Open Carry Specific > OC Questions
Question about LEO packet
TheQ:
--- Quote from: autosurgeon on July 02, 2010, 10:41:54 AM ---Reserve officers are just folks like you and me. They are NOT MCOLS certified and in most cases have no more powers than you or I except when they are working as the steed of a certified officer (have been sworn for a certain period to work as an extension of that officer)
Therefor any AG opinion that applies to non certified officers applies to you and I!
--- End quote ---
Has there been any case-law supporting this interpretation? Can anyone cite a case that a judge has upheld that this AG opinion (which was written with a reserve officer as the subject) applies to every citizen?
I'm challenging the veracity of the statement "Therefor any AG opinion that applies to non certified officers applies to you and I!". If this were Wikipedia, I'd put the [citation needed] template after it.
venator:
--- Quote from: TheQ on July 02, 2010, 01:42:03 AM ---All,
I am new to owning a handgun. I just picked up my first, a Springfield XDm 9mm on July 1, 2010.
I was reading your LEO packet. It says:
Brandishing and disturbing the peace are not an offense while lawfully openly carrying a firearm (3). Attorney General Opinion 7101, 2/02 states “…by carrying a handgun in a holster that is in plain view, does not violate section 234e of the Michigan Penal Code, which prohibits brandishing a firearm in public.” In regards to disorderly conduct, due to the nature of this code, officers have cited this law in order to suppress or discourage lawful open carry. Since a person who is not licensed to carry concealed MUST open carry their firearms on foot in order to avoid criminal charge, (nor is there any duty for anyone licensed to conceal their handgun), open carry is not disorderly conduct. The open carrying of a firearm is not by itself threatening, nor does it cause a hazardous or physically offensive condition.
I'm sure anyone who has read AG Opinion 7101 knows the Opinion was based on a question about "Reserve Officers" carrying a firearm in a holster. I don't know about you, but I am not a reserve officer. How has the wording "Reserve Officer" been construed to mean "any Michigan resident who legally owns their handgun"?
Can anyone provide any references to legal cases where this interpretation of AG Opinion 7101 has been tested?
Thank you for helping me understand better.
"Q"
--- End quote ---
If you read the opinion closely the basic question is about a researve officer, but the opinion would apply to any person. The AG looked at the definition of brandishing and applies it to a reserve officer and by extension to anyone that can lawfully possess a handgun.
BRANDISHING Opinion No. 7101 February 6, 2002: …In the absence of any reported Michigan appellate court decisions defining "brandishing," it is appropriate to rely upon dictionary definitions…..the term brandishing is defined as: "1. To wave or flourish menacingly, as a weapon. 2. To display ostentatiously. A menacing or defiant wave or flourish." This definition comports with the meaning ascribed to this term by courts of other jurisdictions…the court recognized that in federal sentencing guidelines, "brandishing" a weapon is defined to mean "that the weapon was pointed or waved about, or displayed in a threatening manner." Applying these definitions to your question, it is clear that a reserve police officer, regardless whether he or she qualifies as a "peace officer," when carrying a handgun in a holster in plain view, is not waving or displaying the firearm in a threatening manner. Thus, such conduct does not constitute brandishing a firearm in violation of section 234e of the Michigan Penal Code. It is my opinion, therefore, that…by carrying a handgun in a holster that is in plain view, does not violate section 234e of the Michigan Penal Code, which prohibits brandishing a firearm in public.
venator:
--- Quote from: TheQ on July 03, 2010, 01:16:38 PM ---
--- Quote from: autosurgeon on July 02, 2010, 10:41:54 AM ---Reserve officers are just folks like you and me. They are NOT MCOLS certified and in most cases have no more powers than you or I except when they are working as the steed of a certified officer (have been sworn for a certain period to work as an extension of that officer)
Therefor any AG opinion that applies to non certified officers applies to you and I!
--- End quote ---
Has there been any case-law supporting this interpretation? Can anyone cite a case that a judge has upheld that this AG opinion (which was written with a reserve officer as the subject) applies to every citizen?
I'm challenging the veracity of the statement "Therefor any AG opinion that applies to non certified officers applies to you and I!". If this were Wikipedia, I'd put the [citation needed] template after it.
--- End quote ---
I would guess that if OC was brandishing then hundreds of us would have been charged by now. Some departments are looking for any reason to arrest OCers so I would think they have looked at this one first.
Of the thousands of hours people that have been OCing in Michigan over the last three years I would think at least one would have been charged with this. To date none have. You can interpret the opinion all you want and it's good you are careful, but there is nothing like real world data.
I doubt, under the current definition of brandishing you would get a conviction let alone a charge just for OCing a gun in a holster. Possible, but highly improbable.
Evil Creamsicle:
--- Quote from: TheQ on July 03, 2010, 01:16:38 PM ---
--- Quote from: autosurgeon on July 02, 2010, 10:41:54 AM ---Reserve officers are just folks like you and me. They are NOT MCOLS certified and in most cases have no more powers than you or I except when they are working as the steed of a certified officer (have been sworn for a certain period to work as an extension of that officer)
Therefor any AG opinion that applies to non certified officers applies to you and I!
--- End quote ---
Has there been any case-law supporting this interpretation? Can anyone cite a case that a judge has upheld that this AG opinion (which was written with a reserve officer as the subject) applies to every citizen?
I'm challenging the veracity of the statement "Therefor any AG opinion that applies to non certified officers applies to you and I!". If this were Wikipedia, I'd put the [citation needed] template after it.
--- End quote ---
You aren't asking the right question. The question to consider is, what makes a reserve police officer different from you? Or a volunteer firefighter? Your answer should be 'nothing'. That includes this opinion. Its not really a matter of interpretation
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