Author Topic: OC/CC for my a person useing a store motorized shopping cart/or personal motoriz  (Read 4074 times)

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Offline NHCGRPR45

  • Posts: 130
  • Macomb Twp. MI
ok my friends grandma asked if she would need a cpl while useing her motorized scooter, and a motorized scooter at stores that had them. to tell the truth i never even gave it a thought, but now that she asks i really don't have an answer. i suppose since it has a "motor" and can be driven on a sidewalk the maybe you would need a cpl, but i couldn't imagine a case pulling my friends 90 year grandma over to write a ticket. butstranger things have happened. this is a silly question i know but i just don't know.

shaun
But when a long train of abuses and usurpations, pursuing invariably the same object evinces a design to reduce them under absolute despotism, it is their right, it is their duty, to throw off such goverment, and to provide new gaurds for their future security. United States Constitution.

Offline CoonDog

  • Posts: 28
I don't know what the correct legal answer is, but I have to say that anyone willing to arrest someone in a wheelchair for a 5-year felony for attempting to carry in self-defense ought to be shamed for his remaining days as the scum of the earth.

Food for thought: a person in a wheelchair cannot ambulate in any other fashion and therefore cannot OC in any other fashion.  Should they be derived their right to self-defense?  In my ideal world: hell no.
The OC movement helps gain acceptance for all forms of carry.

Offline EM87

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I suppose it's possible it could be considered a vehicle.  I'm not sure how the law defines vehicle.  Good question...
"You'll be walking along.. OC.. and you'll feel GREAT. You'll feel FREEEEE like 1776 kind of Free." -cscitney87 (from opencarry.org)

Offline TheElk

  • Posts: 39
It's sad that the question must even be considered.
I'm MarineSgt on OCDO and smalls on MGO. Someone who can't be trusted to walk free in public with a firearm shouldn't be walking around free.

Offline TheQ

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I suppose it's possible it could be considered a vehicle.  I'm not sure how the law defines vehicle.  Good question...
From my recollection of reading the laws here:

http://www.legislature.mi.gov/documents/publications/firearms.pdf

A vehicle for concealed carry purposes is basically anything with a motor.  But my memory could br wrong, I wouldn't trust it.  It'd look in the above PDF carefully.
I Am Not A Lawyer (nor a gunsmith).

Offline TheQ

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From my recollection of reading the laws here:

http://www.legislature.mi.gov/documents/publications/firearms.pdf

A vehicle for concealed carry purposes is basically anything with a motor.  But my memory could br wrong, I wouldn't trust it.  It'd look in the above PDF carefully.

Consult 750.227d:
750.227d Transporting or possessing firearm in or upon motor vehicle or self-propelled vehicle designed
for land travel; conditions; violation as misdemeanor; penalty.
Sec. 227d. (1) Except as otherwise permitted by law, a person shall not transport or possess in or upon a motor vehicle or
any self-propelled vehicle designed for land travel
a firearm, other than a pistol, unless the firearm is unloaded and is 1 or more
of the following:
(a) Taken down.
(b) Enclosed in a case.
(c) Carried in the trunk of the vehicle.
(d) Inaccessible from the interior of the vehicle.
(2) A person who violates this section is guilty of a misdemeanor, punishable by imprisonment for not more than 90 days, or
a fine of not more than $100.00, or both.
History: Add. 1981, Act 103, Eff. Mar. 31, 1982.


I'll let the lawyers figure this one out...
I Am Not A Lawyer (nor a gunsmith).

Offline Agent1

  • Posts: 59
Consult 750.227d:
750.227d Transporting or possessing firearm in or upon motor vehicle or self-propelled vehicle designed
for land travel; conditions; violation as misdemeanor; penalty.
Sec. 227d. (1) Except as otherwise permitted by law, a person shall not transport or possess in or upon a motor vehicle or
any self-propelled vehicle designed for land travel a firearm, other than a pistol, unless the firearm is unloaded and is 1 or more
of the following:
(a) Taken down.
(b) Enclosed in a case.
(c) Carried in the trunk of the vehicle.
(d) Inaccessible from the interior of the vehicle.
(2) A person who violates this section is guilty of a misdemeanor, punishable by imprisonment for not more than 90 days, or
a fine of not more than $100.00, or both.
History: Add. 1981, Act 103, Eff. Mar. 31, 1982.


I'll let the lawyers figure this one out...
 
 
 
I'll hazard a guess and say that this statute does not apply.
"It isn't always being fast or even accurate that counts. It's being willing. I found out early that most men, regardless of cause or need, arn't willing. They blink an eye or draw a breath before they pull the trigger. I won't."
 John Wayne (The Shootist.)

