Author Topic: What is supposed to be involved in a cpl class?  (Read 5057 times)

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Offline 32_d3gr33s

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What is supposed to be involved in a cpl class?
« on: January 18, 2013, 12:52:02 PM »
I took my cpl class last weekend, and let me just say, it was nothing like I expected. I don't know if its normal or if I just took a bad class.  The class consisted of the instructor continuously trying to sell anything and everything he had in his barn (where the class was held). He told numerous stories about his life and what he has done. The training was almost completely about home defense. The Leo wasn't bad but didnt seem knowledgable about much with the law. The shooting range was 1 hour. We had paper plates hanging on a fence 7 yards away.  We were told to load 6 rounds and fire them as fast as possible at the plate and not to worry about accuracy at all. Then reloaded 6 rounds, took a different stance and fired again.  Did this 7 times. There was 1 lady who managed to hit 1 bullet out of 42 onto the plates.  Then we went back in, talked more about home defense and took the test, which they gave us the answers to, then we were done. Was a 10 hour class that I feel had almost nothing to do with a cpl. They sold a packet, with a disk with common questions about cpl (which I think should have been taught) and a few papers including the msp handout for $30.  When I asked about open carry in pfz with a cpl, such as a school, they told me I'd probably get shot...

I can go into more detail if anyone is interested, but I just thought I'd share to see if this was normal, or not even close to what it's supposed to be.  There was no info given at all about even having a cpl, such as what to do if pulled over, rules for having a cpl, places you can and can't go, etc...  Just doesn't seem right.
I could write something cliché and insightful, but that would be too cliché and insightful.

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Offline FASBOLD

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Re: What is supposed to be involved in a cpl class?
« Reply #1 on: January 18, 2013, 02:29:18 PM »
Wow.

I just had mine on Dec. 22 and we definitely talked about what to do when pulled over, etc.

The instructor is a LEO, so he did the whole class. He did not agree with open carry, and thought it was a bad idea, but admitted that it is legal.

We had an open book, open discussion test, so we all passed that.

Basically on getting pulled over, identify yourself as a CPL holder and that you are armed, and location of your guns. (When you get your CPL it is tied to your vehicle registration, so when they run your plates they know the owner has a CPL.) He advised turning on your dome light if stopped at night, and to keep your hands in plain sight, so don't go for your license and CPL if you keep them in a wallet in your pants pocket, until you are asked for it.

I am waiting on my CPL board to meet next month (Kalamazoo County). I explained to my sons that once I get my CPL, if they drive my car without me, to be cool, just in case; and turn on the dome light at night and keep their hands in view, since an LEO that runs the plates will know about my CPL.

He also suggested keeping the current registration and current proof of insurance easily accessible, so he's not waiting on you.

He said that quite often, if he pulls over a CPL holder who is polite and prepared with the information needed in a traffic stop, he will let you off with a warning. He said if you are a jerk, he will give you a ticket, since he can play that game too.

He did say that if you have to travel through Illinois, to stop and put your carry gun(s) into transport mode in the trunk before entering Illinois. If you get caught speeding, an IL LEO will put you in the back of his car while he searches yours, because he can. He therefore advised not to break traffic laws in Illinois. He said that he avoids Illinois as much as possible.

We also fired a lot more rounds and had to get rounds on target. My course was the NRA self defense in the home.

I would find out what organization he is certified through, and complain. It is no good to have people who can't use their weapon accurately, and who are uninformed about the basics of the law. Such things give the rest of us a bad name.

I paid a flat fee and got the NRA book on self defense in the home and other handouts. We went over gun safety, types of guns, watched helpful videos, etc.
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Offline 32_d3gr33s

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Re: What is supposed to be involved in a cpl class?
« Reply #2 on: January 18, 2013, 02:52:50 PM »
My instructor is a NRA certified instructor and has been for over 30 years...  It just seems like he was taking shortcuts just to make money and get the class done.  I paid 100 bucks and had breakfast and lunch included so I definitely got my money's worth, but I feel bad for the others in the class.  There was over 30 people nd probably half of them had never shot a gun before. 
I could write something cliché and insightful, but that would be too cliché and insightful.

