Author Topic: Got busted on the motorcycle  (Read 34872 times)

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Offline wardog6t

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Re: Got busted on the motorcycle
« Reply #20 on: July 06, 2010, 04:02:48 PM »
After further review. I have know knowledge nor can find any case law in regards to OC on a motorcycle. In fact the officer could make a stop do to the fact that there is no case law. As he had reasonable suspision as to if you had a cpl.
"Any day you don't hear a "POP" and "WHIZ" is a Wonderful day....."

Offline Agent1

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Re: Got busted on the motorcycle
« Reply #21 on: July 06, 2010, 04:06:44 PM »
Horse$#!^......No law on the books......NO LAW BROKEN! This is something that is open to interpritation by every do-gooder that holds a public office and hold there own agenda!
"It isn't always being fast or even accurate that counts. It's being willing. I found out early that most men, regardless of cause or need, arn't willing. They blink an eye or draw a breath before they pull the trigger. I won't."
 John Wayne (The Shootist.)

Offline kyleplusitunes

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Re: Got busted on the motorcycle
« Reply #22 on: July 06, 2010, 04:08:24 PM »
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« Last Edit: July 06, 2010, 04:10:20 PM by kyleplusitunes »

Offline chaneyd

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Re: Got busted on the motorcycle
« Reply #23 on: July 06, 2010, 04:09:27 PM »
After further review. I have know knowledge nor can find any case law in regards to OC on a motorcycle. In fact the officer could make a stop do to the fact that there is no case law. As he had reasonable suspision as to if you had a cpl.

But I disagree that 'reasonable suspicion' is in play merely for OC on a bike. Just the opposite. If I were a police officer I would NOT think that a crime was about to be committed or had been committed which is what reasonable suspicion must have. I would suspect the biker HAD a permit. Even OC on a bike is a gray area.

Offline wardog6t

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Re: Got busted on the motorcycle
« Reply #24 on: July 06, 2010, 04:13:15 PM »
After further review. I have know knowledge nor can find any case law in regards to OC on a motorcycle. In fact the officer could make a stop do to the fact that there is no case law. As he had reasonable suspision as to if you had a cpl.

As his suspision could have been wether you were commiting a 5 year felony of CCW.
"Any day you don't hear a "POP" and "WHIZ" is a Wonderful day....."

Offline chaneyd

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Re: Got busted on the motorcycle
« Reply #25 on: July 06, 2010, 04:16:00 PM »
After further review. I have know knowledge nor can find any case law in regards to OC on a motorcycle. In fact the officer could make a stop do to the fact that there is no case law. As he had reasonable suspision as to if you had a cpl.

As his suspision could have been wether you were commiting a 5 year felony of CCW.

I disagree with the notion a crime is being committed merely by OC'ing on a bike. Do you stop someone to check if they have a license to drive their car? Is that reasonable suspicion?

Offline wardog6t

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Re: Got busted on the motorcycle
« Reply #26 on: July 06, 2010, 04:24:53 PM »
Cite any cases specifically saying an officer seeing someone carry a pistol on a motorcycle doesn't have reasonable suspicion to stop and check to see if they have a CPL?   
"Any day you don't hear a "POP" and "WHIZ" is a Wonderful day....."

Offline chaneyd

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Re: Got busted on the motorcycle
« Reply #27 on: July 06, 2010, 04:49:45 PM »
Back at you. Cite one that does. OC on a bike should be treated no different than OC on foot.

Offline wardog6t

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Re: Got busted on the motorcycle
« Reply #28 on: July 06, 2010, 04:53:01 PM »
A motorcycle is a motor vehicle. Therefore if the weapon is loaded, on your person you are required to have a cpl.
"Any day you don't hear a "POP" and "WHIZ" is a Wonderful day....."

Offline chaneyd

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Re: Got busted on the motorcycle
« Reply #29 on: July 06, 2010, 04:56:48 PM »
Understood. But not detained for over an hour because of it. That no longer is a Terry Stop. That's pure harrassment.

Offline wardog6t

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Re: Got busted on the motorcycle
« Reply #30 on: July 06, 2010, 05:06:42 PM »
Agreed. Hopefully the recent emails to the chief and attorney will induce retraining. As the city attorney has replied to me in regards to the OC packet and was very thankful.
"Any day you don't hear a "POP" and "WHIZ" is a Wonderful day....."

Offline autosurgeon

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Re: Got busted on the motorcycle
« Reply #31 on: July 06, 2010, 05:34:01 PM »
They already have had several packets sent to them and even hand delivered. They claim ignorance when we know otherwise.

Mastiff has had issues with them before and they got themselves into a peck of trouble back in the winter when we had the OC march in BC. The problem is they feel they can stop anyone they see OCing in their city. However just because they don't know if you are licensed does NOT give them RAS to stop you and find out if you are.

