CPL

[duff1]

 A good friend who has a CPL asked me if I know anything about using medical marijuana. Can his CPL be taken away ?

[gryphon]

There are a few older threads about this on OCDO.  Gun boards have refused to renew people's CPLs if they have MM cards.  Best thread is the first one.

26 page thread Medical Marihuana & CPL?

1 page thread CPL denial/appeal question

2 page thread How much access does the gun board have??

2 page thread firearm/medical marijuana with green card issue

5 page thread B.A.T.F.E. Rules on Medical Marijuana.

1 page thread No CPLs for HeadShops?

[Glock9mmOldStyle]

Short answer is yes. Gun Boards can deny you for anything, will it hold up in court is the real question - if it's over the applicant taking illegal drugs....it may very well hold up. One must remeber even though MI has medical pot laws on the books - those laws do not supercede the contract you enter into by signing your CPL application, nor do they negate federal law.

[linux203]

MCL 28.425k(2)

An individual shall not carry a concealed pistol or portable device that uses electro-muscular disruption technology while he or she is under the influence of alcoholic liquor or a controlled substance or while having a bodily alcohol content prohibited under this section.

MCL 28.425k(9)

As used in this section:

(a) "Alcoholic liquor" means that term as defined in section 105 of the Michigan liquor control code of 1998, 1998 PA 58, MCL 436.1105.

(b) "Controlled substance" means that term as defined in section 7104 of the public health code, 1978 PA 368, MCL 333.7104.

MCL 333.7104(2)

“Controlled substance” means a drug, substance, or immediate precursor included in schedules 1 to 5 of part 72.

MCL 333.7212(1) lists marihuana, extracts of cannibis, and other cannabinoids.

Here's the big kicker... MCL 28.425k(4)

A peace officer who has probable cause to believe an individual is carrying a concealed pistol or a portable device using electro-muscular disruption technology in violation of this section may require the individual to submit to a chemical analysis of his or her breath, blood, or urine.

I'm guessing that possessing a medical marijuana card and a CPL could be considered probable cause for a drug test.  I can't see that ending well.

[TheQ]

Some people who have a medical marijuana card don't use it, rather they only grow it.

[gryphon]

I wonder if MM is covered under the ACA metal policies.

[JohnnyLovesHisGlocks]

Would you suggest that an alcoholic be allowed or trusted to lawfully carry about a concealed loaded firearm in public?
I do not think that the gun board would like proudly upon one who abuses Marijuana.

[mosnar87]

Define abuse? I do not, nor have I ever, used any mind altering substances.
I nevertheless see no reason that the legal use of any mind altering substances should abridge any of your other rights except perhaps during any periods of intoxication.

[TheQ]

From my objective research on the topic, marijuana is not addictive.

If it is addictive, it is certainly far less addictive than alcohol.


An alcoholic is someone who is addicted to alcohol. Since there is no addiction to marijuana…


Should someone that is high be carrying a weapon? Probably not.

Then again, them merely carrying it harms no one. If the do something harmful with it, then there is a problem the law (or, if needed, someone else with a gun) should address.

[Smashfacekrav]

Addicted or not, all drugs cause poor judgement.  I don't carry any weapon if I plan to have a drink or two. Although I much rather carry than drink so this limits my consumption.  I am older now so I do make better decisions based of my younger not so wise decisions.


"May God have mercy on my enemies, because I won't."
General George Patton

[JohnnyLovesHisGlocks]

I am only suggesting that Marijuana is an intoxicating substance when smoked.
I am not implying that the substance itself is addictive to everyone, maybe its the personality of somebody.
Take for instance the simplest of things,video games. Addictive to some people " those who wait in line for hours or days for the new Grand Theft Auto " and then you have those who partake in being lazy on the weekends while playing a few hours here and there.... its the personality that defines what some things can be addictive or not, unless it's something that is naturally addictive by nature.  Hell this isn't even a conversation about if Marijuana is addictive or to define abuse. We all learned that in health class 

If you have it medically prescribed then sure, its completely legal.
I see that if you have an unhealthy obsession with the consumption then maybe it wouldn't be a good idea to be carrying around a firearm.
Never the less its against the law to carry while intoxicated.

[SD40VE]

MM holders cant buy guns legally, there is a question on the 4473 or whatever form, since the fed govt considers it a controlled substance.... i dont have a MM card nor use the substance but i have had friend get denied CPL renewals due to having a MM card

[CV67PAT]

MM holders cant buy guns legally, there is a question on the 4473 or whatever form, since the fed govt considers it a controlled substance....

Inaccurate.

i dont have a MM card nor use the substance but i have had friend get denied CPL renewals due to having a MM card

What county?

