Author Topic: CPL  (Read 6290 times)

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Offline duff1

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CPL
« on: November 03, 2013, 04:00:21 PM »
 A good friend who has a CPL asked me if I know anything about using medical marijuana. Can his CPL be taken away ?

Offline gryphon

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Re: CPL
« Reply #1 on: November 03, 2013, 04:16:28 PM »
There are a few older threads about this on OCDO.  Gun boards have refused to renew people's CPLs if they have MM cards.  Best thread is the first one.

26 page thread Medical Marihuana & CPL?

1 page thread CPL denial/appeal question

2 page thread How much access does the gun board have??

2 page thread firearm/medical marijuana with green card issue

5 page thread B.A.T.F.E. Rules on Medical Marijuana.

1 page thread No CPLs for HeadShops?
« Last Edit: November 03, 2013, 05:02:15 PM by gryphon »

Offline Glock9mmOldStyle

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Re: CPL
« Reply #2 on: November 03, 2013, 10:21:52 PM »
Short answer is yes. Gun Boards can deny you for anything, will it hold up in court is the real question - if it's over the applicant taking illegal drugs....it may very well hold up. One must remeber even though MI has medical pot laws on the books - those laws do not supercede the contract you enter into by signing your CPL application, nor do they negate federal law.
"It is now more likely that a person will be the victim of a violent crime than that he will be in an auto accident. Despite this, most people readily believe that the existence of the police relieves them of the responsibility to take full measures to protect themselves."
 -Jeffrey Snyder 1993

Offline linux203

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Re: CPL
« Reply #3 on: November 04, 2013, 12:16:21 AM »
MCL 28.425k(2)
Quote
An individual shall not carry a concealed pistol or portable device that uses electro-muscular disruption technology while he or she is under the influence of alcoholic liquor or a controlled substance or while having a bodily alcohol content prohibited under this section.

MCL 28.425k(9)
Quote
As used in this section:

(a) "Alcoholic liquor" means that term as defined in section 105 of the Michigan liquor control code of 1998, 1998 PA 58, MCL 436.1105.

(b) "Controlled substance" means that term as defined in section 7104 of the public health code, 1978 PA 368, MCL 333.7104.

MCL 333.7104(2)
Quote
“Controlled substance” means a drug, substance, or immediate precursor included in schedules 1 to 5 of part 72.

MCL 333.7212(1) lists marihuana, extracts of cannibis, and other cannabinoids.

Here's the big kicker... MCL 28.425k(4)
Quote
A peace officer who has probable cause to believe an individual is carrying a concealed pistol or a portable device using electro-muscular disruption technology in violation of this section may require the individual to submit to a chemical analysis of his or her breath, blood, or urine.

I'm guessing that possessing a medical marijuana card and a CPL could be considered probable cause for a drug test.  I can't see that ending well.

When a strong man, fully armed, guards his own palace, his goods are in peace. Luke 11:21

Then He said to them, “But now, he who has a money bag, let him take it, and likewise a knapsack; and he who has no sword, let him sell his garment and buy one."  Luke 22:36

Offline TheQ

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CPL
« Reply #4 on: November 04, 2013, 03:17:02 PM »
Some people who have a medical marijuana card don't use it, rather they only grow it.
I Am Not A Lawyer (nor a gunsmith).

Offline gryphon

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Re: CPL
« Reply #5 on: November 04, 2013, 03:24:46 PM »
I wonder if MM is covered under the ACA metal policies.

JohnnyLovesHisGlocks

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Re: CPL
« Reply #6 on: January 05, 2014, 04:04:53 AM »
Would you suggest that an alcoholic be allowed or trusted to lawfully carry about a concealed loaded firearm in public?
I do not think that the gun board would like proudly upon one who abuses Marijuana.

Offline mosnar87

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Re: CPL
« Reply #7 on: January 05, 2014, 08:09:47 AM »
Define abuse? I do not, nor have I ever, used any mind altering substances.
I nevertheless see no reason that the legal use of any mind altering substances should abridge any of your other rights except perhaps during any periods of intoxication.
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Offline TheQ

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CPL
« Reply #8 on: January 05, 2014, 11:10:20 AM »
From my objective research on the topic, marijuana is not addictive.

If it is addictive, it is certainly far less addictive than alcohol.


An alcoholic is someone who is addicted to alcohol. Since there is no addiction to marijuana…


Should someone that is high be carrying a weapon? Probably not.

Then again, them merely carrying it harms no one. If the do something harmful with it, then there is a problem the law (or, if needed, someone else with a gun) should address.
I Am Not A Lawyer (nor a gunsmith).

Offline Smashfacekrav

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CPL
« Reply #9 on: January 05, 2014, 03:53:42 PM »
Addicted or not, all drugs cause poor judgement.  I don't carry any weapon if I plan to have a drink or two. Although I much rather carry than drink so this limits my consumption.  I am older now so I do make better decisions based of my younger not so wise decisions.


