Author Topic: Arrested without breaking any law  (Read 9126 times)

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Offline Golden Eagle

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« Last Edit: April 08, 2014, 03:11:53 PM by gryphon »
"The very atmosphere of firearms anywhere and everywhere restrains evil interference - they deserve a place of honor with all that's good."

George Washington

Offline Glock9mmOldStyle

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Re: Arrested without braking any law
« Reply #1 on: April 06, 2014, 08:35:04 PM »
They are also OE  (opinions enforcement), not just LE.  Had police actually observed a violation of the law ....they might have a case. Since they didn't they just wasted more tax dollars. Being that the man involved is of meager means, they BPD, will probably get away with this BS this time.
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Offline gryphon

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Re: Arrested without braking any law
« Reply #2 on: April 06, 2014, 08:44:33 PM »
I'd like to know what false charge the cops arrested him on. Why don't reporters ask pertinent questions?

Offline casper

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Re: Arrested without braking any law
« Reply #3 on: April 06, 2014, 08:49:09 PM »
LGOC ?

Offline TheQ

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Arrested without braking any law
« Reply #4 on: April 06, 2014, 10:49:36 PM »

LGOC ?

I'll let it slide for now. BTW, you can always use the report button...
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Offline bigt8261

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Re: Arrested without braking any law
« Reply #5 on: April 07, 2014, 09:06:03 AM »
Can anyone confirm that there are "No Gun" signs posted at the bus station?

I'm thinking a call or email is in order today.

Offline Golden Eagle

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Re: Arrested without braking any law
« Reply #6 on: April 07, 2014, 01:31:54 PM »
I'll let it slide for now. BTW, you can always use the report button...
Thanks, I saw this as a firearm transport news story more than anything oc.
"The very atmosphere of firearms anywhere and everywhere restrains evil interference - they deserve a place of honor with all that's good."

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Offline lil_freak_66

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Re: Arrested without braking any law
« Reply #7 on: April 07, 2014, 06:12:08 PM »
If it was in a bag how can he be possibly cited for ccw?

It would be a simple improper transport of a firearm at worst...
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Offline gryphon

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Re: Arrested without braking any law
« Reply #8 on: April 07, 2014, 09:13:58 PM »
Seeing as how he was in Battle Creek, maybe they thought he was a cereal killer.

Offline gryphon

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Re: Arrested without braking any law
« Reply #9 on: April 08, 2014, 09:39:13 AM »
From the creators of Breaking Bad comes...

Battle Creek (2014– )
TV Series  -  Crime | Drama

Two detectives with different views on the world team up and using cynicism, guile and deception, they clean up the streets of Battle Creek.

Creators: Vince Gilligan, David Shore
Stars: Aydin Amoli, Steve Troublesome Castillo, Aubrey Dollar

http://www.imdb.com/title/tt3215364/

Battle Creek is a Michigan-set detective drama ordered by CBS for a series production for the 2014-15 season.

http://www.hollywoodreporter.com/news/vince-gilligan-breaking-bads-searchers-639466

Offline gryphon

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Re: Arrested without braking any law
« Reply #10 on: April 08, 2014, 12:32:20 PM »
UPDATE

A Battle Creek man, who was taken into custody for trying to take a semi-automatic rifle onto a commercial passenger bus has entered a guilty plea to a misdemeanor.

They haven’t been able to find a gun charge he violated.

He has been given 4 days in jail and a $260 fine for resisting an officer.

Meanwhile Battle Creek police may ask federal investigators to review their case to determine if any federal gun laws were violated.

The officers who confronted Jason Smith at the Battle Creek bus station this week didn't know whether it was an assault rifle or not at the time. They just wanted to get home alive that night.

http://wkzo.com/news/articles/2014/apr/05/battle-creek-police-charge-man-with-a-rifle-with-a-misdemeanor/

Offline bigt8261

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Re: Arrested without braking any law
« Reply #11 on: April 08, 2014, 01:38:33 PM »
I've been trying to reach the BCT administrative office all yesterday and this morning. I finally was able to transfer myself to someone. I asked if they knew whether or not the BCT station(s) have any no-gun signs. Unfortunately, the person I spoke to did not know the answer. They took my information and hopefully will get back to me.

She did however, tell me that they allow firearms on buses. She also mentioned that it was a Greyhound bus the man was trying to board.

