of your own outlining the reasoning you used. I would suggest that you avoid the intellectual mistake of emphasizing rare or unlikely defense scenarios that many of us will never experience. I believe one should prioritize for the most likely threat, not the least likely threat. I don’t put Hollywood style bank robberies high on my threat list because I rarely go into a bank and those types of robberies are very rare themselves. I live in the most crime riddled city in the northwest; the most likely threat here is some young male with a knife or gun trying to carjack me or mug me on the street, in the park, or in a parking lot. With this knowledge I build my personal self protection plan based on that manner of attack. This may not suit you, especially if you live in Hollywood.
Those who expect to reap the benefits of freedom, must, like men, undergo the fatigue of supporting it. – Thomas Paine

Offline Bronson

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Re: Why Open Carry?
« Reply #2 on: July 19, 2010, 01:14:09 PM »
Here's one I posted on OCDO when somebody else asked this question:

I carry both ways and it's mostly dependent on what I'm wearing.  My jackets all hang lower than my firearm so when the coat is on I'm CC but if it comes off I'm usually OC.  In weather that doesn't require a jacket I primarily OC.

I have several different reasons.

Sorry for the length of this.

Tactical:  The research that I've read (http://www.nraila.org/issues/articles/read.aspx?id=117) says that a large majority of felons told the researchers that one of their greatest fears when committing a crime against another person was that the victim was armed.  They also told researchers that they would go for the soft target over the hard target even if the hard target would garner them a bigger take.  They would rather rob 30 little old ladies for $10 each than one muscle bound cage fighter for $300.

The OC of a firearm places the wearer squarely in the "hard target" category making them a less desirable target.

Many people say that they prefer CC because they want the "element of surprise", this just doesn't make sense to me.  Surprise is a great tactic for an offensive maneuver like an ambush but it is a lousy tactic for defending against one.  The very fact that you need to draw your weapon means that you are already smack-dab in the middle of a life and death situation....how does surprise help you at that point?  According to the NRA in the VAST majority of self-defense uses of a firearm the mere presence of the gun was enough to deter the attacker.  Logic tells me that the sooner the presence of the gun is known the sooner the attacker chooses to find another target.

This brings me to the OODA loop.  In any interaction (this is very simplified) we go through a series of steps these are Observe, Orient, Decide, and Act.  We first observe and take in all the information around us, we then orient to that information and run it through the filters of our experience, morals, ethics, desires, etc., we then decide what to do and then we do it.

When a criminal attacks you he is already four steps ahead of you.  He is in the Act phase of his OODA loop.  He has already observed you and found you to be a desirable target.  You on the other hand are on the first stage of your OODA loop as you observe the attack unfolding (hopefully).  CC of a firearm does absolutely nothing to affect the attackers OODA loop until you can rally your self to action....at least four steps behind your attacker.  OC of a firearm however provides the attacker with information during the initial Observe phase of his loop and that information is that you are most definitely a hard target.  It is my contention that CC of a firearm does NOTHING to prevent the attack from ever happening while the deterrent effect of OC convinces the majority of criminals to look elsewhere.

Now, onto the idea that if a criminal sees the openly carried firearm that they will choose you as a target and make their attack plans in order to steal your gun.  If I put a security system in my house with the window decals that say "protected by XYZ alarm systems" could a criminal interested in breaking into my house go on the internet and learn all about XYZ alarm systems and learn how to disarm them?  Sure.  Could that criminal get a job with XYZ alarm systems and then learn exactly what system I have so he could disarm it and rob me?  Sure he could.  But the chances are much higher that he will go down the street to find an easier target that doesn't have an alarm system.

Are there people who may target you for your gun?  Yes there are, but this is a numbers game and I feel the OC of a pistol will offer a deterrent to greater number of people than it will entice.

And due to the way Michigan law is written by OCing AND having a CPL I can legally carry in more places.  I can open carry in most of the PFZs where a concealed carrier must disarm.