"May God have mercy on my enemies, because I won't."
General George Patton

JohnnyLovesHisGlocks

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Re: CPL
« Reply #10 on: January 06, 2014, 01:39:57 AM »
I am only suggesting that Marijuana is an intoxicating substance when smoked.
I am not implying that the substance itself is addictive to everyone, maybe its the personality of somebody.
Take for instance the simplest of things,video games. Addictive to some people " those who wait in line for hours or days for the new Grand Theft Auto " and then you have those who partake in being lazy on the weekends while playing a few hours here and there.... its the personality that defines what some things can be addictive or not, unless it's something that is naturally addictive by nature.  Hell this isn't even a conversation about if Marijuana is addictive or to define abuse. We all learned that in health class  8)

If you have it medically prescribed then sure, its completely legal.
I see that if you have an unhealthy obsession with the consumption then maybe it wouldn't be a good idea to be carrying around a firearm.
Never the less its against the law to carry while intoxicated.

Offline SD40VE

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Re: CPL
« Reply #11 on: January 06, 2014, 03:48:31 PM »
MM holders cant buy guns legally, there is a question on the 4473 or whatever form, since the fed govt considers it a controlled substance.... i dont have a MM card nor use the substance but i have had friend get denied CPL renewals due to having a MM card

Offline CV67PAT

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Re: CPL
« Reply #12 on: January 06, 2014, 05:53:20 PM »
MM holders cant buy guns legally, there is a question on the 4473 or whatever form, since the fed govt considers it a controlled substance....
Inaccurate.

i dont have a MM card nor use the substance but i have had friend get denied CPL renewals due to having a MM card
What county?
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Offline karudin

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Re: CPL
« Reply #13 on: January 06, 2014, 11:27:31 PM »
This is an interesting thread. While waiting for my CPL recently I decided to go through some of the CPL reports and I found that people were getting denied or having theirs revoked because of medical marijuana. If you look at the 2011-2012 report and search for "medical" you'll find that 8 CPLs were revoked because they had medical marijuana. Now I understand that when you get a CPL it states no illegal substances but with Michigan approving medical marijuana would that not exempt people from this? I thought state law is supposed to trump federal law on this aspect. Now if you are caught smoking while carrying that is a whole different story, but I my understanding is that this should not automatically cause your license to be revoked. I'm sure someone else on here has a better grasp of the law, but that is my 2 cents.

P.S. No MM license here just speculation on my understanding of the laws.

Offline CV67PAT

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Re: CPL
« Reply #14 on: January 07, 2014, 01:05:12 PM »
This is an interesting thread. While waiting for my CPL recently I decided to go through some of the CPL reports and I found that people were getting denied or having theirs revoked because of medical marijuana. If you look at the 2011-2012 report and search for "medical" you'll find that 8 CPLs were revoked because they had medical marijuana. Now I understand that when you get a CPL it states no illegal substances but with Michigan approving medical marijuana would that not exempt people from this? I thought state law is supposed to trump federal law on this aspect. Now if you are caught smoking while carrying that is a whole different story, but I my understanding is that this should not automatically cause your license to be revoked. I'm sure someone else on here has a better grasp of the law, but that is my 2 cents.

P.S. No MM license here just speculation on my understanding of the laws.
Some links please. I didn't see a single mention of MM in the entire 198 pages of the 2011-2012 report. Saw numerous references to possession of a controlled substance - Mary Jane. But nothing about medi-pot.
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Offline Raggs

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Re: CPL
« Reply #15 on: January 07, 2014, 02:10:41 PM »
http://www.michigan.gov/documents/msp/2012_Concealed_Pistol_Licensing_Annual_Report_434112_7.pdf

In eaton one persons CPL was revoked for using medical marijuanna
While other counties revoked cards for people who have MM cards

Offline karudin

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Re: CPL
« Reply #16 on: January 07, 2014, 02:25:07 PM »
Raggs thanks for posting the link, didn't think to do that. If you follow that link and just search medical you'll see that 3 counties revoked licenses based on that. Attached is a screenshot of Eaton County.


Offline CV67PAT

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Re: CPL
« Reply #17 on: January 07, 2014, 04:26:11 PM »
http://www.michigan.gov/documents/msp/2012_Concealed_Pistol_Licensing_Annual_Report_434112_7.pdf

In eaton one persons CPL was revoked for using medical marijuanna
While other counties revoked cards for people who have MM cards
I got the report. It was easy. I even referenced the entire 198 pages. I was seeking specifics. Which counties revoked cards of people having MM cards?  But thanks anyhow for at least trying to help.

How do you search in the link?

ETA: Nevermind. Found it.
« Last Edit: January 07, 2014, 04:35:36 PM by CV67PAT »
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Offline CV67PAT

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Re: CPL
« Reply #18 on: January 07, 2014, 04:42:55 PM »
Interesting...
4 for MM cards in Oakland County
3 for MM cards in Livingston County
1 MM user in Eaton County.

There are hundreds of thousands of CPLs and probably 10s of thousands of MM cards. For only one incident of a MM user revocation and 7 card carrier revocations, there's got to be more to these stories.
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Offline gryphon

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Re: CPL
« Reply #19 on: January 07, 2014, 06:56:42 PM »