Author Topic: "Do you even know how to DNS" or how I learned to hate bluehost support  (Read 7702 times)

0 Members and 1 Guest are viewing this topic.

Offline jgillmanjr

  • MOC Member
  • *
  • Posts: 654
    • Freedom Forged Security Consulting
  • First Name (Displayed): Jason
So, I've been looking to setup a dev environment for MOC over on my VPS at work (for those who don't know, I work for a managed hosting company in Lansing called Liquid Web). I figured it would be easy enough - I would just delegate the dev.miopencarry.org and dev.michiganopencarry.org subzones over to my name servers.

Well, it's not possible to actually add NS records to a zone within cPanel itself - it needs to be added via WHM. So I pinged Bluehost support to see if they had anything on their end to enable me to do it myself.

Quote
Hello!
       
I'm looking to delegate dev.miopencarry.org and dev.michiganopencarry.org to a different set of nameservers.
       
I went to add the appropriate NS records, however it looks like that record type is not available in your zone editor. Is this something that could be enabled?
       
Thanks!
       
-Jason

Well, damn near two days later, I finally got a response.

Quote
Hello,

No it can not be done without effecting the actual site itself. The subdomains name servers are directly tied to the domain it belongs to name servers.

How did we do? Please help us improve the support that we offer you
by filling out this online survey:
http://www.surveygizmo.com/s3/1248462/bluehost

Thank you,
Richard
Web Advisor
BlueHost.com
888.401.4678

.... two days for that? So of course I respond with the exact set of records that needs to be set:
Quote
Richard,

It can be done without affecting the main domain. It's just an issue of adding two NS records in the zone file.

dev.miopencarry.org and dev.michiganopencarry.org aren't actually doing anything right now other than using the same docroot for the main site.

All I would need are the following NS records to be added to the respective zone files:

dev.miopencarry.org 3600 IN NS ns1.hookerswithhandguns.com.
dev.miopencarry.org 3600 IN NS ns2.hookerswithhandguns.com.

dev.michiganopencarry.org 3600 IN NS ns1.hookerswithhandguns.com.
dev.michiganopencarry.org 3600 IN NS ns2.hookerswithhandguns.com.


-Jason

I thought it was straight forward. Hell, I laid out exactly what they would need to enter. Apparently, they still don't understand - even after sitting on the damn response for 28 hours.

Quote
Thank you for contacting Bluehost support,

I understand that you want to change your nameservers.
Here is our helpdesk article with step by step instructions on how to change them.
https://my.bluehost.com/cgi/help/222

However you would change the nameservers for the main domain not the subdomains.

Thank you,
Hillary

My response, because English is hard:
Quote
No, I do not want to change the nameservers.

I want to add a set of NS records so that the dev.miopencarry.org and dev.michiganopencarry.org zones are delegated elsewhere.

-Jason

It then takes them a few hours short of two days to come up with this little gem:
Quote
you cannot change the name servers of a subdomain how ever you can still point them to a diffrent server using the Arecord or the Cname
https://my.bluehost.com/cgi/help/559
https://my.bluehost.com/cgi/help/508#a

How did we do? Please help us improve the support that we offer you
by filling out this online survey:
http://www.surveygizmo.com/s3/1248462/bluehost

Thank you,
Justin
Level I Tech Support Engineer

At this point, I figured I would send my initial public shaming via twitter: https://twitter.com/jgillmanjr/status/451787208056655872

With an all time record, they got back with me under three hours later:

Quote
Hello Jason,

We have looked into this for you at the request of our social media team. This can be done. Is what you need to do is contact your registrar (godaddy in this case) and have them set up the customer name servers. Then you need to point the A record of the subdomain to the IP of those custom NS. You will need two subdomains (dev1.michiganopencarry.org and dev2.michiganopencarry.org) that way you can point both A records to the two name server IP addresses.



How did we do? Please help us improve the support that we offer you
by filling out this online survey:
http://www.surveygizmo.com/s3/1248462/bluehost

Thank you,
Ryan
Web Advisor

Wait, what? Still on the A records kick? I didn't realize their favorite color was also tomato.

I also figured this was a good time to let them know I work for the competition, and wrote our KB article on doing subzone delegation:

Quote
Ryan,

The zone delegation won't require the addition of any A records.