Technical:  Others have mentioned they can draw faster from OC and I agree.  I also agree that I can carry a larger firearm


I’ve recently come to a realization about the selection process for a carry firearm.  When I talk to people who primarily conceal carry the majority of them are choosing their firearm based on how easy it is to conceal, not on how well they can shoot with it.  They are preparing for a terrible situation by choosing a firearm that places them at a distinct disadvantage.  They are looking for light, slim, guns that are typically short barreled and often small caliber.  I’m of the belief that one should carry the largest caliber firearm that they can shoot the best.  For me and most people I’ve been to the range with these firearms are longer and heavier than most people would be able to easily conceal.  Of my own available choices the two that I shoot the best are a 5” all steel 1911 and a 4” stainless steel .357 magnum revolver.  Neither of these firearms lends themselves to easy concealment but I can shoot them more accurately and faster than any other firearm I own, and to quote Clint Smith:

"I never met a man that had been in a gunfight and wished that he had a smaller gun. Ever."


Another important aspect of open carry is that I can easily draw one handed.  I don't have to fumble with a cover garment with my off hand.  This is important for me because being able to draw one handed frees up my other hand for fending off a physical attack.  If your chosen style of carry doesn’t allow you to access, draw and present the firearm in two seconds or less, one handed and from a variety of positions, you seriously need to reevaluate how you are carrying.

Social:   CC of a firearm also does nothing to show the antis and the neutrals that law abiding citizens with firearms are not to be feared.  They need to see us WITH our firearms, going about our business with our families and doing normal every day things, with guns on our sides.  Fear is bred from unfamiliarity and the only way to make people not fear guns is for them to become familiar with them and the only way for them to become familiar with them is to actually SEE them.

Political:  This one will be short.  A right not used is a right given away.  I don't say it's lost because if we freely choose to not use the rights guaranteed to us by the U.S. and State constitutions then we freely give those rights away.  They were not lost and nobody took them from us.  We rolled over and meekly handed them over.

Bronson
Those who expect to reap the benefits of freedom, must, like men, undergo the fatigue of supporting it. – Thomas Paine

Offline emt805

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Re: Why Open Carry?
« Reply #3 on: July 19, 2010, 03:11:33 PM »
 I saw this on another site and it fits well to my own thoughts just better said.

"I open carry for the following reasons:

1. I would rather deter a crime than defend against a crime. Odds are that if a criminal is sizing me up as a target, and they see the gun, they will simply go down the street one block, or wait a couple minutes for me to leave. Why would a criminal choose to attack a target that is visibly armed when there are hundreds of other targets readily available that don't appear to be armed? The criminal has as goals to obtain what they desire with the least amount of hassle/problems, to not get caught, and to not get shot. Attacking a visibly armed citizen is counterproductive to all three goals.

2. Open carry offers faster draw time then having to go through or around the concealing garment to get to the gun.

3. I like to present to the public the image that it is perfectly acceptable and normal for an American to engage in normal activities during normal day to day life and have the means available to them of self protection. The public is never going to get over their negative feelings towards guns if all they ever see are the negative images presented by the media and the Brady Bunch. The sentiments of the "pro-gun" crowd that guns are better concealed only fosters the idea that guns are bad and should be hidden away - in my humble opinion.

4. I took an oath to support and defend the Constitution of the United States against ALL enemies, foreign and DOMESTIC. By openly carrying my firearm I fulfill that oath in a small way every day by taking an action that supports the Second Amendment - the part of the Constitution that is under attack more than any other part. "

Offline wardog6t

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Re: Why Open Carry?
« Reply #4 on: July 19, 2010, 03:14:39 PM »
+1 and also Because its my right!
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Offline Bronson

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« Last Edit: February 21, 2017, 09:18:33 AM by JSteinmetz »
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Offline venator

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Re: Why Open Carry?
« Reply #6 on: July 20, 2010, 08:30:54 AM »
I might have missed it, but I was browsing the website for an ordered, succinct, and well thought-out answer to the question: Why Open Carry?

I don't need a reason, I do it everyday, but it seems like it would be a topic we would want to be easily accessible to the new, the curious, and the opposed.

This is on the MOC, Inc. home page

Open carry is more than open carry
Brian G. Jeffs, 1st President, MOC, Inc.