[karudin]

This is an interesting thread. While waiting for my CPL recently I decided to go through some of the CPL reports and I found that people were getting denied or having theirs revoked because of medical marijuana. If you look at the 2011-2012 report and search for "medical" you'll find that 8 CPLs were revoked because they had medical marijuana. Now I understand that when you get a CPL it states no illegal substances but with Michigan approving medical marijuana would that not exempt people from this? I thought state law is supposed to trump federal law on this aspect. Now if you are caught smoking while carrying that is a whole different story, but I my understanding is that this should not automatically cause your license to be revoked. I'm sure someone else on here has a better grasp of the law, but that is my 2 cents.

P.S. No MM license here just speculation on my understanding of the laws.

[CV67PAT]

This is an interesting thread. While waiting for my CPL recently I decided to go through some of the CPL reports and I found that people were getting denied or having theirs revoked because of medical marijuana. If you look at the 2011-2012 report and search for "medical" you'll find that 8 CPLs were revoked because they had medical marijuana. Now I understand that when you get a CPL it states no illegal substances but with Michigan approving medical marijuana would that not exempt people from this? I thought state law is supposed to trump federal law on this aspect. Now if you are caught smoking while carrying that is a whole different story, but I my understanding is that this should not automatically cause your license to be revoked. I'm sure someone else on here has a better grasp of the law, but that is my 2 cents.

P.S. No MM license here just speculation on my understanding of the laws.

Some links please. I didn't see a single mention of MM in the entire 198 pages of the 2011-2012 report. Saw numerous references to possession of a controlled substance - Mary Jane. But nothing about medi-pot.

[Raggs]

http://www.michigan.gov/documents/msp/2012_Concealed_Pistol_Licensing_Annual_Report_434112_7.pdf

In eaton one persons CPL was revoked for using medical marijuanna
While other counties revoked cards for people who have MM cards

[karudin]

Raggs thanks for posting the link, didn't think to do that. If you follow that link and just search medical you'll see that 3 counties revoked licenses based on that. Attached is a screenshot of Eaton County.

[CV67PAT]

http://www.michigan.gov/documents/msp/2012_Concealed_Pistol_Licensing_Annual_Report_434112_7.pdf

In eaton one persons CPL was revoked for using medical marijuanna
While other counties revoked cards for people who have MM cards

I got the report. It was easy. I even referenced the entire 198 pages. I was seeking specifics. Which counties revoked cards of people having MM cards?  But thanks anyhow for at least trying to help.

How do you search in the link?

ETA: Nevermind. Found it.

[CV67PAT]

Interesting...
4 for MM cards in Oakland County
3 for MM cards in Livingston County
1 MM user in Eaton County.

There are hundreds of thousands of CPLs and probably 10s of thousands of MM cards. For only one incident of a MM user revocation and 7 card carrier revocations, there's got to be more to these stories.

[gryphon]

There are hundreds of thousands of CPLs

About 426,000 as of today.

http://mi.gov/documents/msp/ccw_county_report_approved_273955_7.pdf

[Jeff]

There are hundreds of thousands of CPLs and probably 10s of thousands of MM cards. For only one incident of a MM user revocation and 7 card carrier revocations, there's got to be more to these stories.

I am thinking that as well, perhaps a long history of drug abuse with a few other charges AND they were issued a MM card.

[CV67PAT]

I am thinking that as well, perhaps a long history of drug abuse with a few other charges AND they were issued a MM card.

Or maybe as simple as during an "encounter" the individual exercises some rights and is perceived to be "uncooperative" by the LEO who later discovers that their is a MM card issued to the person and "discusses" that fact with the County Gun Board.

[Jeff]

Or maybe as simple as during an "encounter" the individual exercises some rights and is perceived to be "uncooperative" by the LEO who later discovers that their is a MM card issued to the person and "discusses" that fact with the County Gun Board.

...Politics

[karudin]

I agree there has to be something to the 8 individuals that had their license revoked, I was just saying that it was cited specifically as the cause of a license being revoked.  I wouldn't put it past LEOs to use to against someone they don't like. Until there is some sort of precedence  set on having a CPL and MM license I think it is purely a personal/political decision. If it is some average Joe that rubs a cop the wrong way (has done nothing illegal) they will probably get it revoked, but if it is someone with money or politically connected I'm sure they'd just look the other way.

Now the question is, how many licenses don't get issued because a person has a MM license. All they have to do is classify the denial as "Licensing Board Decision" and no one can really determine if gun boards are denying based on MM license. I could be wrong, honestly haven't taken the time to dig into it too much.

[Jeff]

All they have to do is classify the denial as "Licensing Board Decision" and no one can really determine if gun boards are denying based on MM license. I could be wrong, honestly haven't taken the time to dig into it too much.

They could take it to court and force them to try to explain why they denied the license, if they had no legitimate reason the person will get their CPL.

[karudin]

They could take it to court and force them to try to explain why they denied the li. nse, if they had no legitimate reason the person will get their CPL.

I meant we as in you and I do think know why they were denied. I know if i was denied and they didnt give me a straight forward reason i would be digging.