Author Topic: The Stopping Power Of Different Handgun Cartridges  (Read 18468 times)

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Offline gryphon

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The Stopping Power Of Different Handgun Cartridges
« on: October 11, 2013, 05:44:42 PM »
General Julian Hatcher, a noted forensic pathologist, in the early 1900’s developed a good formula to determine the theoretical stopping power of a firearm cartridge. His formula has withstood the test of time and validation from other studies and data related to stopping power.

You want a handgun cartridge that has a Hatcher value of over 50 for the most effective stopping power. Values over 55 have diminishing returns in that you don’t gain any significant increase in stopping power for the extra recoil and control you must cope with. Handgun cartridges that don’t make a value of at least 50, should not considered for self-defense. If the rating of your handgun cartridge is under 30, it only has about a 30% chance of producing a one shot stop. Hatcher Ratings of 30 to 49 raise a one shot stop to approximately a 50% chance. Ratings of 50 or higher produce a one shot stop about 90% of the time.

Handgun Cartridge Type ..................... Hatcher Rating

.45 ACP full metal jacket 230 grain .......... 49.1

.45 ACP jacketed hollow point 230 grain ...... 60.7

.44 Magnum full metal jacket 240 grain ....... 92.3

*.44 Magnum lead wad cutter 240 grain ......... 136.8

.44 Special full metal jacket 240 grain ...... 51.6

*.44 Special lead wad cutter 240 grain ............. 76.5

.41 Magnum full metal jacket 230 grain ............. 54

*.41 Magnum lead wad cutter 230 grain .............. 80

10 millimeter full metal jacket 180 grain .......... 50.3

10 millimeter jacketed hollow point 180 grain ..62.1

.40 S&W full metal jacket flat nose 180 grain ...... 53.4

.40 S&W jacketed hollow point 180 grain ....... 59.4

.38 Special full metal jacket 158 grain ...... 26.7

*.38 Special lead wad cutter 158 grain ............. 39.7

**.357 Magnum full metal jacket 158 grain ..... 32.7

**.357 Magnum lead wad cutter 158 grain ............ 48.5

.357 SIG full metal jacket 147 grain ................ 36.6

.357 SIG jacketed hollow point 147 grain ..... 45.2

9 millimeter full metal jacket 147 grain ............ 32.3

9 millimeter jacketed hollow point 147 grain ... 39.9

.380 Auto jacketed hollow point 95 grain ..... 18.3

.32 Auto jacketed hollow point 71 grain ...... 11.1

.25 Auto jacketed hollow point 50 grain ...... 3.7

.22 Long Rifle jacketed hollow point 40 grain ... 4.2

* Jacketed hollow points will have the same rating as wad cutter bullets if the bullet hollow tip is greater than 1/2 of the caliber of the bullet.

* .357 Magnum ratings are taken from a firearm with a 3 inch barrel. Longer barrels will raise the rating of the round.


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Offline gryphon

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Re: The Stopping Power Of Different Handgun Cartridges
« Reply #1 on: October 11, 2013, 05:48:02 PM »
Interesting that .40S&W JHP is significantly higher than .357 SIG JHP, although tests were done with a heavier weight bullet in the .40.  I've switched from 180gr. to 165gr. for SD ammo in my .40s, though.

Offline Jeff

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Re: The Stopping Power Of Different Handgun Cartridges
« Reply #2 on: October 11, 2013, 06:00:50 PM »
Modern ammo is made to the same specifications as far as penetration so all the JHP's are going to perform about the same.

And a .22 to the heart is going to kill you all the same as a .45 to the heart

Shot placement has more to do with a 1 shot stop than a certain caliber

Offline Pond Scum

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Re: The Stopping Power Of Different Handgun Cartridges
« Reply #3 on: October 11, 2013, 09:19:48 PM »
.....

And a .22 to the heart is going to kill you all the same as a .45 to the heart

Shot placement has more to do with a 1 shot stop than a certain caliber

Yes but another important factor to consider is stopping fast.  A 45 to the heart will stop faster than a 22 .... but how fast can you get 5 shots of 22 in the heart compared to shooting 45 ???  Endless permutations to consider ..... but I believe the most important thing is to get a gun you will carry all the time and get something that you are comfortable shooting and that you have confidence in. 

 

Offline part deux

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Re: The Stopping Power Of Different Handgun Cartridges
« Reply #4 on: October 11, 2013, 09:22:03 PM »
one wild card is the .22  It usually won't stop someone, but it has an amazingly high death rate.

Offline fozzy71

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Re: The Stopping Power Of Different Handgun Cartridges
« Reply #5 on: October 11, 2013, 09:39:31 PM »
No 5.7x28 on the list?

Do I really need to consider switching out my EDC 9's for 40's?   :-X

Offline Jeff

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Re: The Stopping Power Of Different Handgun Cartridges
« Reply #6 on: October 11, 2013, 11:20:31 PM »
I still take no stock in the chart.  I have seen ballistics tests with modern ammo, they all compare about the same because they all have the same standards they need to comply with.

Even if you blow someones heart up, the brain still has enough oxygen to function for awhile, the only guaranteed 1 stop shot is a head shot which any caliber can manage.

Offline gryphon

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Re: The Stopping Power Of Different Handgun Cartridges
« Reply #7 on: October 12, 2013, 10:53:52 AM »
I still take no stock in the chart.
A 15 pound bowling ball, "round nose" at 5 fps has 5.8 ft-lbs of kinetic energy. It has a relative stopping factor of 432,822. 