It’s true that open carry has many advantages: a faster draw, a larger caliber handgun and greater round capacity; sure it’s been shown to deter crime, and it is immensely more comfortable to carry in warm weather, but it is much more than that. Open carry brings gun ownership out of the closet. It shows your friends and neighbors, your state and your country that you are not afraid of taking on the responsibility of protecting yourself and the ones you love from evil. Open carry is a visible expression of our natural right to self preservation. Open carry makes a statement that we are not afraid to stand up to the “politically correct” ideology that has created a nanny state, where the government is there to help us if we just do as they say, and a pox on anyone that disagrees.

Open carry can lead us out of this stupor and deliver us once again to the days when a man could stand tall and be proud of his community, his state, and his country. When you open carry you are saying to the world, I’m my own man, I’m able and willing to defend myself, my family, and if need be my community, my state, and my country. It also states that I’m willing to stand up and speak truth to authority. It’s shameful that we as law abiding citizens must stand up to authority, the very authority that we have empowered, when questioned about our lawful right to openly carry a firearm. But stand up we must. The open carry of a firearm speaks volumes and it’s says much more than just open carry.
Family book on OPEN CARRY go to: http://www.myparentsopencarry.com/
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The above are my opinions only.  Please seek an attorney concerning all questions of law.

Offline redskin

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Re: Why Open Carry?
« Reply #7 on: July 21, 2010, 12:26:55 AM »
Thanks Venator. I did find that after I posted this thread. My concern is that it is hard to find, even if it is there. I think this question is the one people want answered, and if we can answer it we can help our own cause. Doing so effectively, in my mind, means making that more prominent - even making it a permanent link on one of the menus.
A man's country is not a certain area of land, of mountains, rivers and woods, but a principle; and patriotism is loyalty to that principle.

Offline venator

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Re: Why Open Carry?
« Reply #8 on: July 21, 2010, 10:24:52 AM »
Thanks Venator. I did find that after I posted this thread. My concern is that it is hard to find, even if it is there. I think this question is the one people want answered, and if we can answer it we can help our own cause. Doing so effectively, in my mind, means making that more prominent - even making it a permanent link on one of the menus.

Well it is on the Home page of MOC, Inc.  It has also been posted on other sites.  I hope the article gives you some information to build your own response to the question "Why open carry?"

All my best,
Brian Jeffs
Family book on OPEN CARRY go to: http://www.myparentsopencarry.com/
Looking forward to having more smites than posts.  Thanks all.
The above are my opinions only.  Please seek an attorney concerning all questions of law.

Offline kryptonian

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Re: Why OC
« Reply #9 on: July 26, 2010, 01:05:36 PM »
why OC?

here's my take on it - similar to most on here but will put it out anyway

why carry at all CC or OC? not to be a victim. this evens the playing field. laws that restrict weapons are only disarming law abiding citizens from defending themselves from those that are armed illegally and could care less about the law or you. when texas passed the CC law and permits were issued it wasn't long at all before criminals were piling up in the morgue. texas law basically says 'that's what you get'.

OC instead of CC - if i am CC in my daily duties and i am confronted with a situation where i or someone around me is chosen as a target for whatever crime by an assailant with a deadly weapon chances are my gun is coming out and somebody is going to get shot. i didn't plan it or want it but it came my way. lots of paperwork, maybe an arrest, legal and mental issues for many months to come. people in nice air conditioned brightly lit offices sitting in high back adjustable comfy seats who live in half million dollar houses will sit and look for months at cold written accounts of what you did in the dark or rain and a decision you had half a second to make. they will assume you asked for it somehow.
if i OC then it's different. whatever illegal issue someone brings towards me or someone around me they now are looking at what they know to be an armed citizen. i do not have the same rules of engagement the police have. as an armed citizen openly carrying my firearm i actually have less restraints for deadly force than a police officer. i do not have to retreat due to the castle doctrine placed into law like the police too. if the assailant approaches you knowing you are armed and still proceeds then it is clear their mental process is clearly compromised. the last thing going thru their criminal mind is a 9mm.
criminal intent - i would say most stranger crime victims are targeted by oppurtunity. the BG may or may not have intended to rob or attack someone rather they just happened on a situation they could take advantage of. for this type criminal the sight of an open carrier would for most instantly rule out any chance. me and everyone around me are skipped for any criminal target. they can go be stupid somewhere else and me and those with me go home.

