Author Topic: Michigan Supreme Court denies CADL leave to appeal  (Read 18399 times)

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Offline jgillmanjr

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Re: Michigan Supreme Court denies CADL leave to appeal
« Reply #20 on: November 22, 2013, 06:20:55 AM »
J and M are next to each other on a QWERTY keyboard.  I say typo.

Actually, although you are still quite smart for using Linux (Debian > * b***hes), it is not actually a typo.

You'll see this in other opinions as well (all that I've looked at, in fact) - both supreme court and COA.

I think the J just refers to the fact they are a justice or judge. I'm not 100% sure, but this is the only thing I can think of. You'll also see P.J. (I'm guessing Primary Justice/Judge) and JJ (probably just indicative of a 'regular' Justice/Judge).

So for example, if you look at the Partial Concurrence/Dissent (http://publicdocs.courts.mi.gov:81/opinions/final/coa/20121025_c304582(65)_rptr_140o-304582-final.pdf) for the COA case, you'll see GLEICHER, P.J. even though the first name and middle initital are Elizabeth L.

Like I said, I'm not 100% what the J stands for, but I'm 99.999999999999999999999% that it's not a typo.
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Offline sircapsalot

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Re: Michigan Supreme Court denies CADL leave to appeal
« Reply #21 on: November 22, 2013, 10:17:38 AM »
Thank you everyone. (I missed the Announcement section earlier)  :-[

did you make a post on it too? I did too and immediately saw it in announcements  ::)

Offline part deux

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Re: Michigan Supreme Court denies CADL leave to appeal
« Reply #22 on: November 22, 2013, 11:46:16 AM »
So for example, if you look at the Partial Concurrence/Dissent (http://publicdocs.courts.mi.gov:81/opinions/final/coa/20121025_c304582(65)_rptr_140o-304582-final.pdf) for the COA case, you'll see GLEICHER, P.J. even though the first name and middle initital are Elizabeth L.
Link fails :(

Offline gryphon

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Re: Michigan Supreme Court denies CADL leave to appeal
« Reply #23 on: November 22, 2013, 12:51:11 PM »
Link fails :(

Someone included the closing parenthesis in the URL. 

Just delete it, part deux.

Offline part deux

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Re: Michigan Supreme Court denies CADL leave to appeal
« Reply #24 on: November 22, 2013, 11:01:45 PM »
DOH, normally I catch stuff like that :(

thank you!

Offline woodtic31

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Re: Michigan Supreme Court denies CADL leave to appeal
« Reply #25 on: November 23, 2013, 10:53:48 AM »
Michigan is now a better place to live!
 
Onward to Constitutional Carry!!!!

Big THANKS to those that put forth the effort to preserve our RIGHT to Open Carry!!
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Offline drtodd

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Re: Re: Michigan Supreme Court denies CADL leave to appeal
« Reply #26 on: November 24, 2013, 03:04:33 PM »
This is significant. Very significant. The win is actually in the Court of Appeals opinion. The use of wording contained therein, such as "occupies the whole field" completely and the fact that the description of a "local unit of government" was broaden beyond the statute's narrow definition means that anything representing a form of government is strictly prohibited from enacting any "policies" restricting firearm possession.
I know a community college that will soon be getting an education.

So who is going to OC at a Lions game? Can the NFL ban pistols from a place owned by an "Authority"? Hmm.
"The claim and exercise of a constitutional right cannot be converted into a crime." Miller v. U.S. 230 F 486 at 489

"Where rights as secured by the Constitution are involved, there can be no rule making or legislation which will abrogate them." Miranda v. Ariz., 384 U.S. 436 at 491 (1966).

Offline CV67PAT

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Re: Michigan Supreme Court denies CADL leave to appeal
« Reply #27 on: November 24, 2013, 06:39:43 PM »
I don't go to lions games. Why not try it out yourself. I already have a venue that I am working on.
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Offline TheQ

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Michigan Supreme Court denies CADL leave to appeal
« Reply #28 on: November 24, 2013, 07:09:23 PM »

So who is going to OC at a Lions game? Can the NFL ban pistols from a place owned by an "Authority"? Hmm.

Pro-2A lawyers I have spoke to including:

Jim Makowski
Dean Greenblatt
Terry Johnson

All of the opinion that an excellent case would be made, probably a victorious one (for them, not us), by a litigant that was renting or leasing a property that was owned by an authority or other public entity.
I Am Not A Lawyer (nor a gunsmith).

Offline drtodd

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Re: Re: Michigan Supreme Court denies CADL leave to appeal
« Reply #29 on: November 24, 2013, 07:16:58 PM »
I don't go to lions games. Why not try it out yourself. I already have a venue that I am working on.

I wasn't really referring to you specifically... so it's open to anyone who likes football. I don't like football nor do I go to venues with large crowds: malls on weekends, Black Friday shopping, etc.