Offline Jeff

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Re: The Stopping Power Of Different Handgun Cartridges
« Reply #8 on: October 12, 2013, 11:44:04 AM »
When I drink milk or eat taco bell, I have a much higher relative stopping power than a brick wall.  OOOO YEAH!!!!

Offline linux203

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Re: The Stopping Power Of Different Handgun Cartridges
« Reply #9 on: October 12, 2013, 11:24:07 PM »
Shoot the largest caliber that you can shoot accurately and meets your carry style.  When you are at the grocery store, a .380 on the hip has more stopping power than a .45 in the night stand.
When a strong man, fully armed, guards his own palace, his goods are in peace. Luke 11:21

Then He said to them, “But now, he who has a money bag, let him take it, and likewise a knapsack; and he who has no sword, let him sell his garment and buy one."  Luke 22:36

Offline 32_d3gr33s

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Re: The Stopping Power Of Different Handgun Cartridges
« Reply #10 on: October 13, 2013, 12:36:43 AM »
funny thing is when you compare his results next to actual deaths by caliber...

http://www.buckeyefirearms.org/node/7866
I could write something cliché and insightful, but that would be too cliché and insightful.

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Offline Pond Scum

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Re: The Stopping Power Of Different Handgun Cartridges
« Reply #11 on: October 13, 2013, 10:27:34 AM »
funny thing is when you compare his results next to actual deaths by caliber...

http://www.buckeyefirearms.org/node/7866

Good article .... thanks for posting.

Offline FASBOLD

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Re: The Stopping Power Of Different Handgun Cartridges
« Reply #12 on: October 13, 2013, 11:15:46 AM »
The author of this article
Quote
http://www.buckeyefirearms.org/node/7866
has a theory that handguns with a higher rate of fire have a lower score on one hit stops simply because they can get off more rounds after the first hit. That makes sense. If you put multiple rounds on target in 5 seconds and the first round takes 5 seconds to stop the person, this makes sense.

I like the YouTube video that talks about handgun vs. rifle wounds.
Quote
This is a doctor who is reporting what he sees, and all handguns have similar penetration. So do we use ball FMJ ammo in the Michigan winters because of all the layers people wear?
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Offline Jeff

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Re: The Stopping Power Of Different Handgun Cartridges
« Reply #13 on: October 13, 2013, 11:52:32 AM »
So do we use ball FMJ ammo in the Michigan winters because of all the layers people wear?

I know a lot of people who swear by doing that, it is something that I was considering.  Just wasn't sure how much an extra hoodie or jacket would matter.  I can't see a thug trying to stab me to death wearing a snow suit though.

Offline autosurgeon

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Re: The Stopping Power Of Different Handgun Cartridges
« Reply #14 on: October 13, 2013, 12:35:24 PM »
What does JHP do when it plugs up? It acts like FMJ ...so why would carrying FMJ be better?

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Offline Jeff

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Re: The Stopping Power Of Different Handgun Cartridges
« Reply #15 on: October 13, 2013, 12:46:35 PM »
What does JHP do when it plugs up? It acts like FMJ ...so why would carrying FMJ be better?



Well when a JHP expands it dumps a lot of it's energy lessening it's penetration, a FMJ won't deform as much and continue to push through retaining more energy.

Offline autosurgeon

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Re: Re: The Stopping Power Of Different Handgun Cartridges
« Reply #16 on: October 13, 2013, 01:21:15 PM »
Well when a JHP expands it dumps a lot of it's energy lessening it's penetration, a FMJ won't deform as much and continue to push through retaining more energy.

However your reason for carrying fmj is that it will penetrate better in heavy clothing. However the only reason this might be true is if the jhp expanded in clothing however this does not happen I have tested it. It takes liquid or liquid filled tissue to cause enough hydrostatic pressure to expand the bullet.

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Anything I post may be my opinion and not the law... you are responsible to do your own verification.

Blackstone (1753-1765) maintains that "the law holds that it is better that ten guilty persons escape than that one innocent suffer."

Offline Jeff

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Re: Re: The Stopping Power Of Different Handgun Cartridges
« Reply #17 on: October 13, 2013, 02:17:39 PM »
However your reason for carrying fmj is that it will penetrate better in heavy clothing. However the only reason this might be true is if the jhp expanded in clothing however this does not happen I have tested it. It takes liquid or liquid filled tissue to cause enough hydrostatic pressure to expand the bullet.



I don't have the freedom to test such things out myself I just have to go by data of others or watch video results.  I do know that a JHP will expand upon impact but you could very well be right that the clothing doesn't provide enough resistance to the projectile to cause expansion(or significant expansion) until it hits the much harder surface of the skin.  I would have to say though that a FMJ will penetrate further than a JHP, and every time you increase the thickness of the barrier it will slow the projectile down further as it passes through.

Offline Glock9mmOldStyle

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Re: Re: The Stopping Power Of Different Handgun Cartridges
« Reply #18 on: October 13, 2013, 09:45:06 PM »
Shoot the largest caliber that you can shoot accurately and meets your carry style.  When you are at the grocery store, a .380 on the hip has more stopping power than a .45 in the night stand.

^^^^
THIS! 22 in hand is far superior to a 20mm cannon at home. ;)
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Offline gryphon

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Re: Re: The Stopping Power Of Different Handgun Cartridges
« Reply #19 on: October 14, 2013, 03:29:22 PM »
a FMJ will penetrate further than a JHP

That is why some argue that .380 ACP should only be FMJ as the .380 suffers from penetration issues anyway.