drunk or drugged individuals lack the little common sense they do have and more likely to be a problem. you would be trying to put logical thinking where there is none. you of course would give warnings and orders to stop. often times they are more resistant to force just from sheer adrenaline. the worst in my opinion are the addicts not on drugs going thru withdraw. they will say or do anything to get what you have to buy drugs. they are driven by one desire and no amount of reasoning or warnings will deter them.

another issue is when you draw on an individual and give the warnings if time permits the assailant thinks that you don't have the guts to shoot them. they will slowly get nearer trying to calm you while trying to get close enough to grab your weapon from you. don't make it easy and hold it straight arm out. my advice is don't carry if you can't shoot when it becomes necessary. you become a victim anyway and provide them with a loaded weapon. i also suggest fire a shot into something safe (dirt, dumpster, their car, a tree, etc.). this shows it's loaded, you will shoot and that pow noise is going to raise a lot of attention your way. warning shots look better in court.

for the most part people generally don't react negatively to the sight of the weapon. there are a few that will but that's a small percentage. a reassuring demeanor and if approached a carefully worded explanation of the law works wonders. once the general public is aware and it is more common then apprehension will turn to comfort. every month that goes by law enforcement is gaining understanding in the law and it's application and acceptance. 911 dispatchers are asking more questions to weed out OC as opposed to legitimate weapon threats. every interested person you educate is like a ripple effect or like that shampoo commercial from the 70's with heather locklear - they'll tell 2 friends and they'll tell 2 friends..and so on and so on. (youtube it if you're too young to remember it).

as with anything there may be the isolated idiot that will make us all look bad and set us back years in acceptance. some purposely put themselves in front of the police to bait an encounter. some are attention whores who do this for the wrong reasons. some place themselves in harms way to test their image. the true reasons are simple. utilize the law to further the right of self protection and send a message to the lawless - NOT HERE!!

the best arming you can carry is knowledge. know your weapon, know when and how to use it, know your surroundings, know the law that allows this freedom. prepare your answers for police, dumb question people, interested people, concerned people and anybody else who challenges your right. wear it proud. you represent us all. thats it. thanks for reading.

« Last Edit: July 26, 2010, 05:35:36 PM by autosurgeon »
i don't fear the barking dog...i'm scared of the quiet dog

Offline Lonewolf0714

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Re: Why Open Carry?
« Reply #10 on: August 16, 2010, 04:35:52 PM »
It's my Constitutional Right.

Offline BTAvery

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Re: Why Open Carry?
« Reply #11 on: August 22, 2010, 02:01:57 PM »
Also if you not 21 you can't get a cpl so your only option is OC like me.

Offline autosurgeon

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Re: Why Open Carry?
« Reply #12 on: September 27, 2010, 12:30:18 PM »


    Why Open Carry?
    Written by malignity


    As the open carry community in Michigan grows, more people in the public have become ‘aware’ of gun owners. Some are not bothered by the law abiding citizens that open carry, whereas others are fearful. This essay will cover some of the post popular arguments against open carry, will explain some of the reasons the community does so, and will explain why some prefer to openly carry their firearm instead of concealing it where applicable to those with a Concealed Pistol License.

    Comfort
    Carrying a firearm in general can be a burden. Ask anyone who carries one daily. The two most carried firearms are large framed firearms, such as the 1911 style .45 caliber handgun and various Glock models such as the Glock model 17 or Glock model 22. Having a larger frame typically results in more weight, especially in metal framed firearms such as the 1911. Though the Glock is polymer framed, the magazine is double stacked with rounds side by side or staggered which causes the firearm to be wider and thus more difficult to conceal. Many of those that open carry do so because it is simply more comfortable for them. Concealing such a large framed gun can be almost impossible at times, especially in the summer months when shorts and a T-shirt are of normal dress. There is nothing more difficult than attempting to conceal a full sized firearm with a 5” barrel when you aren’t wearing clothing that will naturally do so.

