CPL requirements

[spdrmnfn]

Can someone answer the question of requirements if you have a CPL and you are pulled over by the police.  My understanding is that you have to tell the officer that you do have a CPL, but do you have to state whether you have a gun in the car or not?  My concern would be if coming home after drinking, not being drunk, and getting pulled over and I state to the officer that I have a CPL but I am not carrying any guns at this time.  Does this give him right to be suspicious and give him the right to search the car or inquire for anything more than what they are able to ask for if I would not have the CPL?   I currently do not have a CPL and just trying to gather as much information and answer questions that I can before deciding if getting one is the right thing for me.

Thanks

[TheQ]

Hi.

MCL 28.425f says you only have to disclose if you meet both of the following:

1. You have a CPL
2. You are currently carrying under the authority of your CPL.

You have no legal duty to disclose anything at any other time. Should you? That's a topic for debate that is beyond the scope of your original question -- it's a personal decision.

As for me, it'd probably depend on the situation.

HTH.

[bigt8261]

-If you have a CPL AND you are "carrying" (have a firearm in the passenger compartment) then you shall immediately disclose to the officer that you have a CPL and you are carrying.

-If you do not have a CPL or you are not "carrying" then no such duty exists.

-If you do not have a CPL but you are "carry" (in your car) then you are breaking the law.

Now, even if you do not have the duty to disclose, many including my self, will recommend that it is still best policy to disclose to the officer that you have a CPL, but are not "carrying".

I hope that straightens things out. Feel free to post any follow questions that you may have.

[autosurgeon]

I will only disclosed when I am carrying. The law is clear.

Sent from my LG-E970 using Tapatalk 2

[xerxescct]

I thought if the officer runs your plate, assuming you are the registered owner of the vehicle, they are able to tell from that you have a CPL. Maybe I am wrong about that.

When I get my CPL I will not be carrying to and from work as my employer does not allow employees to have weapons on the property. So if I get pulled over in this situation I will still provide my papers for good measure.

[autosurgeon]

I thought if the officer runs your plate, assuming you are the registered owner of the vehicle, they are able to tell from that you have a CPL. Maybe I am wrong about that.

When I get my CPL I will not be carrying to and from work as my employer does not allow employees to have weapons on the property. So if I get pulled over in this situation I will still provide my papers for good measure.

Why would empower them to expect you to show papers when it is not required? That just makes it harder for other folks.

Sent from my LG-E970 using Tapatalk 2

[TheQ]

I thought if the officer runs your plate, assuming you are the registered owner of the vehicle, they are able to tell from that you have a CPL. Maybe I am wrong about that.

When I get my CPL I will not be carrying to and from work as my employer does not allow employees to have weapons on the property. So if I get pulled over in this situation I will still provide my papers for good measure.

When the officer pulls you over, he runs the plate. That doesn't tell him you that you have a CPL.

Many agencies as a matter of SOP run the registered owner through LEIN before the officer approaches, that's when your CPL pops up.

[32_d3gr33s]

side question, if you are a passenger in a stopped vehicle, do you have to disclose? or only the the driver of the vehicle?

[Ezerharden]

You are required to disclose as a passenger as well.

[WilDChilD]

You are required to disclose as a passenger as well.

Cite?
I wasnt the one stopped the driver was.

[xerxescct]

Why would empower them to expect you to show papers when it is not required? That just makes it harder for other folks.

Sent from my LG-E970 using Tapatalk 2

I'm sorry but that's how I feel. I am not empowering anyone. A little courtesy goes a long way especially when you may be ticketed for speeding or whatnot. That's my opinion, you have yours. I am not forcing anyone here or anywhere to show papers. I am not marching down to the capital as a pro paper shower. I dont feel that simply showing a paper to an officer, required or not, give them the ability to force it on others. The officer takes your drivers licence, proof, and registration with him, whats one more paper?

Again, my opinion, my feelings, and my way of doing things.

[bigt8261]

Let's keep in mind, that based on the OP, the scope of our conversation is constrained to when one is in a car and has been pulled over.

To me, this means RAS already exists for something. Personally, I am going to go out of my way to be courteous in this situation. That doesn't mean I'm going to give up any rights, that just means I'm going to be as polite and courteous as possible. Obviously this is just my opinion and as long as you are not "carrying", you are free to do as you wish.

[TheQ]

Let's keep in mind, that based on the OP, the scope of our conversation is constrained to when one is in a car and has been pulled over.

To me, this means RAS already exists for something. Personally, I am going to go out of my way to be courteous in this situation. That doesn't mean I'm going to give up any rights, that just means I'm going to be as polite and courteous as possible. Obviously this is just my opinion and as long as you are not "carrying", you are free to do as you wish.

I think post #2 says it best.

[bigt8261]

I think post #2 says it best.

I agree.

BTW, it would be post #3 if you hadn't ninjaed me by 8 seconds.

[autosurgeon]

When you go beyond what is required by the law you tend to give police the impression it is ok to expect everyone to do so. IMOP

You can be polite and respectful without telling the police everything you know. For example do you tell the police where you are going to or coming from if they ask?

