Author Topic: Lawsuit: Gun owner says Grand Rapids police wrongly detain him for openly carryi (Read 16027 times)

Shadow Bear · « **on:** December 21, 2013, 08:09:45 PM »

I'm stunned that this hasn't been posted here:

GRAND RAPIDS, MI – A man who says he legally carried a pistol in a holster has filed a federal lawsuit against Grand Rapids police after he was forced to the ground at gunpoint and had his firearm temporarily seized.

Johann Deffert of Grand Rapids filed the lawsuit on Friday, Dec. 20, in U.S. District Court in Grand Rapids. He alleges police violated his constitutional rights, assaulted him and falsely imprisoned him.

Deffert is seeking a judgment of $100,000, and an additional $500,000 for punitive and/or exemplary damages, along with costs.

Read more at http://www.mlive.com/news/grand-rapids/index.ssf/2013/12/lawsuit_gun_owner_says_grand_r.html#incart_river_default

Smashfacekrav · « **Reply #1 on:** December 21, 2013, 08:15:25 PM »

I would like to see additional training be mandatory for all agencies as part of the outcome and rewards.

"May God have mercy on my enemies, because I won't."
General George Patton

Xpiatio · « **Reply #2 on:** December 21, 2013, 09:42:01 PM »

Was reading through the comments on the article on mlive. Saw some familiar names. Kudos.

But on a side note: The accusatory comments back and forth from both sides only increase scrutiny to each. Debating never won anyone. We got to reach out in love and explain the reason why we believe what we believe. But don't debate. Give the reasons and let it be at that.

bigt8261 · « **Reply #3 on:** December 21, 2013, 11:20:46 PM »

I have spoken frequently to Mr. Deffert about his case, and have seen the dashcam footage (as I believe Shadow Bear has). I don't see this turning out well for the city.

It's not in the article, but the suit alleges that this is a repeated occurrence and is sponsored by management.

Xpiatio · « **Reply #4 on:** December 22, 2013, 10:19:34 AM »

I was talking about it with my girlfriend last night. We both do not believe that it will come out well for the City. If the incident happened recently, I could only imagine how further demoralizing it was for Deffert, when he was made to lay down on the wet snowy sidewalk. Then be sitting in the back of the cop car with his front cold and wet.

I do wonder if the officer was new to the force or a veteran.

TheQ · « **Reply #5 on:** December 22, 2013, 06:44:17 PM »

Quote from: Xpiatio on December 22, 2013, 10:19:34 AM

I was talking about it with my girlfriend last night. We both do not believe that it will come out well for the City. If the incident happened recently, I could only imagine how further demoralizing it was for Deffert, when he was made to lay down on the wet snowy sidewalk. Then be sitting in the back of the cop car with his front cold and wet.

I do wonder if the officer was new to the force or a veteran.

IIRC, it was last spring.

Raggs · « **Reply #6 on:** December 22, 2013, 08:09:28 PM »

Quote from: Xpiatio on December 22, 2013, 10:19:34 AM

I was talking about it with my girlfriend last night. We both do not believe that it will come out well for the City. If the incident happened recently, I could only imagine how further demoralizing it was for Deffert, when he was made to lay down on the wet snowy sidewalk. Then be sitting in the back of the cop car with his front cold and wet.

I do wonder if the officer was new to the force or a veteran.

From the article "The incident happened around noon on March 3 when Deffert said he was walking on a public sidewalk, openly carrying a holstered pistol, when an officer approached."

bigt8261 · « **Reply #7 on:** December 23, 2013, 10:53:56 AM »

A newly created user called "CityAttorney" has started posting in the comments and has attacked me.

Quote

CityAttorney:
How does Mr. Lambert, who lives and works in the City of Kentwood, know what kind of handgun Mr. Deffert, who lives in the City of Grand Rapids, was carrying at the time?

Quote

Tom Lambert:
If this is the level of investigatory prowess Mr. Deffert will be up against, he should be able to sleep a little better.

I do not work in the city of Kentwood, sorry. If you do a little more reading you will see that I personally know Mr. Deffert.

Just as my city of residence does not preclude me from being affected by the preempted ordinances of Grand Rapids, my place of residence also does not preclude me from knowing and interacting with residents of Grand Rapids.

Is it really wise for you to be posting here, let alone attacking individuals? Is that what taxpayers are paying for? Of course, assuming you really are who you say you are.

http://www.mlive.com/news/grand-rapids/index.ssf/2013/12/lawsuit_gun_owner_says_grand_r.html/post/2013-12-23/1387812391-48-381.html

METL · « **Reply #8 on:** December 23, 2013, 11:34:15 AM »

So what's his MOC username?

bigt8261 · « **Reply #9 on:** December 23, 2013, 11:57:28 AM »

So, if I'm living rent free in their heads, does that mean that I may now claim residency in GR?

Now that I'm thinking about it a bit more, that probably isn't a good idea. They will surely want me to pay their taxes.

Shadow Bear · « **Reply #10 on:** December 23, 2013, 12:10:15 PM »

And now she is posting about where you work....
Lawsuit: Gun owner says Grand Rapids police wrongly detain him for openly carrying pistol
Mr. Lambert works at Great Lakes Computer, headquartered at 5555 Corprate Exchange Court S.E. This is off Patterson near Broadmoor, between 52nd and 60th Street. Check your map. The City of GR boundary line ends at 44th Street in that location.

fsr402 · « **Reply #11 on:** December 23, 2013, 12:11:41 PM »

Quote from: bigt8261 on December 23, 2013, 10:53:56 AM

A newly created user called "CityAttorney" has started posting in the comments and has attacked me.

http://www.mlive.com/news/grand-rapids/index.ssf/2013/12/lawsuit_gun_owner_says_grand_r.html/post/2013-12-23/1387812391-48-381.html

Oh snap

bigt8261 · « **Reply #12 on:** December 23, 2013, 12:26:00 PM »

I've taken a screen shot and Mlive will have the IP info for the user.