    Draw Speed
    The open carry of a firearm in a vast majority of situations allows for a quicker draw of the firearm when needed verses concealed carry. If the use of deadly force is imminent and cannot be avoided for the defense of yourself, your family, or another, the ability to access said firearm must be quick. There is no bad guy on the planet that is going to wait for you to draw and your gun so you can send him on his way to the emergency room. Drawing openly from the hip ensures the following: First that you will save seconds, or even fractions of a second when drawing your firearm because you do not have to move your shirt, or open your vest, or suddenly reach in your pocket or bend down and grab your ankle. Your firearm can snag on a pants pocket, on your shirt, etc. All of these things waste time, and when seconds count and your life is on the line, no one will be waiting for you. Wasting precious seconds could mean the difference between life and death.


    Deterrent
    To say that open carry deters crime is simply a ‘no-brainer’. There has been national news stories in which open carry has clearly deterred crime. Not long ago in Georgia multiple men planned on robbing a Waffle House. As the others waited in the car, they sent a scout in to survey the place. As the scout walked in, the police noticed the remaining men in the car looking suspicious but continued to watch. The scout walked into the Waffle House, noticed two men open carrying their firearms and quickly ran out of the place to tell his friends that the deal was off. Upon doing so, the police that were watching said men decided that they had enough reasonable suspicion against the crooks and all of them went to jail. Needless to say, if it weren’t for open carry, even if the police were watching carefully, lives could have been lost. It is always better to completely deter crime from happening than to have to defend yourself and possibly injure or kill someone no matter how deserving it may be. This also will likely cause a very expensive legal battle if you must defend yourself, and simply avoiding the situation all together and yet refusing to become a victim in the process is clearly the best option.
    If still not convinced that open carry deters crime, ask yourself this question: Why do police and security guards open carry if not for a direct deterrent to crime? Very few people will commit crime in front of said Law Enforcement Officials. It isn’t necessarily their power of authority that is a deterrent however. Any civilian can do a citizen’s arrest when a felony is committed; one does not need to be a member of Law Enforcement to do so. Criminals know that if they commit that crime and put other people’s lives in jeopardy, it’s the almighty gun that’s going to give them a bad day, not the handcuffs.

    Political Statement and Exercising of Rights
    There are some open carry simply for the sake of exercising their right to do so. One may argue that simply because you can, doesn’t mean you should. This may be true in some aspect, but on the other side of the coin, a right unexercised is a right lost. The fact that someone has a gun on their hip does not make them a raging lunatic. To some, open carry is simply a political statement saying that they are proud to live in a nation that allows their citizens the right to keep and bear arms. At an open carry picnic in Marysville in which the Canadian border could be easily seen, some open carriers stated they were proud to be American, because not less than a mile away, our Canadian neighbors are not even allowed to own a pistol of any kind. Between 25-30% of Americans own a firearm in our nation. These people are your family, your friends and your neighbors. As firearm awareness increases, and with the news media constantly reporting more heinous crimes daily, more and more Americans are deciding that it is time to take a stand for the safety of themselves and others. In times of economic crisis, where cities cannot afford to keep police forces at full capacity, more Americans are finding out that the responsible citizen does not wait sometimes hours for police protection in a time of need, but instead refuse to be a victim and have decided to take matters into their own hands if the occasion arises.

    Common Arguments against Open Carry

    If you open carry, you’ll be shot first
    While this could in fact be true in some circumstances, consider this. If someone is hell-bent in committing their crime, they are going to do so regardless of the presence of a firearm. The situation can either go as follows: One, a scout or lone criminal can come to commit their crime, realize that someone has a firearm, and call off the whole gig completely, deterring them from the scene. Two, the criminal simply barges in and attacks blindly without any consideration whatsoever to their surroundings. At this point, it does not matter if the firearm is concealed or open, as the criminal has already made up their mind as to what they plan on doing, and is probably completely unaware of the firearm on someone’s hip. The last situation would be that someone scouted out and planned their attack ahead of time, and they do target you first. There is no way in knowing whether or not you would have been targeted first anyway; a bank robber intent on killing everyone in a bank who happens to be full of women with the exception of one man is obviously going to kill the greatest threat first, which perceived by most is going to be the male. This man would have been killed first because he is male, not because he is carrying a firearm. There is no evidence to support the fallacy that open carriers get shot first.