I shoot first... its better to give than to receive

Offline TheQ

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Re: What is supposed to be involved in a cpl class?
« Reply #3 on: January 18, 2013, 04:09:54 PM »
I took my cpl class last weekend, and let me just say, it was nothing like I expected. I don't know if its normal or if I just took a bad class.  The class consisted of the instructor continuously trying to sell anything and everything he had in his barn (where the class was held). He told numerous stories about his life and what he has done. The training was almost completely about home defense. The Leo wasn't bad but didnt seem knowledgable about much with the law. The shooting range was 1 hour. We had paper plates hanging on a fence 7 yards away.  We were told to load 6 rounds and fire them as fast as possible at the plate and not to worry about accuracy at all. Then reloaded 6 rounds, took a different stance and fired again.  Did this 7 times. There was 1 lady who managed to hit 1 bullet out of 42 onto the plates.  Then we went back in, talked more about home defense and took the test, which they gave us the answers to, then we were done. Was a 10 hour class that I feel had almost nothing to do with a cpl. They sold a packet, with a disk with common questions about cpl (which I think should have been taught) and a few papers including the msp handout for $30.

Sounds about what my experience was like.  Don't expect to learn much.  It's just for the sake of getting the piece of paper that gets you your CPL.  You'd think you could expect more, but sadly many instructors simply aren't worth while.  Don't bother asking about OC in CPL class.  We're here to help you get OC right.

If you paid only $30, you REALLY shouldn't expect much.

Would you mind telling us the name of the instructor and any business he is associated with?
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Offline TheQ

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Re: What is supposed to be involved in a cpl class?
« Reply #4 on: January 18, 2013, 04:17:31 PM »

He did say that if you have to travel through Illinois, to stop and put your carry gun(s) into transport mode in the trunk before entering Illinois. If you get caught speeding, an IL LEO will put you in the back of his car while he searches yours, because he can. He therefore advised not to break traffic laws in Illinois. He said that he avoids Illinois as much as possible.


I bolded the parts I agree with.  I disagree with the rest.

Here's my NY/IL procedure:

1. Give the officer the required paperwork.
2. Don't answer any of the officers questions - "I'm sorry, officer.  I understand you're just trying to do your job but I'd really rather not answer any of your questions."  Then shut up and say nothing more.  This includes questions about where you are from, where you are going, and what you may or may not have in your vehicle.
3. Actively (but only verbally) refuse all requests for search - "I'm sorry, officer.  I understand you're just trying to do your job but I simply won't consent to any searches of my vehicle."  You NEVER have to consent to a search, even if he gets a warrant.  Never physically resists, but never consent.  Even if he gets a warrant, your lawyer can fight it if it's improperly obtains or obtained without just cause.  Once you consent to a search it automatically becomes legal.
4. Make absolutely no statements about the gun in your trunk -- or anything else for that matter.  If being a dick assertive gets you a speeding ticket, fine.  It's better than the alternative.

That's my advise about these situations/
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Offline gryphon

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Re: What is supposed to be involved in a cpl class?
« Reply #5 on: January 18, 2013, 04:51:10 PM »
If you paid only $30, you REALLY shouldn't expect much.
He paid $100.  The $30 was an extra packet the instructor was trying to sell.
Quote
Would you mind telling us the name of the instructor and any business he is associated with?
Yes, we need to "out" poor instructors.

Offline TheQ

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Re: What is supposed to be involved in a cpl class?
« Reply #6 on: January 18, 2013, 05:15:41 PM »
He paid $100.  The $30 was an extra packet the instructor was trying to sell.

Preposterous!
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Offline gryphon

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Re: What is supposed to be involved in a cpl class?
« Reply #7 on: January 18, 2013, 09:49:32 PM »
Preposterous!

Yeah, $30 for a basic FAQ and a copy of MSP Legal Update #86.

We give that stuff away every day.

Offline 32_d3gr33s

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Re: What is supposed to be involved in a cpl class?
« Reply #8 on: January 18, 2013, 11:54:15 PM »
Yeah this guy was selling stuff left and right.  Definitely made his money's worth that day.

On a side note, supposedly he passed two blind people a few months back...  Is that even possible?!?!
I could write something cliché and insightful, but that would be too cliché and insightful.

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Offline gryphon

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Re: What is supposed to be involved in a cpl class?
« Reply #9 on: January 19, 2013, 12:08:10 AM »
Since there is no scoring on the shooting part of the class, and there is no prohibition in law, I guess so.

Offline TheQ

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Re: What is supposed to be involved in a cpl class?
« Reply #10 on: January 19, 2013, 10:59:26 PM »
Yeah this guy was selling stuff left and right.  Definitely made his money's worth that day.