Offline lil_freak_66

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werent motorized wheelchairs stated to not be a vehicle?

i know at least in the cases of public parks on the paths which are listed "no motorized vehicles" they are exempted.
My opinions are my own and do not necessarily reflect those of  Michigan Open Carry Inc, any other organization, group, person or the law of this or any other municipality,state or country unless otherwise stated.

Offline autosurgeon

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I don't think they are included as this is the only definition of a low-speed vehicle I could find.

 MICHIGAN VEHICLE CODE (EXCERPT)
Act 300 of 1949


257.25b "Low-speed vehicle" defined.

Sec. 25b.

"Low-speed vehicle" means an electrically powered vehicle designed to be operated at a speed not to exceed 35 miles per hour with a capacity of not more than 4 persons including the driver of 2,200 pounds or less in weight as described in 49 C.F.R. 571.500 that is equipped with, but not limited to, the following:

(a) Headlamps.

(b) Front and rear turn signal lamps, tail lamps, and stop lamps.

(c) Reflex reflectors: 1 red on each side as far to the rear as practicable, and 1 red on the rear.

(d) An exterior mirror mounted on the driver's side of the vehicle and either an exterior mirror mounted on the passenger's side of the vehicle or an interior mirror.

(e) A parking brake.

(f) A windshield that meets the standards prescribed by this act.

(g) A vehicle identification number.

(h) A seat belt assembly conforming to the requirements of this act installed at each designated seating position.


History: Add. 2000, Act 82, Eff. July 1, 2000
Anything I post may be my opinion and not the law... you are responsible to do your own verification.

Blackstone (1753-1765) maintains that "the law holds that it is better that ten guilty persons escape than that one innocent suffer."

Offline TheQ

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werent motorized wheelchairs stated to not be a vehicle?

i know at least in the cases of public parks on the paths which are listed "no motorized vehicles" they are exempted.

I believe the term Vehicle is defined in the link I posted.
I Am Not A Lawyer (nor a gunsmith).

Offline venator

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From my recollection of reading the laws here:

http://www.legislature.mi.gov/documents/publications/firearms.pdf

A vehicle for concealed carry purposes is basically anything with a motor.  But my memory could br wrong, I wouldn't trust it.  It'd look in the above PDF carefully.

Consult 750.227d:
750.227d Transporting or possessing firearm in or upon motor vehicle or self-propelled vehicle designed
for land travel; conditions; violation as misdemeanor; penalty.
Sec. 227d. (1) Except as otherwise permitted by law, a person shall not transport or possess in or upon a motor vehicle or
any self-propelled vehicle designed for land travel
a firearm, other than a pistol, unless the firearm is unloaded and is 1 or more
of the following:
(a) Taken down.
(b) Enclosed in a case.
(c) Carried in the trunk of the vehicle.
(d) Inaccessible from the interior of the vehicle.
(2) A person who violates this section is guilty of a misdemeanor, punishable by imprisonment for not more than 90 days, or
a fine of not more than $100.00, or both.
History: Add. 1981, Act 103, Eff. Mar. 31, 1982.


I'll let the lawyers figure this one out...

This is a hunting statute and specifically exempts pistols which are covered under other statutes.  Under the pistol statute a "vehicle" is not defined.  In law you can't take a definition of a term used in one statute and use it in another.  If no definition exists in the specific statute the courts tend to use common dictionary definitions.
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The above are my opinions only.  Please seek an attorney concerning all questions of law.

Offline cabman1

  • Posts: 93
the A.D.A.  says store motorized shopping cart/or personal motorized wheel chairs are considered extension of your legs there 4 can not be considered vehicles.
« Last Edit: July 08, 2010, 02:30:37 AM by cabman1 »
My opinions are my own and do not necessarily reflect those of  Michigan Open Carry Inc or the law.

Offline drtodd

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I looked through every definition of vehicle and it appears that an “Electric personal assistive mobility device” (this is what they are) is NEVER applicable.  The excluded from the term "vehicle" either by definition or specific exemption. I also noticed the same thing about "bicycles" too.  Therefore, IANAL/IMHO, if the legislature wanted to include an “Electric personal assistive mobility device” as applicable under the charge of "CCW- carrying in a vehicle", they would have to specifically include it.
"The claim and exercise of a constitutional right cannot be converted into a crime." Miller v. U.S. 230 F 486 at 489

"Where rights as secured by the Constitution are involved, there can be no rule making or legislation which will abrogate them." Miranda v. Ariz., 384 U.S. 436 at 491 (1966).