    I want the element of surprise
    The element of surprise is an offensive tactic. Being that the only lawful use of a firearm is for the defense of yourself or someone else, it makes no sense to respond to an offensive tactic with an offensive tactic. The act of drawing to defend yourself is a defensive tactic. If a criminal has a gun pulled on you and you feel you can successfully pull your gun on them and defend yourself without getting yourself killed in the process, then the criminal has already made up their mind on what they want to do, and at the point of drawing and shooting, there’s no amount of surprise that’s going to change his mind in the future. He’s made up his mind, you’ve made up yours, and the end result is going to be someone going to the emergency room. The element of surprise plays absolutely no role whatsoever in this defensive situation, as any hesitation in waiting for a criminals response to your gun could end your own life. Very rarely could surprise turn the tides in your favor unless the criminal has a significantly poor sense of situational awareness. The majority of concealed carried handguns are more slowly drawn than those that are openly carried. When you need your gun, no criminal is going to wait for you to pull it on them and fill them with lead.

    I don’t want to be hassled by police
    As the open carry community grows, so does the amount of police education provided. More and more people in the Law Enforcement community are becoming aware and even supportive of citizens rights to openly carry a firearm. Many police realize that because more crime is being deterred, it allows them to have more time to devote to where they can quickly and more effectively respond to crimes that would otherwise not be deterred by a civilian. Police are also beginning to realize that felons who cannot legally own a firearm or are carrying for unlawful intent are not going to attract attention to themselves by carrying their firearm in the open.

    I don’t want to scare people
    With 25-30% of Americans owning guns, that gives the United States a nearly one in three ratio of those that own guns. Take the number of those Americans that don’t own firearms but are supportive of the second amendment, and you could have nearly half the population. Those that fear firearms are those that are typically uneducated about them. Only in Hollywood will you see guns simply go off on their own and Wild West shootings. There is absolutely no reason anyone should fear a law abiding citizen who is going out and living their daily lives shopping at a grocery store or purchasing a coffee at the local coffee shop with a gun on their hip. The vast majority of gun owners are in fact law abiding citizens who go through their daily lives attempting to stay out of trouble and live ‘good’ lives. Remember, everyone in the state of Michigan must pass a criminal background check before purchasing a handgun. Therefore one cannot have a violent criminal record to legally own or purchase a pistol of any sort.Those that commit violent crime are typically repeat offenders who have a previous record and cannot even possess a firearm lawfully anyway. There are 42 states in the United States that allow some form of lawful open carry by citizens. Multiply that number by the amount of people across the entire nation who open carry. Either we have an extremely fearful nation as a whole across those 42 states, or open carry simply does not bother people as much as you might think.

    I’m still not convinced
    Though this article may not convince you that open carry is the correct way to carry, or may not convince you to even support open carry, know that open carry isn’t going away anytime soon. The goal of this argument is not to convince the anti-gun person that it is acceptable to open carry, but rather to convince those that who may otherwise conceal, to carry their gun openly from time to time and support and exercise your rights. One in twenty five people in the state of Michigan have a valid Concealed Pistol License, and though you do not need a CPL to open carry, if this article persuades even a handful of CPL holders to open carry when they would otherwise be carrying anyway, then the job of this article is complete. The sooner awareness is spread, and the more visible guns there are deterring crime, the safer our state will become. Remember, a right unexercised is a right lost, and even if the act of open carry is not important to you, but the right to open carry is, consider giving it a try, if only once. You may find that it’s not nearly as bad as you think it is, that people really aren’t afraid of you like you thought they would be, and who knows, you may even deter a crime in the process.

Anything I post may be my opinion and not the law... you are responsible to do your own verification.

Blackstone (1753-1765) maintains that "the law holds that it is better that ten guilty persons escape than that one innocent suffer."

Offline Yooper

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Re: Why Open Carry?
« Reply #13 on: October 02, 2010, 10:36:20 AM »
I might have missed it, but I was browsing the website for an ordered, succinct, and well thought-out answer to the question: Why Open Carry?