Offline TheQ

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Re: Arrested without braking any law
« Reply #12 on: April 08, 2014, 01:47:58 PM »
I've been trying to reach the BCT administrative office all yesterday and this morning. I finally was able to transfer myself to someone. I asked if they knew whether or not the BCT station(s) have any no-gun signs. Unfortunately, the person I spoke to did not know the answer. They took my information and hopefully will get back to me.

She did however, tell me that they allow firearms on buses. She also mentioned that it was a Greyhound bus the man was trying to board.

Federal Common Carrier law may come into play here.
I Am Not A Lawyer (nor a gunsmith).

Offline CV67PAT

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Re: Arrested without braking any law
« Reply #13 on: April 08, 2014, 01:50:45 PM »
UPDATE

A Battle Creek man, who was taken into custody for trying to take a semi-automatic rifle onto a commercial passenger bus has entered a guilty plea to a misdemeanor.

They haven’t been able to find a gun charge he violated.

He has been given 4 days in jail and a $260 fine for resisting an officer.

Meanwhile Battle Creek police may ask federal investigators to review their case to determine if any federal gun laws were violated.

The officers who confronted Jason Smith at the Battle Creek bus station this week didn't know whether it was an assault rifle or not at the time. They just wanted to get home alive that night.

http://wkzo.com/news/articles/2014/apr/05/battle-creek-police-charge-man-with-a-rifle-with-a-misdemeanor/
I want to get home alive at night after work also. I work in a far more dangerous environment than any LEO. Just last week a crane fell killing the operator, at Great Lakes Steel. The second in less than a year. Last fall a press slide moved with two workers inside of it at Ford Dearborn Stamping.
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Offline bigt8261

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Re: Arrested without braking any law
« Reply #14 on: April 08, 2014, 03:35:51 PM »
Federal Common Carrier law may come into play here.

I'm not familiar with this. Please explain.

Offline TheQ

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Arrested without breaking any law
« Reply #15 on: April 08, 2014, 03:46:45 PM »
http://professionaloutdoormedia.org/node/5725

This video also references these laws:


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Offline gryphon

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Re: Arrested without breaking any law
« Reply #16 on: April 08, 2014, 03:51:50 PM »
But common carriers aren't required by law to allow firearms, right?  Greyhound can probably refuse to have firearms on their buses, even in the luggage area.

Offline bigt8261

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Re: Arrested without breaking any law
« Reply #17 on: April 09, 2014, 09:01:02 AM »
I just received a call back from Battle Creek Transit.

BCT allows firearms and has no signs. Their station is across the street from the Greyhound station which also houses Amtrack, Indian Trails and something else. That station is a public building leased by Greyhound and the others.

There might be something to pursue here.

Offline TheQ

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Arrested without breaking any law
« Reply #18 on: April 09, 2014, 09:50:41 AM »

I just received a call back from Battle Creek Transit.

BCT allows firearms and has no signs. Their station is across the street from the Greyhound station which also houses Amtrack, Indian Trails and something else. That station is a public building leased by Greyhound and the others.

There might be something to pursue here.

But wasn't he *ON* the bus at that time?
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Offline bigt8261

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Re: Arrested without breaking any law
« Reply #19 on: April 09, 2014, 09:53:00 AM »
No. He was arrested prior to boarding a bus.

Offline CV67PAT

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Re: Arrested without breaking any law
« Reply #20 on: April 09, 2014, 09:53:17 AM »
But wasn't he *ON* the bus at that time?
How'd did he get *ON* the bus???
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Offline TheQ

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Arrested without breaking any law
« Reply #21 on: April 09, 2014, 09:55:34 AM »

No. He was arrested prior to boarding a bus.

Was he attempting to board? If so, did he declare his firearm with the common carrier?
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Offline bigt8261

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Re: Arrested without breaking any law
« Reply #22 on: April 09, 2014, 09:57:02 AM »
One article said that he was going to put the firearm in the luggage compartment under the bus (transport mode). I don't know if he was in the act of that when he was detained or not.

Offline CV67PAT

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Re: Arrested without breaking any law
« Reply #23 on: April 09, 2014, 10:09:41 AM »
Oh "board" the bus.

Whew! :crazy:
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Offline TheQ

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Arrested without breaking any law
« Reply #24 on: April 09, 2014, 10:11:32 AM »

One article said that he was going to put the firearm in the luggage compartment under the bus (transport mode). I don't know if he was in the act of that when he was detained or not.

