Author Topic: Ionia Free Fair  (Read 9719 times)

0 Members and 1 Guest are viewing this topic.

Offline faldain

  • Posts: 10
Ionia Free Fair
« on: July 25, 2013, 07:38:43 AM »
So my buddy informed me that he called the Ionia Free Fair about carrying on the fairgrounds, and was informed "No sir, guns are illegal there". LOL- so of course, I had been looking forward to Open Carrying there for about a week. Last night I open carried my pistol, on the Midway, into the Beer Tent (had a Root Beer, my father had a beer), and walked by no less than 6 police officers. Nothing happened whatsoever. Kind of a let down....but a good one.

Offline drtodd

  • MOC Member
  • *
  • Posts: 145
  • MOC Charter Member
Re: Ionia Free Fair
« Reply #1 on: July 27, 2013, 04:32:35 PM »
So...being told that the Ionia Free Fair prohibits firearms, you decided to ignore their request to not possess a firearm while there? You are aware that they would not fall under preemption, correct? They are, after all, a private entity and since they apparently own the property on which the fair takes place, they had every right to ask that you not carry your firearm there. And since your buddy called and was told No Firearms, and then told you what he was told, claiming you were not given notice is probably not going to help you. Thank goodness that you weren't arrested for trespass, but I wouldn't advertise this on a public forum.

 See:http://www.dleg.state.mi.us/bcs_corp/dt_corp.asp?id_nbr=811130&name_entity=IONIA%20FREE%20FAIR%20ASSOCIATION

I'm not trying to be harsh, but asking about things such as this here beforehand and reading the responses will help you avoid possibly being arrested.
« Last Edit: July 27, 2013, 04:38:36 PM by drtodd »
"The claim and exercise of a constitutional right cannot be converted into a crime." Miller v. U.S. 230 F 486 at 489

"Where rights as secured by the Constitution are involved, there can be no rule making or legislation which will abrogate them." Miranda v. Ariz., 384 U.S. 436 at 491 (1966).

Offline TheQ

  • Website Content Manager
  • MOC Lifetime Member
  • *
  • Posts: 4263
    • Michigan Open Carry, Inc.
  • First Name (Displayed): Phillip
Ionia Free Fair
« Reply #2 on: July 27, 2013, 04:57:20 PM »

So...being told that the Ionia Free Fair prohibits firearms, you decided to ignore their request to not possess a firearm while there? You are aware that they would not fall under preemption, correct? They are, after all, a private entity and since they apparently own the property on which the fair takes place, they had every right to ask that you not carry your firearm there. And since your buddy called and was told No Firearms, and then told you what he was told, claiming you were not given notice is probably not going to help you. Thank goodness that you weren't arrested for trespass, but I wouldn't advertise this on a public forum.

 See:http://www.dleg.state.mi.us/bcs_corp/dt_corp.asp?id_nbr=811130&name_entity=IONIA%20FREE%20FAIR%20ASSOCIATION

I'm not trying to be harsh, but asking about things such as this here beforehand and reading the responses will help you avoid possibly being arrested.

QFT


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk 2
I Am Not A Lawyer (nor a gunsmith).

Offline drtodd

  • MOC Member
  • *
  • Posts: 145
  • MOC Charter Member
Re: Ionia Free Fair
« Reply #3 on: July 27, 2013, 05:16:02 PM »
OK, I was unduly harsh, and I apologize. I see the OP did ask about the fair in the "Ask an Attorney" thread. Perhaps it should have been asked in the general section too...he didn't receive a response in the Atty section.

The Ionia County Free Fair Association is listed as the owner of the property upon which the fair is held, as shown on the Ionia County GIS website. Therefore, since the association is a nonprofit corporation, and holds title to the land on which the fair is held, preemption is not applicable. As an aside, it is a similar situation in most of Michigan. Local governments got out of the fair business a while back. Even the state of Michigan has done so. I am unsure about the state fair that was held in the UP... I think that too was taken over by a nonprofit corporation.
« Last Edit: July 27, 2013, 06:47:45 PM by drtodd »
"The claim and exercise of a constitutional right cannot be converted into a crime." Miller v. U.S. 230 F 486 at 489

"Where rights as secured by the Constitution are involved, there can be no rule making or legislation which will abrogate them." Miranda v. Ariz., 384 U.S. 436 at 491 (1966).