I don't need a reason, I do it everyday, but it seems like it would be a topic we would want to be easily accessible to the new, the curious, and the opposed.

'cuz da mudder bears, an da mudder deer, and da mudder mooses day don't like it when der is people dat get buhtween dem and der babies.  Dey get kinda ticked off an try ta run ya over.  If ya gots one of dem tings runnin' at ya trew da bush, ya don't want a jacket or nuttin' gettin in da way of gettin' to yer gun eh.  Den, when ya get outta da bush, an ya gotta hit da store ta git some clean undies, ya just leave da gun on da belt, and no one says nuttin to ya 'bout it.  Dats life in da U.P.
(Sorry, couldn't resist....that's about as ordered, succinct, and well thought out as we Yoopers get :D )
American by choice.....Yooper by da grace of God!

Offline TexasSupporter

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Re: Why Open Carry?
« Reply #14 on: March 21, 2013, 10:05:15 PM »
Wow, I really like that explanation (Edited Note: I'm talking about that first long one, where Bronson was quoting from another source, because there are many good ones that followed his), and it made me want to open carry more than what I thought I would have.  Remember, though, I'm in Texas and am still fighting the good fight to actually be able to open carry here.   I really thought I would have open carried maybe 1% of the time, and the main reason is to protect the right.  I still think that is the #1 reason why open carry should be allowed and exercised:  to protect our right, a right which is the most fundamental and basic of rights, and which protects all others. 

However, even though I understood other important advantages of open carry (ease of draw, carry of larger or favorite firearm, etc), I still thought that I would only openly carry a very small percentage of the time I carry (note that I carry 100% of the time, though always concealed).  I even made a video about "Why Openly Carry" which you can see as the featured video on my site which is linked below.  Now, however, I have a new and even better understanding, and think I will OC much more often for the reasons that were given in this "essay". 

I do not completely agree with everything in the essay, including the assumption that your chances of becoming a victim remain the same even though you are conceal carrying.  This is because much of what determines who will be the victim, is the way the person carries themselves.  I can guarantee that I carry myself (with firearm concealed with me) in a much stronger manner.  I do not appear to be an easy victim, WHICH I DID the day I was beat up here in Dallas 4 years ago. 

At the moment the attack was unfolding that day, I had never been assaulted (except by my brothers haha).  I had 40 years of experience telling me that what I was seeing (5 minutes of being stalked while walking in a nice neighborhood on a sunny 9am morning walk in Dallas) was not going to turn out bad.  I KNEW I was in trouble, and these 2 thugs were up to no good.  What I didn't have yet was the "gift of fear", which I now have and I now look back at the beating as my "wake up call".  That is why I finally got my CHL and my gun.  I had had a Beretta 9000 before, but had sold it after owning it for a year.  Now, I will never be without my guns, which includes my favorite:  a Beretta 92FS. 

My experience, where I was beat down over and over into the concrete, (and which could easily have been to death had not I called out "Jesus,  help me!" as I came to once again, and then was never hit again as I watched the thugs run away around the corner), taught me that I did not like being a victim, and that evil really exists and could come at any moment.  And that I would be prepared the next time it came.  I would be ready, to protect myself and my loved ones.  And I always am.  God saved me that day, when I called out to him in my most desperate moment.   But he also gave me a mind, and I have used that to understand how to protect myself and my family, as he allows.  How understandable, then, are the Liberals, who hate both God and guns, and cannot find this same connection.

Now, one thing to understand.  In the stalking before my beat down, I had a good 5 minutes to prepare.  But I had nothing to prepare with. Without firearms, and unfortunately without a phone that day (very unusual for me), I was left to hope for the best, and to believe in the past, which as I stated told me that 40 years of being ok would prevail.  But if I had my concealed firearm that day, that crime would never have occured.  Because now, with the "gift of fear" that I've been given, and with my preparations which include always carring my firearm, I would easily have been able to stop the sequence of events which happened, and I would never have been a victim that day.   

