Author Topic: GR Hospital OC experience (Read 20983 times)

fsr402 · « **on:** November 23, 2013, 08:25:04 AM »

OC'ed at the Butterworth hospital last night in GR. Didn't go as well as I had hoped. Lol. I have a valid CPL and was full OC so I was legal and there was no signage stating that I couldn't.

Walked in, stopped at an information desk to get my parking validated and ask for my father's room number. Being I didn't know what elevator to take a cute early 20 something girl lead me through the building so I would not get lost. Got to the room without any issues and no strange looks. Was there about 10 minutes when two security guards came in wanting to talk to me.
I stepped into the hall and instantly one of them tries to remove the gun. He tugged on it twice but due to it being a retention holster he failed. He then asked me to remove it for him. I sad "no it's perfectly safe right where it is. "
He then starting telling me it was illegal to have that there and I quickly explained to him the way the laws are written I am legal to carry openly because I have a valid cpl. He then tells me "well our policy says that you can't". I say "now you are talking something different. I know this is not a state owned hospital and it's privately owned so property owner rights trump state law and if you ask me to leave I have to. So if that is what you are doing then I will lock it up in my vehicle and return". They were happy with that and walked with me to make sure I did.
They were polite and other than the guy trying a gun grab it was not a big deal.
On the walk out and back in we talked about guns, holsters, the need for people to carry and the training they should have when they do carry.
They also said "don't think you are the first person we have had to do this to we even get panic calls for empty holsters". One of them gave me his card and said that if anyone gave me troubles about the holster to show them the card and that it was fine.

LD · « **Reply #1 on:** November 23, 2013, 08:33:36 AM »

Quote from: fsr402 on November 23, 2013, 08:25:04 AM

OC'ed at the Butterworth hospital last night. Didn't go as well as I had hoped. Lol. I have a valid CPL and wsd full OC so I was legal and there was no signage stating that I couldn't.

Walked in, stopped at an information desk to get my parking validated and ask for my father's room number. Being I didn't know what elevator to take a cute early 20 something girl lead me through the building so I would not get lost. Got tothe room without any issues and no strange looks. Was there about 10 minutes when two security guards came in wanting to talk to me.
I stepped into the hall and instantly one of them tries to remove the gun. He tugged on it twice but due to it being a retention holster he failed. He then asked me to remove it for him. I sad "no it's perfectly safe right where it is. "
He then starting telling me it was illegal to have that there and I quickly explained to him the way the laws are written I am legal to carry openly because I have a valid cpl. He then tells me "well our policy says that you can't". I say "now you are talking something different. I know this is not a state owned hospital and it's privately owned so property owner rights trump state law and if you ask me to leave I have to. So if that is what you are doing then I will lock it up in my vehicle and return". They were happy with that and walked with me to make sure I did.
They were polite and other than the guy trying a gun grab it was nit a big deal.
On the walk out and back in we talked about guns, holsters, the need for people to carry and the training they should have when they do carry.
They also said "don't think you are the first person we have had to do this to we even get panic calls fir empty holsters". One of them gave me his card and said that if anyone gave me troubles about the holster to show them the card and that it was fine.

Wonder how that would have worked if they did take your gun & YOU called the police to report a stolen firearm?

They said you weren't the first they did that to? Wonder if the one grabbing the gun has a CPL ?
If not, how do they feel about security breaking state law?

Pond Scum · « **Reply #2 on:** November 23, 2013, 08:39:16 AM »

That guy trying to remove your gun is one of the most dangerous things he could have done. It could have led to an accidental discharge or broken bones. He needs some education.

fsr402 · « **Reply #3 on:** November 23, 2013, 09:09:47 AM »

They were both ex-cops. The gun grabber was telling me how his cpl allows him to CC in PFZ's and yet he's also not allowed to carry in the hospital.

Typical cop thinking they have the right to take your gun "for safety". We all know the safest place is right there in the holster.

Maybe I should write an email to his supervisor.

FASBOLD · « **Reply #4 on:** November 23, 2013, 02:01:02 PM »

Quote

I stepped into the hall and instantly one of them tries to remove the gun.

WOW, just wow.

They need two kinds of training.

Training in the rules of firearm safety first, and then training on how to handle people who are minding their own business and treat them as law abiding nice people until they prove otherwise.

Grabbing your gun is assault, besides being incredibly dangerous.

Were they armed?

Pond Scum · « **Reply #5 on:** November 23, 2013, 02:23:42 PM »

Quote from: fsr402 on November 23, 2013, 09:09:47 AM

Maybe I should write an email to his supervisor.

Absolutely! I strongly encourage you to alert hospital management. Those guys need some remedial training. Can you imagine the liability of the hospital if the gun had gone off?? AND hurt someone? Of course they would probably try and blame it on you but the blame is clearly on the security guard.

hevymetal · « **Reply #6 on:** November 23, 2013, 02:30:49 PM »

Quote from: FASBOLD on November 23, 2013, 02:01:02 PM

WOW, just wow.