Here is a paste of a dig trace for the NS records for rrfaae.com and test.rrfaae.com (two of my own domains):

==== rrfaae.com ====
jgillman@rrfaae:~ $dig ns +trace rrfaae.com

; <<>> DiG 9.8.4-rpz2+rl005.12-P1 <<>> ns +trace rrfaae.com
;; global options: +cmd
.                       518400  IN      NS      D.ROOT-SERVERS.NET.
.                       518400  IN      NS      E.ROOT-SERVERS.NET.
.                       518400  IN      NS      F.ROOT-SERVERS.NET.
.                       518400  IN      NS      G.ROOT-SERVERS.NET.
.                       518400  IN      NS      H.ROOT-SERVERS.NET.
.                       518400  IN      NS      I.ROOT-SERVERS.NET.
.                       518400  IN      NS      J.ROOT-SERVERS.NET.
.                       518400  IN      NS      K.ROOT-SERVERS.NET.
.                       518400  IN      NS      L.ROOT-SERVERS.NET.
.                       518400  IN      NS      M.ROOT-SERVERS.NET.
.                       518400  IN      NS      A.ROOT-SERVERS.NET.
.                       518400  IN      NS      B.ROOT-SERVERS.NET.
.                       518400  IN      NS      C.ROOT-SERVERS.NET.
;; Received 512 bytes from 10.30.7.254#53(10.30.7.254) in 155 ms

com.                    172800  IN      NS      b.gtld-servers.net.
com.                    172800  IN      NS      l.gtld-servers.net.
com.                    172800  IN      NS      d.gtld-servers.net.
com.                    172800  IN      NS      c.gtld-servers.net.
com.                    172800  IN      NS      a.gtld-servers.net.
com.                    172800  IN      NS      e.gtld-servers.net.
com.                    172800  IN      NS      m.gtld-servers.net.
com.                    172800  IN      NS      i.gtld-servers.net.
com.                    172800  IN      NS      j.gtld-servers.net.
com.                    172800  IN      NS      k.gtld-servers.net.
com.                    172800  IN      NS      g.gtld-servers.net.
com.                    172800  IN      NS      f.gtld-servers.net.
com.                    172800  IN      NS      h.gtld-servers.net.
;; Received 500 bytes from 192.58.128.30#53(192.58.128.30) in 271 ms

rrfaae.com.             172800  IN      NS      ns1.hookerswithhandguns.com.
rrfaae.com.             172800  IN      NS      ns2.hookerswithhandguns.com.
;; Received 116 bytes from 192.26.92.30#53(192.26.92.30) in 33 ms

rrfaae.com.             86400   IN      NS      ns2.hookerswithhandguns.com.
rrfaae.com.             86400   IN      NS      ns1.hookerswithhandguns.com.
;; Received 116 bytes from 67.227.241.38#53(67.227.241.38) in 0 ms

==== test.rrfaae.com ====
jgillman@rrfaae:~ $dig ns +trace test.rrfaae.com

; <<>> DiG 9.8.4-rpz2+rl005.12-P1 <<>> ns +trace test.rrfaae.com
;; global options: +cmd
.                       518400  IN      NS      I.ROOT-SERVERS.NET.
.                       518400  IN      NS      J.ROOT-SERVERS.NET.
.                       518400  IN      NS      K.ROOT-SERVERS.NET.
.                       518400  IN      NS      L.ROOT-SERVERS.NET.
.                       518400  IN      NS      M.ROOT-SERVERS.NET.
.                       518400  IN      NS      A.ROOT-SERVERS.NET.
.                       518400  IN      NS      B.ROOT-SERVERS.NET.
.                       518400  IN      NS      C.ROOT-SERVERS.NET.
.                       518400  IN      NS      D.ROOT-SERVERS.NET.
.                       518400  IN      NS      E.ROOT-SERVERS.NET.
.                       518400  IN      NS      F.ROOT-SERVERS.NET.
.                       518400  IN      NS      G.ROOT-SERVERS.NET.
.                       518400  IN      NS      H.ROOT-SERVERS.NET.
;; Received 512 bytes from 10.30.7.254#53(10.30.7.254) in 25 ms

com.                    172800  IN      NS      g.gtld-servers.net.
com.                    172800  IN      NS      i.gtld-servers.net.
com.                    172800  IN      NS      b.gtld-servers.net.
com.                    172800  IN      NS      f.gtld-servers.net.
com.                    172800  IN      NS      m.gtld-servers.net.
com.                    172800  IN      NS      l.gtld-servers.net.
com.                    172800  IN      NS      h.gtld-servers.net.
com.                    172800  IN      NS      k.gtld-servers.net.
com.                    172800  IN      NS      d.gtld-servers.net.
com.                    172800  IN      NS      j.gtld-servers.net.
com.                    172800  IN      NS      e.gtld-servers.net.
com.                    172800  IN      NS      c.gtld-servers.net.
com.                    172800  IN      NS      a.gtld-servers.net.
;; Received 493 bytes from 192.5.5.241#53(192.5.5.241) in 30 ms