You MUST disclose when OCing on a motorcycle if stopped however as you are doing so under the legal cover of your CPL.
Anything I post may be my opinion and not the law... you are responsible to do your own verification.

Blackstone (1753-1765) maintains that "the law holds that it is better that ten guilty persons escape than that one innocent suffer."

Offline TheQ

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Re: Got busted on the motorcycle
« Reply #32 on: July 06, 2010, 08:08:50 PM »
No criminal charges. Just harrassment by the police and a misunderstanding of OC laws by the city attorney.

I wasn't sure if you had done things like informed the Officer you have a CPL first thing when he approached you.  Since you were carrying on the motor vehicle, as someone said earlier the question as to whether it was technically opened or concealed is a legal gray area at best.

In the mean time, I look forward to haring how this turns out.
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Offline chaneyd

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Re: Got busted on the motorcycle
« Reply #33 on: July 06, 2010, 10:32:30 PM »
They already have had several packets sent to them and even hand delivered. They claim ignorance when we know otherwise.

Mastiff has had issues with them before and they got themselves into a peck of trouble back in the winter when we had the OC march in BC. The problem is they feel they can stop anyone they see OCing in their city. However just because they don't know if you are licensed does NOT give them RAS to stop you and find out if you are.

You MUST disclose when OCing on a motorcycle if stopped however as you are doing so under the legal cover of your CPL.

Mastiff and I both were at the City commission meeting tonight and voiced our issues with them. I hope they will listen. I had 2 commissioners come up to me after the meeting and apologized for the way the police acted. That was nice. Hopefully something will come of it.

Offline autosurgeon

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Re: Got busted on the motorcycle
« Reply #34 on: July 06, 2010, 10:44:18 PM »
Good work guys!!
Anything I post may be my opinion and not the law... you are responsible to do your own verification.

Blackstone (1753-1765) maintains that "the law holds that it is better that ten guilty persons escape than that one innocent suffer."

Offline JoeCar

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Re: Got busted on the motorcycle
« Reply #35 on: July 09, 2010, 09:08:03 AM »
A vehicle (Latin: vehiculum) is a device that is designed or used to transport people or cargo. Most often vehicles are manufactured (e.g. bicycles, cars, motorcycles, trains, ships, boats, and aircraft).[1]
Vehicles may be propelled or pulled by engines or animals including humans, for instance, a chariot, a stagecoach, a mule-drawn barge, an ox-cart or rickshaw. However, animals on their own, though used as a means of transport, are not called vehicles, but rather beasts of burden or draft animals. This distinction includes humans carrying another human, for example a child or a disabled person. Means of transport without a vehicle or animal would include walking, running, crawling, or swimming.
Vehicles that do not travel on land often are called craft, such as watercraft, sailcraft, aircraft, hovercraft, and spacecraft
Land vehicles are classified broadly by what is used to apply steering and drive forces against the ground: wheeled, tracked, railed, or skied.     

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Offline JoeCar

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Re: Got busted on the motorcycle
« Reply #36 on: July 09, 2010, 09:18:16 AM »
28.425c License; form; authorized conduct.

Sec. 5c.

(1) A license to carry a concealed pistol shall be in a form, with the same dimensions as a Michigan operator license, prescribed by the department of state police. The license shall contain all of the following:

(a) The licensee's full name and date of birth.

(b) A photograph and a physical description of the licensee.

(c) A statement of the effective dates of the license.

(d) An indication of exceptions authorized by this act applicable to the licensee.

(e) An indication whether the license is a duplicate.

(2) Subject to section 5o and except as otherwise provided by law, a license to carry a concealed pistol issued by the county concealed weapon licensing board authorizes the licensee to do all of the following:

(a) Carry a pistol concealed on or about his or her person anywhere in this state.

(b) Carry a pistol in a vehicle, whether concealed or not concealed, anywhere in this state.


Offline Evil Creamsicle

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Re: Got busted on the motorcycle
« Reply #37 on: July 09, 2010, 10:54:36 AM »
A motorcycle is a motor vehicle. Therefore if the weapon is loaded, on your person you are required to have a cpl.

Just a question for you, with no hostility intended:

Would you, by that logic, say that a cop who sees a person printing should be able to stop them to see if they have a cpl?
Once armed, a free man can never be disarmed. Only defeated.

Offline chaneyd

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Re: Got busted on the motorcycle
« Reply #38 on: July 09, 2010, 11:29:55 AM »
There are police out there that will stop if they suspect CC even though law forbids it.

Offline Evil Creamsicle

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Re: Got busted on the motorcycle
« Reply #39 on: July 09, 2010, 11:35:40 AM »
There are police out there that will stop if they suspect CC even though law forbids it.

I know and its not a practice I agree with, I'm just trying to better understand wardogs position.
Once armed, a free man can never be disarmed. Only defeated.