They need two kinds of training.

Training in the rules of firearm safety first, and then training on how to handle people who are minding their own business and treat them as law abiding nice people until they prove otherwise.

Grabbing your gun is assault, besides being incredibly dangerous.

Agreed, I would file a formal complaint against the guard who attempted to grab your firearm. If their attempt to grab your firearm would have discharged it, then what? They are lucky their ignorance didn't lead to an injury or worse a death.

Bad professionalism and VERY DANGEROUS to grab someone's firearm. The situation could have been handled MUCH better then it was. A complaint to their boss may invoke the training they seem to be in desperate need of.

JMHO
Hevy

CV67PAT · « **Reply #7 on:** November 23, 2013, 02:54:54 PM »

Quote from: Pond Scum on November 23, 2013, 08:39:16 AM

That guy trying to remove your gun is one of the most dangerous things he could have done. It could have led to an accidental discharge or broken bones. He needs some education.

Or worse... Getting shot and killed. Going for ones gun places that person in fear for their life.

Pond Scum · « **Reply #8 on:** November 23, 2013, 04:18:14 PM »

Quote from: CV67PAT on November 23, 2013, 02:54:54 PM

Or worse... Getting shot and killed. Going for ones gun places that person in fear for their life.

In the past I have carried a knife on the weak side for gun grabbing situations.

fozzy71 · « **Reply #9 on:** November 23, 2013, 04:48:54 PM »

Quote from: Pond Scum on November 23, 2013, 04:18:14 PM

In the past I have carried a knife on the weak side for gun grabbing situations.

I prefer to carry a gun on the week side for that scenario.

CV67PAT · « **Reply #10 on:** November 23, 2013, 08:07:46 PM »

Quote from: fozzy71 on November 23, 2013, 04:48:54 PM

I prefer to carry a gun on the week side for that scenario.

And what would you carry on the weekend side?

fozzy71 · « **Reply #11 on:** November 23, 2013, 09:04:20 PM »

Quote from: CV67PAT on November 23, 2013, 08:07:46 PM

And what would you carry on the weekend side?

TheQ · « **Reply #12 on:** November 23, 2013, 10:45:32 PM »

This experience deserves it's own thread.

Jeff · « **Reply #13 on:** November 23, 2013, 11:39:15 PM »

vodka

bigt8261 · « **Reply #14 on:** November 24, 2013, 09:24:51 AM »

I've previously carried into Butterworth without issue. My wife and I were at a doctor's office on the north side of Michigan St. We had to go over to get a few tests done. As we were walking over the bridge, I moved my IWB, to a tight fit OWB but inside my belt and tucked my shirt in. When we got to the other side of the bridge and were waiting for the elevator, the nurse escorting us noticed and kinda had a weird look like 'that wasn't there before'. Everything went fine and no one ever said a thing. Only a few weird looks.

+1 for writing to supervisors.

See post 779 at the bottom of the page for my previous writeup. http://forums.michiganopencarry.org/index.php/topic,12.760.html

casper · « **Reply #15 on:** November 24, 2013, 10:41:17 AM »

Since no one else mentioned it, I will. If they've had to remove people for guns before, should they not have thought to post it on the entrances ? Or do they just want to feel and act like tough guys ? I have a real problem with gun grabbers. Very dangerous !

Shadow Bear · « **Reply #16 on:** November 24, 2013, 11:47:01 AM »

Steel Magnolia has strict instructions to let me die before anyone carries me into Butterworth.

Mando21 · « **Reply #17 on:** November 24, 2013, 04:28:34 PM »

Quote from: Shadow Bear on November 24, 2013, 11:47:01 AM

Steel Magnolia has strict instructions to let me die before anyone carries me into Butterworth.

Because... they don't allow guns inside?

CV67PAT · « **Reply #18 on:** November 24, 2013, 08:52:38 PM »

Quote from: casper on November 24, 2013, 10:41:17 AM

Since no one else mentioned it, I will. If they've had to remove people for guns before, should they not have thought to post it on the entrances ? Or do they just want to feel and act like tough guys ? I have a real problem with gun grabbers. Very dangerous !

I'm not for pointing out the absence of signs. We might start seeing more signs than we care to.

Jeff · « **Reply #19 on:** November 24, 2013, 10:40:46 PM »

What sign? I didn't see any sign. Anywhere..EVER.... wasn't posted in spanish???

fsr402 · « **Reply #20 on:** November 25, 2013, 09:54:52 AM »

Actually I did tell them on the walk out that I looked for any signage that stated I was not allowed to carry. Their answer was " yes they are not big on signs here".