On a side note, supposedly he passed two blind people a few months back...  Is that even possible?!?!

Where did you take the class?  Who taught it?
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Offline venator

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Re: What is supposed to be involved in a cpl class?
« Reply #11 on: January 19, 2013, 11:57:50 PM »
Yeah this guy was selling stuff left and right.  Definitely made his money's worth that day.

On a side note, supposedly he passed two blind people a few months back...  Is that even possible?!?!
Was the guy's name Chuck and a retired LEO?  Did he tell about when he had to fight for his life in a basement?
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Offline 32_d3gr33s

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Re: What is supposed to be involved in a cpl class?
« Reply #12 on: January 20, 2013, 12:10:51 AM »
His name was Dave Hansen and the class was through Greenville hardware, but he taught it at his house. 
I could write something cliché and insightful, but that would be too cliché and insightful.

I shoot first... its better to give than to receive

Offline TheQ

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Re: What is supposed to be involved in a cpl class?
« Reply #13 on: January 20, 2013, 12:27:51 AM »
Was the guy's name Chuck and a retired LEO?  Did he tell about when he had to fight for his life in a basement?

That was a good story, wasn't it?
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Offline venator

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Re: What is supposed to be involved in a cpl class?
« Reply #14 on: January 20, 2013, 09:53:59 AM »
That was a good story, wasn't it?
Yep, but why I thought it might be him was the same story about Ill cops searching your car, etc....  BS.
Family book on OPEN CARRY go to: http://www.myparentsopencarry.com/
Looking forward to having more smites than posts.  Thanks all.
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Offline FASBOLD

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Re: What is supposed to be involved in a cpl class?
« Reply #15 on: January 20, 2013, 11:03:37 AM »
That was my response to the OP about IL cops searching car.

He is a current LEO.

The way he stated about IL cops searching your car it came across as that is what would happen if you admitted to having guns.

Most LEOs advocate talking to LEOs since you "have nothing to hide". This is how most of us were raised, it can be challenging to overcome this.

Lawyers say never volunteer information to LEOs, or answer their questions.

As a good law abiding citizen, keep your headlights and blinkers in working order and obeying all traffic laws and updating your license plate renewal sticker in a timely manner and you should avoid being pulled over 99.9% of the time. Make a plan for what you do and say or don't say before you get pulled over.

Looking at some of the PDFs on gun laws in other states, at http://www.handgunlaw.us/, most of the states I routinely travel through by car don't require telling a LEO that I have a gun, unlike Michigan. Unfortunately, IL is between MI and MO, so when I go back home to visit, I have to go through IL. I do like that MO lets any law abiding citizen carry a loaded gun in their car, no CPL required. It seems that several states do this. The gun map also points this out.

On the must disclose question the IL PDF has "N/A" since you can't carry a loaded gun that is accessible anywhere other than your home or land. Plus individual cities can have their own laws, such as Chicago. The court case requiring procedures to get a carry permit in IL has not yet yielded results. Read the PDF on IL - scary.
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Offline onnie0047@gmail.com

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Re: What is supposed to be involved in a cpl class?
« Reply #16 on: January 21, 2013, 04:04:31 AM »
Anyone who carries a handgun for protection must understand its a never ending learning process.  Those who stagnate are destine to fail.    From the first time you consider a handgun for defense, the learning process begins and should never stop. 
Knowledge is power..........

Take what comes with the CPL CLASS and move forward.  Lets face it, most of us took the CPL class because its a state requirement to conceal not because we wanted to, although those who do teach it should be better informed themselves, but see RED above.

Recently I was interviewed by an NRA instructor who was planing on having a instructors Class here in Monroe.  Everything was going great until I told him I Open Carried.  From that point on he did everything in his power to discourage from taking his class....not a problem, I got the hint. 



 
I am not a Cop, nor a Lawyer, not even a Medical Doctor, but I did once play a Klingon at Universal Studios!

Offline FASBOLD

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Re: What is supposed to be involved in a cpl class?
« Reply #17 on: January 21, 2013, 01:32:18 PM »
Good point. Laws can change very fast, and each state has its quirks that are not static.

A good rule of thumb might be don't carry in a state you don't know the basics of the law on carry, whether you OC or CC.

Lots of good resources here and elsewhere online for that info.
"The people of these United States are the rightful masters of both Congresses and courts, not to overthrow the Constitution, but to overthrow the men who pervert the Constitution."
~ Abraham Lincoln
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~ Unknown