rrfaae.com.             172800  IN      NS      ns1.hookerswithhandguns.com.
rrfaae.com.             172800  IN      NS      ns2.hookerswithhandguns.com.
;; Received 121 bytes from 192.35.51.30#53(192.35.51.30) in 59 ms

test.rrfaae.com.        14400   IN      NS      ns.sourcedns.com.
test.rrfaae.com.        14400   IN      NS      ns1.sourcedns.com.
;; Received 78 bytes from 67.227.241.38#53(67.227.241.38) in 10 ms

test.rrfaae.com.        72000   IN      NS      ns1.sourcedns.com. <--- different than the authoritative nameservers for rrfaae.com
test.rrfaae.com.        72000   IN      NS      ns.sourcedns.com.
;; Received 110 bytes from 69.16.223.254#53(69.16.223.254) in 1 ms


Here is the relavent copy/pasta from the rrfaae.com zone file that makes this magic happen:

root@host [~]# cat /var/named/rrfaae.com.db | grep test
; cPanel first:11.32.5.13 (update_time):1393330845 Cpanel::ZoneFile::VERSION:1.3 hostname:host.hookerswithhandguns.com latest:11.42.0.12

test    14400   IN      NS      ns.sourcedns.com. <--- note these are the only records in the rrfaae.com zone - no A records
test    14400   IN      NS      ns1.sourcedns.com.



As mentioned earlier, here are the sets of NS records that need to bet set in the appropriate zone files in WHM, or wherever you guys are handling your DNS:


dev.miopencarry.org 3600 IN NS ns1.hookerswithhandguns.com.
dev.miopencarry.org 3600 IN NS ns2.hookerswithhandguns.com.

dev.michiganopencarry.org 3600 IN NS ns1.hookerswithhandguns.com.
dev.michiganopencarry.org 3600 IN NS ns2.hookerswithhandguns.com.


Full disclosure: I work at Liquid Web, and I've even written the KB article on Zone delegation (http://kb.liquidweb.com/automating-dns-with-zone-delegation-and-the-storm-api/)


-Jason


I would have thought at this point they would get the idea, or at least read my damn KB article to see what the hell I'm talking about. Apparently not though (and another over 24 hour turn around time):

Quote
The sub domains can be pointed using an A record or a Cname
https://my.bluehost.com/hosting/help/559
dev.miopencarry.org can only be pointed using an A record or a Cname
miopencarry.org can be pointed using an A record or a Cname or nameservers



How did we do? Please help us improve the support that we offer you
by filling out this online survey:
http://www.surveygizmo.com/s3/1248462/bluehost

Thank you,
Justin
Level I Tech Support Engineer
BlueHost.com
888.401.4678

At this point the gloves are getting ready to come off. Still awaiting a response, but this is what I left them:

Quote
It seems pretty clear at this point that although I have essentially told you how to implement what I am asking, you still claim that it can't be done.

Could you please just escalate this to someone who understands what zone delegation is?

Thanks.

-Jason

I'll be interested to see what they come back with. If it's something other than "ok done" or at least some kind if intelligent response that I would expect from a competent sysadmin, I'm thinking my public shaming is going to move beyond this post to facebook or web hosting talk.

Stay tuned to see this trainwreck as it develops!
IT Director
Deputy Treasurer
Legislative Aide

Offline gryphon

  • Administrator
  • *****
  • Posts: 3991
  • First Name (Displayed): Dan
The twitter post and rapid response is curious to me since I still don't get the whole twitter thing, but whatever.

Can you call them?  Seems like you would get somewhere faster.  That way they can't pawn off a short email with bad info to you.  Repeatedly.  I feel your pain there.

Offline jgillmanjr

  • MOC Member
  • *
  • Posts: 654
    • Freedom Forged Security Consulting
  • First Name (Displayed): Jason
I'm thinking I might depending on how they respond.

As for the twitter thing - it's actually pretty common to get tickets nudged in the hosting industry. I've even answered a few questions via twitter on behalf of Liquid Web before. https://twitter.com/jgillman_lw
IT Director
Deputy Treasurer
Legislative Aide

Offline CV67PAT

  • MOC Charter Member
  • Posts: 2615
The twitter post and rapid response is curious to me since I still don't get the whole twitter thing, but whatever.