I looked at the business card the one guy gave me and there was no email address. So I'm going to do a little digging and find someone to email. There was a number to call but I would prefer email so as there is a written documentation of the conversation.
Also said to note, the video app I was using on my phone (thought I had recorded the whole thing) got turned off as I was walking in.

casper · « **Reply #21 on:** November 25, 2013, 10:56:23 AM »

Quote from: CV67PAT on November 24, 2013, 08:52:38 PM

I'm not for pointing out the absence of signs. We might start seeing more signs than we care to.

Not the point I was trying to make, but ok.

bigt8261 · « **Reply #22 on:** November 25, 2013, 11:08:22 AM »

The fewer signs there are the more plausible deniability we have. There is a general push to avoid places that try to prohibit firearms, but sometimes that isn't so easy for everyone. In those instances, it's nice to still be able to protect yourself. Not every employee at every location pays attention or even knows the rules, so it's still possible to carry. Hence the difference of my experience.

Also, for non-PFZ's there is still the option of concealing.

part deux · « **Reply #23 on:** November 25, 2013, 12:46:21 PM »

Quote from: fsr402 on November 25, 2013, 09:54:52 AM

Actually I did tell them on the walk out that I looked for any signage that stated I was not allowed to carry. Their answer was " yes they are not big on signs here".

I looked at the business card the one guy gave me and there was no email address. So I'm going to do a little digging and find someone to email. There was a number to call but I would prefer email so as there is a written documentation of the conversation.
Also said to note, the video app I was using on my phone (thought I had recorded the whole thing) got turned off as I was walking in.

I much prefer snail mail

jgillmanjr · « **Reply #24 on:** November 25, 2013, 04:42:30 PM »

Quote from: Pond Scum on November 23, 2013, 08:39:16 AM

That guy trying to remove your gun is one of the most dangerous things he could have done. It could have led to an ~~accidental~~ negligent discharge or broken bones. He needs some education.

Fixed that for you.

Also, I concur that a grab for one of my firearms could (more likely would) result in bad things.

Jeff · « **Reply #25 on:** November 25, 2013, 04:46:32 PM »

Quote from: jgillmanjr on November 25, 2013, 04:42:30 PM

Also, I concur that a grab for one of my firearms could (more likely would) result in bad things.

Indeed.

Shadow Bear · « **Reply #26 on:** November 25, 2013, 08:48:30 PM »

Quote from: Mando21 on November 24, 2013, 04:28:34 PM

Because... they don't allow guns inside?

Their 'emergency room' looks like some cut rate chop shop, with patients on gurneys in the hallway, terrible wait times overall unsanitary looking conditions. I can, however, give Spectrum's Surgical center on East Paris very high marks, based on four procedures there since July of this year. Metro has spoiled me on hospitals, though. Best emergency room in Grand Rapids area.

fsr402 · « **Reply #27 on:** November 26, 2013, 02:01:04 PM »

Quote from: Shadow Bear on November 25, 2013, 08:48:30 PM

Metro has spoiled me on hospitals, though. Best emergency room in Grand Rapids area.

It's also the newest.

CV67PAT · « **Reply #28 on:** November 26, 2013, 02:39:19 PM »

Any response yet?

Shadow Bear · « **Reply #29 on:** November 26, 2013, 06:06:40 PM »

Quote from: fsr402 on November 26, 2013, 02:01:04 PM

It's also the newest.

The old one was great, too. They just moved out to where the busses don't run....

CV67PAT · « **Reply #30 on:** November 26, 2013, 06:20:11 PM »

Quote from: Shadow Bear on November 26, 2013, 06:06:40 PM

The old one was great, too.

There you go again. Always bragging about the old one.

Shadow Bear · « **Reply #31 on:** November 26, 2013, 06:35:05 PM »

Quote from: CV67PAT on November 26, 2013, 06:20:11 PM

There you go again. Always bragging about the old one.

Gotta brag on the old one...they won't give me a new one

CV67PAT · « **Reply #32 on:** November 26, 2013, 10:03:29 PM »

Quote from: Shadow Bear on November 26, 2013, 06:35:05 PM

Gotta brag on the old one...they won't give me a new one

That is so profound.

Shadow Bear · « **Reply #33 on:** November 27, 2013, 02:38:17 PM »

Quote from: CV67PAT on November 26, 2013, 10:03:29 PM

That is so profound.

I have my moments...I know, right?

Too much lead dust in the reloading room...

fsr402 · « **Reply #34 on:** November 27, 2013, 03:22:21 PM »

Quote from: CV67PAT on November 26, 2013, 02:39:19 PM

Any response yet?

I finally got a chance to write something up a few hours ago. I emailed it thru their website as that was the only email I could find.
Now I wait and see if they respond.

News:

Author Topic: GR Hospital OC experience (Read 20983 times)