I think the bigger issue here is the OP needs to watch the video on why NOT to talk to the police. Something you think is innocent and polite could backfire on you. Going beyond what is required by the law in one area tends to lead to doing so in other areas and that can lead to problems. Again IMOP

[WilDChilD]

You are required to disclose as a passenger as well.

Does anybody have a cite for this or is it BS?

[TheQ]

When you go beyond what is required by the law you tend to give police the impression it is ok to expect everyone to do so. IMOP

You can be polite and respectful without telling the police everything you know. For example do you tell the police where you are going to or coming from if they ask?

I think the bigger issue here is the OP needs to watch the video on why NOT to talk to the police. Something you think is innocent and polite could backfire on you. Going beyond what is required by the law in one area tends to lead to doing so in other areas and that can lead to problems. Again IMOP

For reference:

[bigt8261]

Does anybody have a cite for this or is it BS?

While I don't have statute or case law to point to, I do know that a MCRGO weekly update written by Steve Dulan (lawyer), said yes you qualify as having been stopped too. It may not be concrete, but I'm going with that until I see something else.

(Edit) Lookie what I found http://campaign.r20.constantcontact.com/render?llr=i8xaoxbab&v=001qwhULkbmHDuLgr_3K_AEac-JTI24AwQN83DlZuUdhsSm-gRUB4t6Rk-Oo-N91GzFWvQBcUwEyULLDeci5n3jnFGQwcpwHNZSwqtrlC3ctkY%3D

[autosurgeon]

I believe it is a court ruling that everyone in a vehicle is stopped. I don't have the case number at my fingertips.....

Sent from my LG-E970 using Tapatalk 2

[32_d3gr33s]

While I don't have statute or case law to point to, I do know that a MCRGO weekly update written by Steve Dulan (lawyer), said yes you qualify as having been stopped too. It may not be concrete, but I'm going with that until I see something else.

(Edit) Lookie what I found http://campaign.r20.constantcontact.com/render?llr=i8xaoxbab&v=001qwhULkbmHDuLgr_3K_AEac-JTI24AwQN83DlZuUdhsSm-gRUB4t6Rk-Oo-N91GzFWvQBcUwEyULLDeci5n3jnFGQwcpwHNZSwqtrlC3ctkY%3D

Thanks for that!  Very helpful!

[WilDChilD]

While I don't have statute or case law to point to, I do know that a MCRGO weekly update written by Steve Dulan (lawyer), said yes you qualify as having been stopped too. It may not be concrete, but I'm going with that until I see something else.

(Edit) Lookie what I found http://campaign.r20.constantcontact.com/render?llr=i8xaoxbab&v=001qwhULkbmHDuLgr_3K_AEac-JTI24AwQN83DlZuUdhsSm-gRUB4t6Rk-Oo-N91GzFWvQBcUwEyULLDeci5n3jnFGQwcpwHNZSwqtrlC3ctkY%3D

Thank you. Been on the forums and carrying for four years and still learn new stuff all the time.

[autosurgeon]

Found the case that says all in a vehicle that is stopped are detained or seized. http://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Brendlin_v._California

Sent from my LG-E970 using Tapatalk 2

[spdrmnfn]

-If you have a CPL AND you are "carrying" (have a firearm in the passenger compartment) then you shall immediately disclose to the officer that you have a CPL and you are carrying.

-If you do not have a CPL or you are not "carrying" then no such duty exists.

-If you do not have a CPL but you are "carry" (in your car) then you are breaking the law.

Now, even if you do not have the duty to disclose, many including my self, will recommend that it is still best policy to disclose to the officer that you have a CPL, but are not "carrying".

I hope that straightens things out. Feel free to post any follow questions that you may have.

Wanted to thank you for the information.

[autosurgeon]

I just wanted to be clear as I can as it seems maybe I was not in my original question:  What the main concern is:  If someone with a CPL must disclose that they have a CPL if they are not carrying in the car at all?

No the law says if you have a cpl and a gun you must disclose the concealed firearm not the cpl.

Sent from my LG-E970 using Tapatalk 2

[TheQ]

No the law says if you have a cpl and a gun you must disclose the concealed firearm not the cpl.

Sent from my LG-E970 using Tapatalk 2

He's right. The reference is MCL 28.425(f)(3).

[Justice]

Oops, wait, the admin covered it already! lol

GOOD!

I'll cover it again.

Anyways, always lick their boots and tell them how they rock and you  your self are low life scum!

Don't you know? This is a police state...

I understand all cops are not bad...

The video speaks for itself...

[Justice]

P.S. I mean no offense to the OP, Much of what I write in artcles, posts and some comments is sarcastic humor. Not sure if what I write here in the forums and responses is coming off properly.

[gryphon]

Couple of things.  If you want to post sarcasm, and you're not sure if it will come across as such, you can indicate it by using fake [sarcasm] [/sarcasm] tags, or putting the text in purple.