Offline MI_XD

  • MOC Member
  • *
  • Posts: 76
  • First Name (Displayed): Bob
Re: Ionia Free Fair
« Reply #4 on: July 28, 2013, 12:50:45 PM »
Only one thing.. According to the Ionia Ordinances, the fairgrounds are actually CITY property!

http://www.amlegal.com/nxt/gateway.dll/Michigan/ionia_mi/codifiedordinancesofioniamichigan?f=templates$fn=default.htm$3.0$vid=amlegal:ionia_mi

" 10).     Development of recreation/entertainment center at the Ionia Fairgrounds .

     Currently parks and recreation are lacking in the Ionia area, particularly in the areas of exhibits, shows and medium to large concerts .

     The fairgrounds is underutilized at this time (City-owned property) and could be improved for more year-round use.  In addition, a riverwalk should be constructed to tie the fairgrounds with the southern DDA boundary as well as other parts of the City.

     The fairgrounds improvements are:

          A).  Grandstand renovation

          B).  Floral building repair and renovation

          C).  Automobile and exhibit building winterizing, repair, and renovation

          D).  Roadway reconstruction to facilitate traffic.

          E).  Riverwalk construction

          F).  Fencing and restroom construction

     11).     Dexter Corridor Reconstruction"


MI_XD

MI_XD
SW Michigan
I finally can be Proud of America, again!

Offline TheQ

  • Website Content Manager
  • MOC Lifetime Member
  • *
  • Posts: 4263
    • Michigan Open Carry, Inc.
  • First Name (Displayed): Phillip
Ionia Free Fair
« Reply #5 on: July 28, 2013, 01:21:07 PM »
What does the deed say?

It doesn't matter what the city claims, more what the deed says. You could inquire with the County Register of Deeds.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk 2
I Am Not A Lawyer (nor a gunsmith).

Offline drtodd

  • MOC Member
  • *
  • Posts: 145
  • MOC Charter Member
Re: Ionia Free Fair
« Reply #6 on: July 28, 2013, 06:52:25 PM »
Well, this is very interesting. I did a deed search and matched stated owners as shown on the GIS property mapping, found liber numbers, with any deed activity such as warranty, quit claim, etc.
Here is the situation as I see it: the area known as "the fairgrounds" is composed of 7 different properties with 3 different owners: The Ionia Fair Association, the DDA, and the City of Ionia.
If you were to take a map out and look at the fairground, you notice that the DDA owns property in the North side of the property bordering West Main. Since this property is owned by the DDA (Ionia Downtown Development Authority) and the CDL seems to indicate preemption applies to authorities created by local units of government, you most likely could possess a firearm on property just south of West Main.

Now, looking at any entrances one could actually use to access the fairgrounds, "The Ionia County Fair Association" is listed on deeds as the owner. This also includes about 90% of the remainder of the property. HOWEVER, the post above is correct about the city owning the property under the grandstands. If you imagine a rectangle shaped of property with an "island" of city property under the grandstand, this would be fairly accurate. (There were a few feet off of a perfect square here and there) Therefore, although, you could carry in some areas because they are city owned, you would have to cross, at a minimum 50 feet of Fair Association property.
"The claim and exercise of a constitutional right cannot be converted into a crime." Miller v. U.S. 230 F 486 at 489

"Where rights as secured by the Constitution are involved, there can be no rule making or legislation which will abrogate them." Miranda v. Ariz., 384 U.S. 436 at 491 (1966).

Offline gryphon

  • Administrator
  • *****
  • Posts: 4038
  • First Name (Displayed): Dan
Re: Ionia Free Fair
« Reply #7 on: July 30, 2013, 01:24:52 AM »
All I know is that it is dead simple to fake a rear view mirror vendor parking pass so you can park up close next to the fair. 

Offline METL

  • Posts: 632
Re: Ionia Free Fair
« Reply #8 on: July 30, 2013, 11:46:41 AM »
All I know is that it is dead simple to fake a rear view mirror vendor parking pass so you can park up close next to the fair. 



go on....       8)