Should this user turn out to actually be from the city, and the city tries something with me, Mr. Deffert's case will look like peanuts in comparison.

It's not everyday you are truly targeted by government. Assuming this user is why they say they are.

bigt8261 · « **Reply #13 on:** December 23, 2013, 04:32:43 PM »

another article:

http://www.mlive.com/news/grand-rapids/index.ssf/2013/12/grand_rapids_police_respond_ma.html#incart_2box

FASBOLD · « **Reply #14 on:** December 23, 2013, 04:47:35 PM »

Interesting that the author of this article is commenting and does not know if there is any dashcam footage, he's not reading Tom's comments that he has seen the dashcam video.

Will be interesting to see how this plays out.

gryphon · « **Reply #15 on:** December 23, 2013, 06:44:08 PM »

Quote

standing outside of a church service talking loudly to himself

Huh?

bigt8261 · « **Reply #16 on:** December 23, 2013, 07:09:58 PM »

Quote from: gryphon on December 23, 2013, 06:44:08 PM

Huh?

Try none of the above as the video from the dashcam clearly shows. The plaintiff was walking down the street on the other side of the road, and only came to a halt when he was detained.

Xpiatio · « **Reply #17 on:** December 23, 2013, 07:22:50 PM »

Just be patient, I'm pretty sure things will be handled out right. No sense in making assumptions based on here say from third party commenters on mlive and woodtv

LD · « **Reply #18 on:** December 23, 2013, 07:29:43 PM »

Quote from: bigt8261 on December 23, 2013, 07:09:58 PM

Try none of the above as the video from the dashcam clearly shows. The plaintiff was walking down the street on the other side of the road, and only came to a halt when he was detained.

Too bad the prosecutor hasn't seen the same video you have.
Or is it just that the police never embellish to justify their stories?
As a prosecutor I would think she would know that police lie all the time to get the results they want.
It's an investigative tool.

Oh well.... It should come out at trial.
(If he gets one)

bigt8261 · « **Reply #19 on:** December 23, 2013, 07:58:31 PM »

Quote from: LD on December 23, 2013, 07:29:43 PM

Too bad the prosecutor hasn't seen the same video you have.
Or is it just that the police never embellish to justify their stories?
As a prosecutor I would think she would know that police lie all the time to get the results they want.
It's an investigative tool.

Oh well.... It should come out at trial.
(If he gets one)

I would assume that she didn't take the time (wouldn't be the first time) to fully review the case and watch the video. I also do not believe this mattered. It seems the CA's comments were more designed to smear the plaintiff. You will know how wrong she was if they offer a settlement.

gryphon · « **Reply #20 on:** December 23, 2013, 11:06:10 PM »

Quote from: bigt8261 on December 23, 2013, 07:09:58 PM

Try none of the above as the video from the dashcam clearly shows. The plaintiff was walking down the street on the other side of the road, and only came to a halt when he was detained.

So more evidence of police lying. I assume Dulan has a copy of Moe's police report testilying about this.

bigt8261 · « **Reply #21 on:** December 24, 2013, 12:08:21 AM »

I'm sure he does, but that doesn't mater too much as the video tells the story pretty well. If anything, an inaccurate report will probably help the plaintiff.

LD · « **Reply #22 on:** December 24, 2013, 07:04:23 AM »

Quote from: gryphon on December 23, 2013, 11:06:10 PM

So more evidence of police lying. I assume Dulan has a copy of Moe's police report testilying about this.

Isn't it against the law to file a false police report?

If this officer lied on an official report wouldn't the prosecutor have him arrested & charge him?

bigt8261 · « **Reply #23 on:** December 24, 2013, 09:26:15 AM »

Quote from: LD on December 24, 2013, 07:04:23 AM

Isn't it against the law to file a false police report?

If this officer lied on an official report wouldn't the prosecutor have him arrested & charge him?

There is a difference between a "false" police report and a "mistaken" police report. I cannot say which one it is, but I'm willing to bet on how the CA views it.

Jeff · « **Reply #24 on:** December 24, 2013, 04:44:27 PM »

He was just misremembering. It's a common thing these days.

Shadow Bear · « **Reply #25 on:** December 24, 2013, 05:31:57 PM »

Quote from: LD on December 24, 2013, 07:04:23 AM

Isn't it against the law to file a false police report?

If this officer lied on an official report wouldn't the prosecutor have him arrested & charge him?

That would seem appropriate; however, a double standard exists.

Xpiatio · « **Reply #26 on:** December 24, 2013, 08:32:23 PM »

some one linked the court case document on OCDO.

for your reading pleasure Deffert Complaint

fsr402 · « **Reply #27 on:** January 03, 2014, 06:51:00 AM »

This is making it around the interwebs.
Just found it on Cop Block.

http://networkedblogs.com/Sw5UD

bigt8261 · « **Reply #28 on:** January 03, 2014, 08:24:53 AM »

Looks like I forgot to come back here and mention that I'm compiling all of the relevant information in the Documented Government Abuse section here: http://forums.michiganopencarry.org/index.php/topic,3581.0.html

News:

Author Topic: Lawsuit: Gun owner says Grand Rapids police wrongly detain him for openly carryi (Read 16027 times)