Can you call them?  Seems like you would get somewhere faster.  That way they can't pawn off a short email with bad info to you.  Repeatedly.  I feel your pain there.
HUH?!?!? Can he call them??? Nobody uses a phone anymore!!! Not even me hardly. Geez Dan. Don't you have any grand kids that can show you how to communicate these days? :toetap:

I have to admit, I'm still having a lot of trouble with that Tap & Talk feature. I'm on my third smatphone in two months. The glass keeps breaking. You'd think they'd make them stronger to withstand all the tapping. :shrug:
Want to keep informed of events in your area? Go to http://www.miopencarry.org/update

Offline jgillmanjr

  • MOC Member
  • *
  • Posts: 654
    • Freedom Forged Security Consulting
  • First Name (Displayed): Jason
Well, for me it's a way to have a paper trail and to make it clear exactly what I expect to happen.

Plus then I can share the agony joy of dealing with these people for all to see.
IT Director
Deputy Treasurer
Legislative Aide

Offline TheQ

  • Website Content Manager
  • MOC Lifetime Member
  • *
  • Posts: 4263
    • Michigan Open Carry, Inc.
  • First Name (Displayed): Phillip
"Do you even know how to DNS" or how I learned to hate bluehost support
« Reply #5 on: April 06, 2014, 02:01:59 AM »

Well, for me it's a way to have a paper trail and to make it clear exactly what I expect to happen.

Plus then I can share the agony joy of dealing with these people for all to see.

...voice recorder?
I Am Not A Lawyer (nor a gunsmith).

Offline jgillmanjr

  • MOC Member
  • *
  • Posts: 654
    • Freedom Forged Security Consulting
  • First Name (Displayed): Jason
Certainly an option
IT Director
Deputy Treasurer
Legislative Aide

Offline jgillmanjr

  • MOC Member
  • *
  • Posts: 654
    • Freedom Forged Security Consulting
  • First Name (Displayed): Jason
Their response yesterday:

Quote
Contacted L2 I'm looking to delegate dev.miopencarry.org and dev.michiganopencarry.org to a different set of nameservers.

12:00:41pmKen G.

can't do that unfortunately

12:01:00pmKen G.

for a domain to have it's own name servers it needs to be listed in domain manager

12:01:17pmKen G.

but we can't add subdomains for michiganopencarry.org, because that domain is already in our system

12:01:35pmKen G.

they can point the @ A record and www A record to the IP they want

12:01:38pmKen G.

but that's about it

12:01:42pmKen G.

it's a cpanel limitation



How did we do? Please help us improve the support that we offer you
by filling out this online survey:
http://www.surveygizmo.com/s3/1248462/bluehost

Thank you,
Justin
Level I Tech Support Engineer
BlueHost.com
888.401.4678

Apparently the idiocy doesn't stop...
IT Director
Deputy Treasurer
Legislative Aide

Offline SD40VE

  • SE Region Posse
  • Posts: 996
  • New Haven, Macomb County
  • First Name (Displayed): Bradley
level 1

Offline jgillmanjr

  • MOC Member
  • *
  • Posts: 654
    • Freedom Forged Security Consulting
  • First Name (Displayed): Jason
level 1

Yeah, we don't mess around with that tiered support stuff at LW.

Well, that's not entirely true, we do, but the only "higher" tier is enterprise, and those customers usually have custom designed infrastructure that actually gets documented.
IT Director
Deputy Treasurer
Legislative Aide

Offline SD40VE

  • SE Region Posse
  • Posts: 996
  • New Haven, Macomb County
  • First Name (Displayed): Bradley
Re: "Do you even know how to DNS" or how I learned to hate bluehost support
« Reply #10 on: April 07, 2014, 09:07:34 AM »
my company has 1 tier. if the remote support engineer cant fix it. time to dispatch an onsite tech. granted we are highly specialized and trained in the dental field. chances are most common issues can be resolved remotely.

it seems the support at bluehost is either A) retarded or B) just didnt give a crap

Offline jgillmanjr

  • MOC Member
  • *
  • Posts: 654
    • Freedom Forged Security Consulting
  • First Name (Displayed): Jason
Re: "Do you even know how to DNS" or how I learned to hate bluehost support
« Reply #11 on: April 07, 2014, 09:21:38 AM »
my company has 1 tier. if the remote support engineer cant fix it. time to dispatch an onsite tech. granted we are highly specialized and trained in the dental field. chances are most common issues can be resolved remotely.

it seems the support at bluehost is either A) retarded or B) just didnt give a crap

I'll take "All of the above" for $500, Alex.
IT Director
Deputy Treasurer
Legislative Aide

Offline bigt8261

  • MOC President
  • MOC Board Member
  • ******
  • Posts: 1482
    • Michigan Open Carry, Inc
  • First Name (Displayed): Tom
Re: "Do you even know how to DNS" or how I learned to hate bluehost support
« Reply #12 on: April 07, 2014, 09:31:11 AM »
I say you tell them that they have one last chance to do what you've already told them how to do. After that, you're gong to post your conversation online for public shaming.

