Enforcing the Second Amendment

[gryphon]

What if the Second Amendment had a IIA clause, and a IIB clause? What if the Constitution looked like this?

http://canadafreepress.com/index.php/article/62087

[bigt8261]

It just like adding teeth to preemption. I wish Michigan's preemption had teeth. If only someone were working on that. 

[TheQ]

Here's the problem with this: it requires government elected officials to hold other elected officials accountable. A healthy question to ask when you see a law that says "a public official SHALL":

And if they don't?

[jgillmanjr]

Here's the problem with this: it requires government elected officials to hold other elected officials accountable. A healthy question to ask when you see a law that says "a public official SHALL":

And if they don't?

I've always thought that there should be an independent elected attorney that has the authority to prosecute these kind of things. That way it's not an issue of the county prosecutors "playing nice".

[TheQ]

I've always thought that there should be an independent elected attorney that has the authority to prosecute these kind of things. That way it's not an issue of the county prosecutors "playing nice".

Great -- another elected official. I'm sure THAT will solve the problem. NOT!

Our system was designed such that Congress, The Courts, and the Executive would keep each other in check. How has that worked?

And you think adding someone else to the government payroll will fix it?

[jgillmanjr]

Great -- another elected official. I'm sure THAT will solve the problem. NOT!

Our system was designed such that Congress, The Courts, and the Executive would keep each other in check. How has that worked?

And you think adding someone else to the government payroll will fix it?

Good point. I've got another idea - just need to flesh it out more..

[Michigander]

There is really only one way I know of to reliably hold government agents and elected representatives accountable for their actions, and that is to have extensive polygraph testing at least twice a year, for everyone, period. Routine psych tests seem like a pretty good idea too. Fail either and you're out, no ifs ands or buts. This could be done on a full spectrum, make sure teachers are doing their jobs, cops aren't violating any oaths, law makers aren't treasonously banning guns while feloniously selling them, etc...

Sure, that would unfairly take out some people who would otherwise do a good job, but government jobs are a privilege, not a right.

[TexasSupporter]

I love the idea.  I think its a good analysis of how things have gotten so out of control. 

Here's what I really liked in that article, when it uncovered this gem:

Check out Title 18, USC, Section 241- Conspiracy Against Rights. Here is the important language of this law:
“This statute makes it unlawful for two or more persons to conspire to injure, oppress, threaten, or intimidate any person of any state, territory or district in the free exercise or enjoyment of any right or privilege secured to him/her by the Constitution or the laws of the United States, (or because of his/her having exercised the same). Punishment varies from a fine or imprisonment of up to ten years, or both.”

[TheQ]

There is really only one way I know of to reliably hold government agents and elected representatives accountable for their actions, and that is to have extensive polygraph testing at least twice a year, for everyone, period. Routine psych tests seem like a pretty good idea too. Fail either and you're out, no ifs ands or buts. This could be done on a full spectrum, make sure teachers are doing their jobs, cops aren't violating any oaths, law makers aren't treasonously banning guns while feloniously selling them, etc...

Sure, that would unfairly take out some people who would otherwise do a good job, but government jobs are a privilege, not a right.

Great. Now we have government/elected shrinks too?!?

[Michigander]

There already are, among other things weeding out crazies from becoming cops, and as many of us have found "in the field" even that!isn't always enough. But it's certainly better than not doing it.

Why not give them some some overtime and get them to pluck crooked law makers and others  out of office? With modern polygraph technology where it is, I have a hard time believing it would make things worse.

[CV67PAT]

There already are, among other things weeding out crazies from becoming cops, and as many of us have found "in the field" even that!isn't always enough. But it's certainly better than not doing it.

Why not give them some some overtime and get them to pluck crooked law makers and others  out of office? With modern polygraph technology where it is, I have a hard time believing it would make things worse.

This is actually a great idea. There could be a federal agency that conducts the polygraphs withing the Department of Justice. They have a complete mobile force or polygraph operators and analysts that would be responsible for polygraphing every single state, local, and federal police officer. They would also polygraph every teacher, school administrator, school board member, and school janitor. Congressmen, senators, their staff members and liaisons would be analyzed by this agency also, as would each and every of their state counterparts. And don't forget the secretary of state, department of motor vehicles, agriculture departments, department of transportation, and prison guards.

And judges. Supreme court justices. State supreme court justices. Their staffs. Federal judges. State judges. Dog catchers. Court referees. Magistrates. Court clerks, court jesters, and court reporters should all be tested too.

