CPL OC in a PFZ

[SD40VE]

i know it can be done. ive heard stories of people in schools and what not. im just wondering if someone can quote the laws concerning CPL licensee's who OC in a PFZ assuming there are not any "no guns" signs

me and a good friend and his wife who all have completed the cpl class (awaiting macomb gun board appearance" had a debate about this, apparently the cpl instructor said they cant go in the pfz with a pistol at all, concealed or not. i let them know thats not the case. looking for some laws that pertain to this. not including update 86. we read that and i semi won the argument at that point.

[CV67PAT]

i know it can be done. ive heard stories of people in schools and what not. im just wondering if someone can quote the laws concerning CPL licensee's who OC in a PFZ assuming there are not any "no guns" signs

me and a good friend and his wife who all have completed the cpl class (awaiting macomb gun board appearance" had a debate about this, apparently the cpl instructor said they cant go in the pfz with a pistol at all, concealed or not. i let them know thats not the case. looking for some laws that pertain to this. not including update 86. we read that and i semi won the argument at that point.

Here's the two relative statutes. These are the foundation upon which cPFZ OC is based. They are discussed in detail at the Michigan Open Carry Seminars held locally. Check the forum events section to find out about one of these informative seminars in your area.

MCL 28.425o
http://www.legislature.mi.gov/(S(vidajy45mwvpgvboqggcel55))/documents/mcl/pdf/mcl-28-425o.pdf

MCL 750.234d
http://www.legislature.mi.gov/(S(vidajy45mwvpgvboqggcel55))/documents/mcl/pdf/mcl-750-234d.pdf

[TheQ]

i know it can be done. ive heard stories of people in schools and what not. im just wondering if someone can quote the laws concerning CPL licensee's who OC in a PFZ assuming there are not any "no guns" signs

me and a good friend and his wife who all have completed the cpl class (awaiting macomb gun board appearance" had a debate about this, apparently the cpl instructor said they cant go in the pfz with a pistol at all, concealed or not. i let them know thats not the case. looking for some laws that pertain to this. not including update 86. we read that and i semi won the argument at that point.

There is no law that allows it, just no law that prohibits it. MSP legal update 86 talks about how these laws work quite nicely.

Relevant laws:

MCL 750.237a - exempts CPL holders

MCL 28.425o - prohibits concealed carry, but makes no mention of OC.

[TheQ]

Here's the two relative statutes. These are the foundation upon which OC is based. They are discussed in detail at the Michigan Open Carry Seminars held locally. Check the forum events section to find out about one of these informative seminars in your area.

MCL 28.425o
http://www.legislature.mi.gov/(S(vidajy45mwvpgvboqggcel55))/documents/mcl/pdf/mcl-28-425o.pdf

MCL 750.234d
http://www.legislature.mi.gov/(S(vidajy45mwvpgvboqggcel55))/documents/mcl/pdf/mcl-750-234d.pdf

MCL 750.234d doesn't cover schools. MCL 750.237a does.

[gryphon]

assuming there are not any "no guns" signs

While signs do not have the force of law in Michigan (not debating whether they constitute notice here), they would be invalid for public schools and other governmental agencies and authorities.

[CV67PAT]

While signs do not have the force of law in Michigan (not debating whether they constitute notice here), they would be invalid for public schools and other governmental agencies and authorities.

This is due to the Preemption Statute, which is also discussed in detail at the Michigan Open Carry  Seminars.

MCL 123.1102 Regulation of pistols or other firearms.
http://legislature.mi.gov/doc.aspx?mcl-123-1102

[SD40VE]

i have been to a seminar lol. i was just drawing a blank on the MCL statutes. thanks for the replies

[CV67PAT]

i have been to a seminar lol. i was just drawing a blank on the MCL statutes. thanks for the replies

Your friend needs the seminar.

[TheQ]

Your friend needs the seminar.

+1

[karudin]

It would be interesting to see some of this information discussed in classes for the CPL rather than the instructors trying to make it seem like you can no longer OC or OC is evil. CPL classes aren't only good for those that want to conceal but as most MOC leadership will advise, OC'ers should get their CPL. Sorry not trying to hijack thread. I've run into a lot more CC'ers lately that are starting to get interested with OC with everything that is going on in Conn. I had a 30 min conversation with 2 guys in Walmart one day.

