Author Topic: OC on a bicycle.  (Read 3628 times)

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Offline Mister B.

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OC on a bicycle.
« on: June 18, 2010, 01:35:48 PM »
In a post on my home page I have been advised that open carry on a bicycle is a gray area. Does anyone have any clarification about that? I have been seen by local gendarmes here in Warren, while out riding, without any problems. I even got a wave from one officer in a squad car when he noticed my piece. Now I'm not so sure that I am the innocent law-abiding citizen and would like some clarification before I continue riding.

I was green carded by a sheriff's deputy at a speedway without any problem. I was a gracious law abiding citizen and thanked him for being so vigilant about doing his job. Next time I might not be so cooperative until after I'm sure he understands that he is discriminating against me because I'm the only peaceful person on the premises with a hand gun and that he has no other reason to be questioning me. I will do so politely of course while being a cooperative citizen.

Offline Evil Creamsicle

  • Commie Rifle Fetishist
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Re: OC on a bicycle.
« Reply #1 on: June 19, 2010, 12:24:03 PM »
750.227 subsection (2) reads as follows:

Quote
(2) A person shall not carry a pistol concealed on or about his or her person, or, whether concealed or otherwise, in a vehicle operated or occupied by the person, except in his or her dwelling house, place of business, or on other land possessed by the person, without a license to carry the pistol as provided by law and if licensed, shall not carry the pistol in a place or manner inconsistent with any restrictions upon such license.

The problem lies in the fact that the word 'vehicle', as it pertains to this section, has never been legally defined. The gray area, then, is 'does a bicycle qualify as a vehicle'.
Once armed, a free man can never be disarmed. Only defeated.

Offline EM87

  • Posts: 78
Re: OC on a bicycle.
« Reply #2 on: June 19, 2010, 03:20:20 PM »
It is a gray area because of what was said by EC.  The law does not define 'vehicle'.  Is a bicycle a vehicle?  It could be interpreted that way by some.  Best not to be a test case.
"You'll be walking along.. OC.. and you'll feel GREAT. You'll feel FREEEEE like 1776 kind of Free." -cscitney87 (from opencarry.org)

Offline Bronson

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Those who expect to reap the benefits of freedom, must, like men, undergo the fatigue of supporting it. – Thomas Paine

Offline Evil Creamsicle

  • Commie Rifle Fetishist
  • Posts: 156
Re: OC on a bicycle.
« Reply #4 on: June 20, 2010, 12:57:55 PM »
As I understand it since the statute doesn't define "vehicle" or reference another law that defines what a vehicle is then it would be appropriate to use a dictionary definition.

Merriam-Webster's online dictionary defines it as: 4 : a means of carrying or transporting something

yourdictionary.com defines it as: any device or contrivance for carrying or conveying persons or objects, esp. over land or in space, as an automobile, bicycle, sled, or spacecraft

and dictionary.com defines it as: 1. any means in or by which someone travels or something is carried or conveyed; a means of conveyance or transport: a motor vehicle; space vehicles.
2. a conveyance moving on wheels, runners, tracks, or the like, as a cart, sled, automobile, or tractor.


I am not a lawyer and this is just my layman's understanding.  Always seek competent legal counsel for questions regarding the law.

Bronson

To further elaborate, I believe that when a statute has not defined a term, and it comes into question in court, the court is supposed to reference the dictionary as well...

Best not to be a test case in my opinion.
Once armed, a free man can never be disarmed. Only defeated.

Offline drtodd

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Re: OC on a bicycle.
« Reply #5 on: July 16, 2010, 12:21:23 PM »
As I understand it since the statute doesn't define "vehicle" or reference another law that defines what a vehicle is then it would be appropriate to use a dictionary definition.

Merriam-Webster's online dictionary defines it as: 4 : a means of carrying or transporting something

yourdictionary.com defines it as: any device or contrivance for carrying or conveying persons or objects, esp. over land or in space, as an automobile, bicycle, sled, or spacecraft

and dictionary.com defines it as: 1. any means in or by which someone travels or something is carried or conveyed; a means of conveyance or transport: a motor vehicle; space vehicles.
2. a conveyance moving on wheels, runners, tracks, or the like, as a cart, sled, automobile, or tractor.


I am not a lawyer and this is just my layman's understanding.  Always seek competent legal counsel for questions regarding the law.

Bronson

To further elaborate, I believe that when a statute has not defined a term, and it comes into question in court, the court is supposed to reference the dictionary as well...

Best not to be a test case in my opinion.

Dictionary definition is more of a "may" than a "shall".
As long as there is no STARE DECISIS, they can also use the definition elsewhere in the law, unpublished opinions that does not fall under stare decis, and even transcripts of the legislature discussing the law, in order to find what they believe was the intent of the legislature.
"The claim and exercise of a constitutional right cannot be converted into a crime." Miller v. U.S. 230 F 486 at 489

"Where rights as secured by the Constitution are involved, there can be no rule making or legislation which will abrogate them." Miranda v. Ariz., 384 U.S. 436 at 491 (1966).

Offline kc8swy

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Re: OC on a bicycle.
« Reply #6 on: July 31, 2010, 10:19:04 AM »
I OC a G26 in an ankle holster when I ride my road bike.  I do have a CPL though.  No good way of CC when wearing spandex.  I've considered a handlebar bag, but many rides involve leaving the bike and grabbing a bagel with the group.  I've had police cars directly behind me and no issues.  I've considered putting a P3AT or an LCP in a jersey pocket, but I wouldn't want to fall on something hard in a jersey pocket.  The G26 would handle a fall no problem, and I think it would save the leg from road rash. 

I have to decide what to do this winter when I ride, as I ride year round. -- more clothes, and studded tires.