And the TSA. God knows those bastards make our life miserable when ever we want to fly somewhere. We have to strip half naked while they look through our luggage. Every single one of them should have to be polygraphed in their underwear while standing in line.

And then there are the child protective services caseworker that try to take kids away from parents all the time just because some neighbor has a gripe.

Then immediately the semi-annual polygraph a caseworker psychiatrist form the Department of Health and Human Services will conduct a psychiatric evaluation of all of the aforementioned people.

And we can have all done for free under the Affordable Health Care Act. It really shouldn't take anymore than 2 or 3 million federal agents to implement this program.

Yeah I think it's a great idea. Let's get it going. And anyone that opposes it will automatically be deemed as being a traitor. And put in prison. Of course all othe prison guards will have to undergo extra scrutiny and evaluation.

[TucTom]

Pat, sounds like a job with a lot of OT. Can I apply, or would I have to take a polygraph test first?

[TheQ]

This is actually a great idea. There could be a federal agency that conducts the polygraphs withing the Department of Justice. They have a complete mobile force or polygraph operators and analysts that would be responsible for polygraphing every single state, local, and federal police officer. They would also polygraph every teacher, school administrator, school board member, and school janitor. Congressmen, senators, their staff members and liaisons would be analyzed by this agency also, as would each and every of their state counterparts. And don't forget the secretary of state, department of motor vehicles, agriculture departments, department of transportation, and prison guards.

And judges. Supreme court justices. State supreme court justices. Their staffs. Federal judges. State judges. Dog catchers. Court referees. Magistrates. Court clerks, court jesters, and court reporters should all be tested too.

And the TSA. God knows those bastards make our life miserable when ever we want to fly somewhere. We have to strip half naked while they look through our luggage. Every single one of them should have to be polygraphed in their underwear while standing in line.

And then there are the child protective services caseworker that try to take kids away from parents all the time just because some neighbor has a gripe.

Then immediately the semi-annual polygraph a caseworker psychiatrist form the Department of Health and Human Services will conduct a psychiatric evaluation of all of the aforementioned people.

And we can have all done for free under the Affordable Health Care Act. It really shouldn't take anymore than 2 or 3 million federal agents to implement this program.

Yeah I think it's a great idea. Let's get it going. And anyone that opposes it will automatically be deemed as being a traitor. And put in prison. Of course all othe prison guards will have to undergo extra scrutiny and evaluation.

LOL

[TheQ]

Pat V Glen now showing in the Ammo Dump....

http://forums.michiganopencarry.org/index.php/topic,3978.0.html

[bigt8261]

According to this there are about 22 million government workers.

At two polygraph tests per year, that would be 44,000,000 tests to be conducted yearly.

Assuming an extensive polygraph test could be administered (including filing the necessary paperwork) at a rate of 1 per hour, or 8 per day, it would take one person 5,500,000 days to conduct all of the tests, or a bit over 15,000 years.

Assuming 5 days of work per week and 50 weeks of work per year (2 weeks of vacation) 1 tester could effectively conduct (8 * 5 * 50) 2000 tests per year. Thus it would take (44 mil / 2000) about 22,000 testers to conduct all of the necessary tests (assuming the testers are not tested themselves).

Assuming a modest governmental benefit package of 50k per year, those 22,000 testers would cost roughly 1.1 Billion dollars per year.

However, once we account for government waste, overpayment and rising pay scales and benefits, my guess is by year 5 the price tag should be somewhere around 30-50 billion per year.

[TheQ]

....some would say that's money well spent!

And just think: some lowly, disgruntled shrink who didn't get the pay raise he wanted could fire the President!

[bigt8261]

Keep in mind those were very low numbers and they didn't include expenses.

[Michigander]

The scope of doing everyone is indeed a very good point. I am however convinced the idea is sound, at least in terms of polygraphing people with very important/sensitive jobs, as well as if nothing else at random, maybe through a lottery system, polygraphing others who work for the government. Putting someone in fear of repercussions for violating the rules is the only way restrictive rules can be enforced.

[TheQ]

The scope of doing everyone is indeed a very good point. I am however convinced the idea is sound, at least in terms of polygraphing people with very important/sensitive jobs, as well as if nothing else at random, maybe through a lottery system, polygraphing others who work for the government. Putting someone in fear of repercussions for violating the rules is the only way restrictive rules can be enforced.

But who will make the call if someone violated the rules or not? Another government official?

[Michigander]

I think my idea, flawed though it is as you guys have pointed out, is pretty clear. Fail a polygraph exam to make sure you're doing what you're supposed to, no government job. If it works in most states for cops, it can certainly work for others.