Even if it was stowed, I think Federal Law requires it be declared with the common carrier....
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Offline bigt8261

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Re: Arrested without breaking any law
« Reply #25 on: April 09, 2014, 10:13:57 AM »
For reference, when I mentioned something to pursue, what I meant was the possible "no gun" signs allegedly posted on what has been said to be a public building.

Offline gryphon

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Re: Arrested without breaking any law
« Reply #26 on: April 09, 2014, 10:25:40 AM »
Tom is correct, he was never on a bus, he was just waiting for the bus.

Offline CV67PAT

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Re: Arrested without breaking any law
« Reply #27 on: April 09, 2014, 11:15:17 AM »
Even if it was stowed, I think Federal Law requires it be declared with the common carrier....
Do you have a cite for that?
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Offline TheQ

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Arrested without breaking any law
« Reply #28 on: April 09, 2014, 11:19:52 AM »
Do you have a cite for that?

18 USC 922

(a) It shall be unlawful—(e) It shall be unlawful for any person knowingly to deliver or cause to be delivered to any common or contract carrier for transportation or shipment in interstate or foreign commerce, to persons other than licensed importers, licensed manufacturers, licensed dealers, or licensed collectors, any package or other container in which there is any firearm or ammunition without written notice to the carrier that such firearm or ammunition is being transported or shipped; except that any passenger who owns or legally possesses a firearm or ammunition being transported aboard any common or contract carrier for movement with the passenger in interstate or foreign commerce may deliver said firearm or ammunition into the custody of the pilot, captain, conductor or operator of such common or contract carrier for the duration of the trip without violating any of the provisions of this chapter. No common or contract carrier shall require or cause any label, tag, or other written notice to be placed on the outside of any package, luggage, or other container that such package, luggage, or other container contains a firearm.
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Offline LD

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Re: Arrested without breaking any law
« Reply #29 on: April 09, 2014, 12:15:17 PM »
18 USC 922

(a) It shall be unlawful—(e) It shall be unlawful for any person knowingly to deliver or cause to be delivered to any common or contract carrier for transportation or shipment in interstate or foreign commerce, to persons other than licensed importers, licensed manufacturers, licensed dealers, or licensed collectors, any package or other container in which there is any firearm or ammunition without written notice to the carrier that such firearm or ammunition is being transported or shipped; except that any passenger who owns or legally possesses a firearm or ammunition being transported aboard any common or contract carrier for movement with the passenger in interstate or foreign commerce may deliver said firearm or ammunition into the custody of the pilot, captain, conductor or operator of such common or contract carrier for the duration of the trip without violating any of the provisions of this chapter. No common or contract carrier shall require or cause any label, tag, or other written notice to be placed on the outside of any package, luggage, or other container that such package, luggage, or other container contains a firearm.

Going from GR to Lansing would be "Intrastate" and not covered by Fed. law.

Offline gryphon

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Re: Arrested without breaking any law
« Reply #30 on: April 09, 2014, 12:40:12 PM »
And even if it was, if he stowed it he would have turned over the gun to the custody of the operator of the vehicle for stowage.  And he wouldn't have had to "declare" it.  But yeah, what LD said.

Offline bigt8261

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Re: Arrested without breaking any law
« Reply #31 on: April 09, 2014, 01:26:49 PM »
Going from GR Battle Creek to Lansing would be "Intrastate" and not covered by Fed. law.

FIFY

Offline Golden Eagle

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Re: Arrested without breaking any law
« Reply #32 on: April 09, 2014, 01:38:02 PM »
Even if it was stowed, I think Federal Law requires it be declared with the common carrier....
Did you declare your pistol when you rode the Lansing bus? I too think that would only apply when crossing a state line.

Too bad for his sake he pled guilty on the resisting arrest of the illegal arrest.
« Last Edit: April 09, 2014, 03:06:40 PM by Golden Eagle »
"The very atmosphere of firearms anywhere and everywhere restrains evil interference - they deserve a place of honor with all that's good."