I OC the rare times I go to crowded places that are also PFZs: no one said anything to me at the Van Andel Arena to watch an Ozzie concert. I even had to empty my pockets and have them pat me down. Pistol in holster was there, security didn't even ask me about it. There's nowhere I'd really care to go that I haven't already carried OC
"The claim and exercise of a constitutional right cannot be converted into a crime." Miller v. U.S. 230 F 486 at 489

"Where rights as secured by the Constitution are involved, there can be no rule making or legislation which will abrogate them." Miranda v. Ariz., 384 U.S. 436 at 491 (1966).

Offline CV67PAT

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Re: Michigan Supreme Court denies CADL leave to appeal
« Reply #30 on: November 24, 2013, 08:43:14 PM »
I wasn't really referring to you specifically... so it's open to anyone who likes football. I don't like football nor do I go to venues with large crowds: malls on weekends, Black Friday shopping, etc.

I OC the rare times I go to crowded places that are also PFZs: no one said anything to me at the Van Andel Arena to watch an Ozzie concert. I even had to empty my pockets and have them pat me down. Pistol in holster was there, security didn't even ask me about it. There's nowhere I'd really care to go that I haven't already carried OC

I thought that since you quoted my post you were directing you remark towards me.
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Offline CV67PAT

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Re: Michigan Supreme Court denies CADL leave to appeal
« Reply #31 on: November 24, 2013, 08:49:08 PM »
Pro-2A lawyers I have spoke to including:

Jim Makowski
Dean Greenblatt
Terry Johnson

All of the opinion that an excellent case would be made, probably a victorious one (for them, not us), by a litigant that was renting or leasing a property that was owned by an authority or other public entity.
How then did A,B, & E become required to alter their policy? Private enterprise on local unit of government property.

So can the reverse be possible too then. An authority renting/leasing private property could prohibit firearms because the landlord does?
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Offline gryphon

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Re: Re: Michigan Supreme Court denies CADL leave to appeal
« Reply #32 on: November 24, 2013, 11:10:51 PM »
no one said anything to me at the Van Andel Arena to watch an Ozzie concert. I even had to empty my pockets and have them pat me down. Pistol in holster was there, security didn't even ask me about it.

You OCed to a concert and that was okay, but you still had to empty your pockets?  What the heck were they looking for in people's pockets that were against their rules?

Offline CV67PAT

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Re: Michigan Supreme Court denies CADL leave to appeal
« Reply #33 on: November 24, 2013, 11:32:12 PM »
You OCed to a concert and that was okay, but you still had to empty your pockets?  What the heck were they looking for in people's pockets that were against their rules?
food and alcohol.
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Offline TheQ

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Michigan Supreme Court denies CADL leave to appeal
« Reply #34 on: November 24, 2013, 11:44:05 PM »

How then did A,B, & E become required to alter their policy? Private enterprise on local unit of government property.

So can the reverse be possible too then. An authority renting/leasing private property could prohibit firearms because the landlord does?

ABE changed their policy because we pressured them in the press -- no litigation.
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Offline drtodd

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Re: Re: Michigan Supreme Court denies CADL leave to appeal
« Reply #35 on: November 25, 2013, 06:50:48 AM »
"The claim and exercise of a constitutional right cannot be converted into a crime." Miller v. U.S. 230 F 486 at 489

"Where rights as secured by the Constitution are involved, there can be no rule making or legislation which will abrogate them." Miranda v. Ariz., 384 U.S. 436 at 491 (1966).

Offline METL

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Re: Michigan Supreme Court denies CADL leave to appeal
« Reply #36 on: November 25, 2013, 12:14:40 PM »
Pro-2A lawyers I have spoke to including:

Jim Makowski
Dean Greenblatt
Terry Johnson

All of the opinion that an excellent case would be made, probably a victorious one (for them, not us), by a litigant that was renting or leasing a property that was owned by an authority or other public entity.


So what you're saying is that if the facilities are leased/rented, then the rules change?   City owned property, leased to whom ever, then can have rules in violation of pre-emption?

Offline TheQ

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Re: Michigan Supreme Court denies CADL leave to appeal
« Reply #37 on: November 25, 2013, 12:20:09 PM »

So what you're saying is that if the facilities are leased/rented, then the rules change?   City owned property, leased to whom ever, then can have rules in violation of pre-emption?

Provided the leasing entity is the one that made the rule, yes -- that is the opinion of those 3 lawyers.
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Offline part deux

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Re: Michigan Supreme Court denies CADL leave to appeal
« Reply #38 on: November 25, 2013, 12:55:39 PM »
Does AB&E "lease" the city streets?  Trying to recall the Belleville Strawberry Festival, and how they close mainstreet for a weekend every June.  IRC, it wasn't a lease, but an agreement they could use the street, and money was provided to cover police dept overtime.

Can city streets be leased?

Offline TheQ

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Re: Michigan Supreme Court denies CADL leave to appeal
« Reply #39 on: November 25, 2013, 12:57:13 PM »
Does AB&E "lease" the city streets?  Trying to recall the Belleville Strawberry Festival, and how they close mainstreet for a weekend every June.  IRC, it wasn't a lease, but an agreement they could use the street, and money was provided to cover police dept overtime.

Can city streets be leased?

Great questions for a lawyer.

If special/exclusive use privileges were granted and money changed hands, I'd say it's a lease.
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