Another thought, though, is that you are likely preaching to the choir on many things, so maybe so much commentary isn't required.  Although in my case that advice is like the pot calling the kettle black as I have been known to write too much myself on occasion.

[Justice]

Couple of things.  If you want to post sarcasm, and you're not sure if it will come across as such, you can indicate it by using fake [sarcasm] [/sarcasm] tags, or putting the text in purple.

Another thought, though, is that you are likely preaching to the choir on many things, so maybe so much commentary isn't required.  Although in my case that advice is like the pot calling the kettle black as I have been known to write too much myself on occasion.

Point well taken, thankyou.

[TheQ]

Purple is official sarcasm color.

[32_d3gr33s]

Purple is official sarcasm color.

yeah... right

[LD]

Let's keep in mind, that based on the OP, the scope of our conversation is constrained to when one is in a car and has been pulled over.

To me, this means RAS already exists for something. Personally, I am going to go out of my way to be courteous in this situation. That doesn't mean I'm going to give up any rights, that just means I'm going to be as polite and courteous as possible. Obviously this is just my opinion and as long as you are not "carrying", you are free to do as you wish.

I guess my problem is I don't understand how informing an officer you have a CPL and are NOT carrying is a sign of respect or a courtesy.
Most states do't require informing and they have no problem with officers ticketing people more then the ones here.
I have gotten let off more times before I got my CPL then I have sense I got it. I don't see any advantage to cluttering up the stop with useless information.
I also notice that those that advocate informing when not carrying don't believe it is a good idea in states like NY, or IL. Why is that? Isn't it still a sign of respect & a courtesy?

[bigt8261]

I guess my problem is I don't understand how informing an officer you have a CPL and are NOT carrying is a sign of respect or a courtesy.
Most states do't require informing and they have no problem with officers ticketing people more then the ones here.
I have gotten let off more times before I got my CPL then I have sense I got it. I don't see any advantage to cluttering up the stop with useless information.
I also notice that those that advocate informing when not carrying don't believe it is a good idea in states like NY, or IL. Why is that? Isn't it still a sign of respect & a courtesy?

It would depend on your area. In my area I have heard far more positives than negatives. Also, many officers that I know personally, are more likely to be easier on a CPL holder. Know your area, and make the decision that best suits you.

[LD]

It would depend on your area. In my area I have heard far more positives than negatives. Also, many officers that I know personally, are more likely to be easier on a CPL holder. Know your area, and make the decision that best suits you.

Well.... If they are going to be easier on CPL holders, you're in luck. You don't have to TELL then anything, they got notified you have a CPL when they run your license.  Are you saying the cops you know are going to be tougher on you if you follow the law?
Doesn't sound very professional to me.

[Jeff]

they got notified you have a CPL when they run your license. 

Yeah but we're supposed to tell them if we have a concealed pistol when stopped.

[linux203]

they got notified you have a CPL when they run your license. 

They know if information was entered properly into LEIN and LEIN is available.  Neither is guaranteed.

[TheQ]

They know if information was entered properly into LEIN and LEIN is available.  Neither is guaranteed.

I work for DTMB, the agency that maintains LEIN. I can tell you LEIN is one of the life/death "red card" systems. Its availability is almost certainly guaranteed.

[linux203]

I work for DTMB, the agency that maintains LEIN. I can tell you LEIN is one of the life/death "red card" systems. Its availability is almost certainly guaranteed.

I wasn't necessarily referring to the back end.  The reliability of the MDT/MDC and radio connection are not guaranteed.

[LD]

Yeah but we're supposed to tell them if we have a concealed pistol when stopped.

And thew law is VERY clear about that.

NOTHING in the law requires you to or suggests that you say anything if you are NOT carrying.

The fact that a few people have gotten a break when they did is insignificant compared to the numbers of non CPL holders that get that same break EVERY DAY.

And again I ask why the people that advocate informing when NOT carrying do NOT advocate it in the few states that seen unfriendly to the public being allowed to carry firearms.
It would be the same respect & consideration as it is here. (And it would have the added benifit of making the officer FEEL safer.)

[TheQ]

Hi officer. I'm wearing blue underwear and I am a member of the Mickey Mouse club!

[Jeff]

Hi officer. I'm wearing blue underwear and I am a member of the Mickey Mouse club!

That's a 12 year felony, no visits.

[drtodd]

I work for DTMB, the agency that maintains LEIN. I can tell you LEIN is one of the life/death "red card" systems. Its availability is almost certainly guaranteed.

For being a "red card" system, whatever that means, it sure was down often when I was  reserve officer (about 4-6 years ago)

[Ezerharden]

Hi officer. I'm wearing blue underwear and I am a member of the Mickey Mouse club!

The really scary thing is I believe you! 

[Donut]

drinking, car, weapon, do not go together.
why risk it as it would not be worth the mess.
I'd brake it down into transport mod even if I have a CPL under those conditions.
I have a gun safe and I would even brake it down in the safe because being loaded it would be considered available and that would not be a good thing for your CPL license and not worth the risk.
I love my gun safe.