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Offline TheQ

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Arrested without breaking any law
« Reply #33 on: April 09, 2014, 02:01:36 PM »
I wasn't aware of the specifics of where the bus was going.
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Offline Glock9mmOldStyle

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Re: Arrested without breaking any law
« Reply #34 on: April 09, 2014, 03:56:51 PM »
They basically extorted this guy via fines and fees vs cost of lawyer fees. He chose the lesser cost in the short term. Later he will regret it, but it was what he thought works best for him. Had he had the means to fight these trumped up charges, he may have beat them & won a suit against the BPD. That's our "legal" system for you...justice for all...who can afford a good lawyer...time off work...travel to and from court multiple times,  lost wages...etc...otherwise plead out and pay the man on your way out the door. :( He told them he was taking the gun to sell it in Lansing. Another example of why you don't talk to police - they knew he could not afford a court case, thus their motivation to throw as many spaghetti charges as possible. Game over!
"It is now more likely that a person will be the victim of a violent crime than that he will be in an auto accident. Despite this, most people readily believe that the existence of the police relieves them of the responsibility to take full measures to protect themselves."
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Offline gryphon

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Re: Arrested without breaking any law
« Reply #35 on: April 09, 2014, 04:26:19 PM »
Here's a restatement/slight rewording by me of what one MOC fb member wrote. There was no gun charge filed. The police arrested him and he spent four days in jail before his court appearance. By this time the lawyers and the judge realized that he had not yet broken any laws. So the judge gave him a small fine and time served for resisting arrest, or actually “hindering or obstructing an officer” as BC calls it. It’s a catch-all charge they use. They couldn’t readily admit that he was arrested and jailed without just cause. Here’s what all the parties have said about this on the record.
+++++
“I didn’t really do it on purpose,” said Jason Smith. “I was just nervous and kept moving around and he thought I was trying to resist arrest.”

“When we made contact with him he was resisting, pulling away, was nervous,” said Sgt. Jeff Case, Battle Creek Police Gang Unit on Thursday. “Basically didn’t want us to make contact with him originally.”
+++++
Yeah, I bet. A young black guy traveling with a rifle being approached by the BC Gang Unit? Why were you trying to arrest him anyway, Sgt. Case? No one is asking the Battle Creek police that!

Offline CV67PAT

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Re: Arrested without breaking any law
« Reply #36 on: April 09, 2014, 08:38:58 PM »
They basically extorted this guy via fines and fees vs cost of lawyer fees. He chose the lesser cost in the short term. Later he will regret it, but it was what he thought works best for him. Had he had the means to fight these trumped up charges, he may have beat them & won a suit against the BPD. That's our "legal" system for you...justice for all...who can afford a good lawyer...time off work...travel to and from court multiple times,  lost wages...etc...otherwise plead out and pay the man on your way out the door. :( He told them he was taking the gun to sell it in Lansing. Another example of why you don't talk to police - they knew he could not afford a court case, thus their motivation to throw as many spaghetti charges as possible. Game over!
The 5th Amendment afford us the right to STFU and have counsel present during questioning. And if we can't afford counsel, it will be appointed for us.

Everybody has seen COPS. Everybody knows Miranda. But just like on COPS, "maybe if I am nice with Officer Friendly I won't get in trouble."

Or like the other crowd likes to espouse, "if I'm not doing anything wrong, why not cooperate with Officer Friendly."

It's all academic now because the guy plead guilty of his own volition.

Here's a restatement/slight rewording by me of what one MOC fb member wrote. There was no gun charge filed. The police arrested him and he spent four days in jail before his court appearance. By this time the lawyers and the judge realized that he had not yet broken any laws. So the judge gave him a small fine and time served for resisting arrest, or actually “hindering or obstructing an officer” as BC calls it. It’s a catch-all charge they use. They couldn’t readily admit that he was arrested and jailed without just cause. Here’s what all the parties have said about this on the record.
+++++
“I didn’t really do it on purpose,” said Jason Smith. “I was just nervous and kept moving around and he thought I was trying to resist arrest.”

“When we made contact with him he was resisting, pulling away, was nervous,” said Sgt. Jeff Case, Battle Creek Police Gang Unit on Thursday. “Basically didn’t want us to make contact with him originally.”
+++++
Yeah, I bet. A young black guy traveling with a rifle being approached by the BC Gang Unit? Why were you trying to arrest him anyway, Sgt. Case? No one is asking the Battle Creek police that!

The question doesn't need to asked because it's right there in black.

NWAG = Black man With A Gun

Would the gang squad treated me like that? They might have tried. But I doubt it.
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