Offline jgillmanjr

  • MOC Member
  • *
  • Posts: 654
    • Freedom Forged Security Consulting
  • First Name (Displayed): Jason
Re: "Do you even know how to DNS" or how I learned to hate bluehost support
« Reply #13 on: April 07, 2014, 09:41:26 AM »
Oh trust me, I'm getting ready to unleash the public shaming nuclear option on facebook and/or web hosting talk.
IT Director
Deputy Treasurer
Legislative Aide

Offline SD40VE

  • SE Region Posse
  • Posts: 996
  • New Haven, Macomb County
  • First Name (Displayed): Bradley
Re: "Do you even know how to DNS" or how I learned to hate bluehost support
« Reply #14 on: April 07, 2014, 10:43:37 AM »
personally since you were dealing with level. i would have called. and right off the bat said. i have been working with tier 1 support. the issue is still not resolved. i need to speak to a supervisor. the supervisor would then more than likely get you in touch with tier 2 or 3 depending on their tier system. bigger comapnies do that alot. dell is one, microshaft is another, and most telcom places. ATT, cbeyond, comshaft, paetec.

i usually say i am a support engineer. i ahve tried all the teir one stuff. now i need someone who will fix my issue once and for all.

usually getting nasty on the phone will get results

Offline bigt8261

  • MOC President
  • MOC Board Member
  • ******
  • Posts: 1482
    • Michigan Open Carry, Inc
  • First Name (Displayed): Tom
Re: "Do you even know how to DNS" or how I learned to hate bluehost support
« Reply #15 on: April 07, 2014, 11:03:44 AM »
But if their teir I support staff are not either capable of addressing the issue or raising the issue to someone who is, then they deserve to be shamed. Especially after so many attempts and literally telling them the fix.

If they offer a support system, that support system should work. A customer should not be forced to go outside of that system to get their issue resolved. Always give companies a chance to fix their problems. If they don't jump on that chance, it's not your fault.

Offline jgillmanjr

  • MOC Member
  • *
  • Posts: 654
    • Freedom Forged Security Consulting
  • First Name (Displayed): Jason
Re: "Do you even know how to DNS" or how I learned to hate bluehost support
« Reply #16 on: April 07, 2014, 11:22:57 AM »
But if their teir I support staff are not either capable of addressing the issue or raising the issue to someone who is, then they deserve to be shamed. Especially after so many attempts and literally telling them the fix.

If they offer a support system, that support system should work. A customer should not be forced to go outside of that system to get their issue resolved. Always give companies a chance to fix their problems. If they don't jump on that chance, it's not your fault.

Indeed. I've worked on the support floor - that's where I hired into at Liquid Web. Gave them the benefit of the doubt.

Apparently I need to break out the stick now.
IT Director
Deputy Treasurer
Legislative Aide

Offline CV67PAT

  • MOC Charter Member
  • Posts: 2615
Re: "Do you even know how to DNS" or how I learned to hate bluehost support
« Reply #17 on: April 07, 2014, 11:44:58 AM »
Generally when I get poor service like this, I take my money elsewhere.
Want to keep informed of events in your area? Go to http://www.miopencarry.org/update

Offline hevymetal

  • Posts: 46
Re: "Do you even know how to DNS" or how I learned to hate bluehost support
« Reply #18 on: April 07, 2014, 12:32:56 PM »
Why not just add simple A name record to the existing DNS?
 
domain                        TTL    IP
dev.yourdomain.com 7200 1.2.3.4

If you can't directly edit DNS I would find another hosting provider.


Offline jgillmanjr

  • MOC Member
  • *
  • Posts: 654
    • Freedom Forged Security Consulting
  • First Name (Displayed): Jason
Re: "Do you even know how to DNS" or how I learned to hate bluehost support
« Reply #19 on: April 07, 2014, 12:41:30 PM »
Why not just add simple A name record to the existing DNS?
 
domain                        TTL    IP
dev.yourdomain.com 7200 1.2.3.4

If you can't directly edit DNS I would find another hosting provider.

So that I can let, say, the A record for forum.dev.miopencarry.org be generated and handled automatically by my VPS, and not requiring me to edit A records for the dev environment on bluehost...
IT Director
Deputy Treasurer
Legislative Aide