required by law to act?

[harleyh77]

I was talking with a guy who claims to read this forum. No MOC membership or user name, just lurks. He has a cpl and claims that whether oc or cc if we see a violent act, we must, as required by law do something to help. If we do not act we are breaking the law and can be arrestted.  Is anyone else aware of this? It really concerns me that people come out of a cpl class being told false info then read all sorts of goofy stuff online, then mix it all up and that is "law" they understand.

[TheQ]

We have no such law in Michigan or the US. Other countries (like France) have requirements that if you see a personal injury accident you're required to call for help for the person...but we don't even have these requirements.

I'd say the onus is on your friend to cite the law.

Personally. I don't carry a gun to protect anyone other than myself and those I love. There is too much liability (criminal and civil) in being the "good Samaritan".

What if it's a domestic dispute? By the time the cops show up they could be done fighting/have made up. Suddenly the story they start telling together isn't very favorable to you. You could end up in jail.

[gryphon]

Was he told this in a CPL class?

[harleyh77]

Not sure where he heard this. To be honest I did not stick around to long to talk.

[TheQ]

Not sure where he heard this. To be honest I did not stick around to long to talk.

I wouldn't give much credence to his report.

[Bronson]

Phases for Success

1) Provide your friend with this link: http://www.legislature.mi.gov/(S(qlxuqtjnrjtgf255iu4nbof0))/mileg.aspx?page=home

2) Bet him something big that he can't find the law he's talking about.

3) ?

4) Profit.

Bronson

[TheQ]

South Park did it in 3 phases.....

Phases for Success

1) Provide your friend with this link: http://www.legislature.mi.gov/(S(qlxuqtjnrjtgf255iu4nbof0))/mileg.aspx?page=home

2) Bet him something big that he can't find the law he's talking about.

3) ?

4) Profit.

Bronson

[Jeff]

Yikes.

I don't think even the Police here in Michigan are even obligated to help someone lol

One positive thing I will take from my CPL class is that usually the best thing you can do is be the best witness that you can be.  Might sound crappy but getting something wrong, or even a civil suit against you can ruin you for life.

[harleyh77]

I will have to pass that web link along to him. I recall reading somewhere that leo's have no duty to protect. If that is true, all the more reason to be able to defend ourselves. And i completely agree that its best to observe and report.

[TheQ]

I will have to pass that web link along to him. I recall reading somewhere that leo's have no duty to protect. If that is true, all the more reason to be able to defend ourselves. And i completely agree that its best to observe and report.

See Warren v DC.  That being said, I think they will do their best to help...but their best is never good enough when you only have 2-4 seconds.

[gryphon]

I recall reading somewhere that leo's have no duty to protect.

“There is no constitutional right to be protected by the state against being murdered.” Bowers v. DeVito

Neither cities nor police departments are responsible for failing to enforce restraining orders or protect citizens. Castle Rock v. Gonzales

Police departments enjoy absolute immunity for failure to provide sufficient police protection. Hartzler v. City of San Jose

The state has no affirmative duty to protect an individual, even if they know that person is in danger. DeShaney v. Winnebago County Department of Social Services

Law-enforcement has no duty to protect individuals. South v. Maryland

Just a few more examples.  There are others.

[harleyh77]

Wow, how do you guys find this info? Looking forward to getting out of work so i can read about some of these cases. Thanks

[Bronson]

Wow, how do you guys find this info?

Go to Google and type in "no duty to protect."

Bronson

[gryphon]

Wow, how do you guys find this info? Looking forward to getting out of work so i can read about some of these cases. Thanks

Those were some of the cases I referenced in an article in the Jan 2013 MOC Newsletter.  Have you read it?  Are you signed up to receive the newsletters?

[Marty]

As a retired street medic,  I find these articles to be somewhat of an eye opener.  I was always under the assumption that certain professional occupations where under the duty to act.  You know like  “Welcome to the party pal”.  Take even a school bus driver who proudly wears a pin “I know “CPR”.  I always told bus drivers if you ware that pin you have a duty to act or face a lawsuit.  So a police officer in uniform, who takes an oath to serve and protect, has no duty to act?  Interesting….

[TheQ]

Warren found there is "no duty by the department to ensure protection of an individual."

I'm leery to read more into case law than what is there.

[harleyh77]

Those were some of the cases I referenced in an article in the Jan 2013 MOC Newsletter.  Have you read it?  Are you signed up to receive the newsletters?

No i have not read that newsletter. I became a member April 2013.