So in this way, the writer of the essay is wrong.  He too uses some examples which are not always the way things go.  But overall, his essay is outstanding, and I agree with him in the fundamental argument for OC that he presented.  But while I agree with him that OC has huge advantages, and I will indeed OC much more often that what I had thought (once we get Open Carry here in Texas), nevertheless concealed carry is HUGE in preventing crime, and in the prevention of crime on YOU.
« Last Edit: March 22, 2013, 10:19:35 AM by TexasSupporter »

Offline TheQ

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Re: Why Open Carry?
« Reply #15 on: March 22, 2013, 12:39:31 AM »
My friends,

I've given this exact same speech at a number of rallies.  I now would like to put it in writing.

Stay with me for a moment, and I hope the following question won't turn you off.  Would you be willing to refute the truthfulness of this statement:

Regardless of how you feel about the matter, in the past 20-30 years the GLBT (Gay/Lesbian/Bisexual/Transexual) community has gained acceptance for themselves and who they are?

I don't think you have to be pro-sexual preference choice to agree with that statement -- it's simply a fact.  Now the question becomes, "how have they accomplished this?"  I'm going to tell you how: THEY'VE COME OUT OF THE CLOSET!  Their families, friends, and neighbors have all seen nice and otherwise "normal" people come out of the closet and shamelessly tell the world they are homosexual.

That's what you do for gun ownership the day you start to open carry and everyday thereafter that you continue to open carry.  You walk around your neighborhood in the evening for exercise (physical) and you're open carrying -- you're showing your neighbors that you're a gun owner.  You go to you local grocery store while openly carrying, you're showing strangers in your town that it's not just cops and criminals that carry gun -- but good, respectable, law abiding people carry guns too.

When the topic of gun control comes up, these people (some of whom may have been on the fence) remember you and you become the face of gun owners.  They remember the nice conversation they had with you.  They ask themselves: why should we limit his rights?

So I invite you: come out of the closet, but be polite in everything you do.  Become the change that you seek.  Be the face of gun ownership to your family, friends, and your community.  Let people know that you are proud to be someone who takes defense of yourself and your loved ones seriously.  Be a proud gun owner/carrier.

Carry on and carry proudly...

/s/

Phillip Hofmeister
President
Michigan Open Carry, Inc.

* Nothing in this article is intended to besmirch nor endorse the GLBT community or those who are gay, lesbian, or bisexual.
« Last Edit: March 22, 2013, 12:46:43 AM by TheQ »
I Am Not A Lawyer (nor a gunsmith).

Offline TexasSupporter

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Re: Why Open Carry?
« Reply #16 on: March 22, 2013, 09:32:41 AM »
Well said, and a great angle on it all Q.  I would say that really sums up the whole argument for "Why Open Carry?"

At the heart of the issue is exactly that - that it is our right, and to protect the right it must be visable so that others can see and experience the right in their normal day to day life.  Otherwise, it does damage to the right, and places an undue burden upon the people to keep the right alive in the national conscience.

I look forward to the day when I will hear your speech, Q, live and in person.  And just as a side note, though I live in Texas and am trying to unseat the infringement here, I talk with friends all over the country about OC, and am winning my brother from Michigan over to gun ownership and OC too.  Will try to get him on board with MOC as soon as possible!

Offline JaccFrost

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Re: Why Open Carry?
« Reply #17 on: March 22, 2013, 01:20:55 PM »
great answers, this is spot on. I have heard the argument of element of surprise with CC and OC makes you a target. I try to explain and help others understand but some are so set in their ways and small minded to see things in any other way. Don't get me wrong, if you don't like guns, don't want to OC or whatever, so be it, but don't try to impose your beliefs upon me. I think it really comes down to 'de-sensitizing' the public on responsible carry. Good people carry guns too, and they don't always wear a uniform. Many are your brothers, sisters, sons, daughters, fathers, mothers, friends and neighbors alike.

Another thing, I don't understand how people come to the conclusion that restricting law-abiding citizens to carry (whether OC or CC) makes them any safer, or even deters crime?

MOC provides an invaluable service and a wealth of information. Education and being informed is our key to win.

Thank you MOC and all of its Members!
As someone who carries, I fully accept responsibility and the consequences of my actions..