[TheQ]

It would be interesting to see some of this information discussed in classes for the CPL rather than the instructors trying to make it seem like you can no longer OC or OC is evil. CPL classes aren't only good for those that want to conceal but as most MOC leadership will advise, OC'ers should get their CPL. Sorry not trying to hijack thread. I've run into a lot more CC'ers lately that are starting to get interested with OC with everything that is going on in Conn. I had a 30 min conversation with 2 guys in Walmart one day.

If only instructors cared about hanging out correct info. The NRA has a serious quality management problem with their certified instructors.

[SteveS]

It would be interesting to see some of this information discussed in classes for the CPL rather than the instructors trying to make it seem like you can no longer OC or OC is evil. CPL classes aren't only good for those that want to conceal but as most MOC leadership will advise, OC'ers should get their CPL. Sorry not trying to hijack thread. I've run into a lot more CC'ers lately that are starting to get interested with OC with everything that is going on in Conn. I had a 30 min conversation with 2 guys in Walmart one day.

There are hundreds of instructors in this state, so I don't think you can lump them all together with the idiots.  The reality is that the bad ones tend to get the most attention.  As for the NRA being responsible, they need to make sure the instructors are teaching the curriculum.  The person giving the legal part (cop or lawyer) is the only one that should be discussing what is legal and what is not.  If they are giving bad info, then the instructor should not be asking them back and doing a better job of hiring.

[SD40VE]

If only instructors cared about hanging out correct info. The NRA has a serious quality management problem with their certified instructors.

the guy who did my friends wife's cpl class is NRA certified, she had a little clear NRA document evelope lol.

i was like your instructor is a moron and biased against OC.

[CV67PAT]

the guy who did my friends wife's cpl class is NRA certified, she had a little clear NRA document evelope lol.

i was like your instructor is a moron and biased against OC.

That's a "FUDD"

[part deux]

Steve,

I interviewed a bunch of CPL instructors for my father in laws course.  I had a series of questions, most related to OC.  Not one got past the 3rd question with a correct answer.

I sent my daughter to Rick's class, and he seemed to do a good job.

[LD]

If only instructors cared about hanging out correct info. The NRA has a serious quality management problem with their certified instructors.

From what I have seen, the NRA is generally against open carry. I wouldn't expect them to chastize an instructor for discouraging it. Misinformation or not.

[CV67PAT]

From what I have seen, the NRA is generally against open carry. I wouldn't expect them to chastize an instructor for discouraging it. Misinformation or not.

The NRA supports our 2nd Amendment rights but...

[karudin]

There are hundreds of instructors in this state, so I don't think you can lump them all together with the idiots.  The reality is that the bad ones tend to get the most attention.  As for the NRA being responsible, they need to make sure the instructors are teaching the curriculum.  The person giving the legal part (cop or lawyer) is the only one that should be discussing what is legal and what is not.  If they are giving bad info, then the instructor should not be asking them back and doing a better job of hiring.

I'm sure that all instructors don't intend to be deceiving; however, I'm sure most everyone can attest to either attending a class or know someone that attended a class where OC was disregarded even if questions were asked about it or were blatantly lied to about it. Now I'm not saying they have to agree with it, after all it is a conceal carry class; however, to be intentionally or even unintentionally deceptive should not be accepted. Most people are taking the class to learn more about MI's carry laws, who ever is providing the legal portion should be responsible for covering both concealed and open carry in my opinion. I'm sure it would make people even more comfortable about carrying. But that is just my 2 cents.

[Jeff]

Almost everything my CPL instructor taught us was wrong.  And I do mean almost everything.  Not sure how that guy was allowed to teach a class.

[CV67PAT]

Almost everything my CPL instructor taught us was wrong.  And I do mean almost everything.  Not sure how that guy was allowed to teach a class.

No oversight whatsoever.

[TheQ]

No oversight whatsoever.

NRA has a serious quality assurance problem -- wait ....I already said that.

[SteveS]

Steve,

I interviewed a bunch of CPL instructors for my father in laws course.  I had a series of questions, most related to OC.  Not one got past the 3rd question with a correct answer.

I sent my daughter to Rick's class, and he seemed to do a good job.

My point is that there are obviously issues with classes in this state.  Some are very serious, such as instructors selling certificates to people that never take the class.  Some are leaving out significant portions of the material or teaching parts of the class that they are not qualified to teach.  If we are talking about the NRA PPitH class, there isn't anything in the regular part of the class that deals with OC.  That should be covered in the legal section.

[bigt8261]

Almost everything my CPL instructor taught us was wrong.  And I do mean almost everything.  Not sure how that guy was allowed to teach a class.

You may file a complaint with the NRA. PM me if you would like more details on this.