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Author Topic: OCed or carried otherwise....  (Read 8599 times)

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Offline autosurgeon

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OCed or carried otherwise....
« on: July 12, 2010, 10:48:47 PM »
OCed (or carried otherwise) on the Motorcycle to the Waffle House in Lawrence had supper. Then OCed (or carried otherwise) from there to my gun-club OCed at the gun-club meeting and then back home on the bike. No issues!
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Anything I post may be my opinion and not the law... you are responsible to do your own verification.

Blackstone (1753-1765) maintains that "the law holds that it is better that ten guilty persons escape than that one innocent suffer."

Offline smallthunder

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Re: OCed or carried otherwise....
« Reply #1 on: July 12, 2010, 11:18:35 PM »
I OC om my bike all the time and never get bothered. I don't understand this issue of OCing and motorcycles.
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Offline autosurgeon

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Re: OCed or carried otherwise....
« Reply #2 on: July 12, 2010, 11:31:09 PM »
Quote from: smallthunder on July 12, 2010, 11:18:35 PM
I OC om my bike all the time and never get bothered. I don't understand this issue of OCing and motorcycles.

Do you have a CPL?

If so you are fine... but otherwise you are in a grey area.

The or carried otherwise is a crack at the CPL law as it says the CPL enables you to carry concealed or otherwise in a vehicle.
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Anything I post may be my opinion and not the law... you are responsible to do your own verification.

Blackstone (1753-1765) maintains that "the law holds that it is better that ten guilty persons escape than that one innocent suffer."

Offline mosnar87

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Re: OCed or carried otherwise....
« Reply #3 on: July 12, 2010, 11:35:09 PM »
See the videos below.

This sort of incident is what makes "OC on a motorcycle" a big deal.




« Last Edit: July 13, 2010, 09:52:45 PM by mosnar87 »
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Offline JoeCar

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Re: OCed or carried otherwise....
« Reply #4 on: July 13, 2010, 12:29:07 AM »
Does anyone know how this ended?
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Offline smallthunder

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Re: OCed or carried otherwise....
« Reply #5 on: July 13, 2010, 08:57:41 AM »
Oh and I take that back, I did have an Ann Arbor K-9 Officer roll up behind me the other day telling me "for what it's worth, we have a lot of people calling in about your gun." No lights, no ID check, no nothing other then that. Just fallowed me into the lot where I was getting food.  I said "so you tell then it's legal?" No answer and he just left.

Yes I have a CPL and yes the CPL enables you to carry concealed or otherwise in a vehicle. I have not read anything stating on a vehicle. Isn't this just another example of some cops trying to figure out how to harass us?

I have seen the video's before. The only gray area is the ignorance of the cops. If they can not educate themselves of the laws they are to uphold then they need to find another job. I also saw Kimberguy got pulled over at 17:50 to about 18:25, and after the cops new Kimberguy didn't violate the law the cop held him for another five minutes or so. Isn't that a violation of the US Supreme Court ruling state one can not be detained over time 20 unless being charged with a crime?

While on a vehicle (motorcycle, moped, bicycle, etc.) you are not concealing and therefor area not required to hold a CPL.
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Offline EM87

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Re: OCed or carried otherwise....
« Reply #6 on: July 13, 2010, 10:16:00 AM »
Quote from: smallthunder on July 13, 2010, 08:57:41 AM
SNIP

While on a vehicle (motorcycle, moped, bicycle, etc.) you are not concealing and therefor area not required to hold a CPL.

But would that be violating the transport law?
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"You'll be walking along.. OC.. and you'll feel GREAT. You'll feel FREEEEE like 1776 kind of Free." -cscitney87 (from opencarry.org)

Offline smallthunder

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Re: OCed or carried otherwise....
« Reply #7 on: July 13, 2010, 10:40:17 AM »
Why would that be violating the transport law? Does the transport law intend that you are concealing the weapon, ammo separated, for the sake of transporting the weapon from one place to another?  If you are OCing within the law (the gun is in plan site at all times) then you are not transporting, you are legally OCing.
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Offline autosurgeon

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Re: OCed or carried otherwise....
« Reply #8 on: July 13, 2010, 11:14:48 AM »
That is a dangerous opinion Smallthunder.

A motorcycle is licensed as a vehicle in MI therefor for all intents and purposes in or ON makes little difference in the eyes of the law. The state police are the only agency that I know that agree with you. However their opinion only applies and is binding on State Police officers. The point is OC without a CPL is a GREY area and it is NOT one I would recommend folks without a CPL spend time in unless they have the money for a lawsuit.

And EM87 is right they could get you for unlawful transport or a CCW charge or both and then it would be up to the courts to decide... most people cannot afford the legal battle so we recommend staying out of Grey areas where there is no case law and the laws themselves are not clear.

IMOP you can think what you like but please don't recommend that non CPL holder OC on a motorcycle or even a bicycle for the reasons mention above!
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Anything I post may be my opinion and not the law... you are responsible to do your own verification.

Blackstone (1753-1765) maintains that "the law holds that it is better that ten guilty persons escape than that one innocent suffer."

Offline smallthunder

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Re: OCed or carried otherwise....
« Reply #9 on: July 13, 2010, 03:31:00 PM »
I am not recommending a thing.  I am questioning the gray area.  Perhaps I was wrong about what this forum was about.

In any case, everything I read states in, and says nothing about on.
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Offline FatboyCykes

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Re: OCed or carried otherwise....
« Reply #10 on: July 13, 2010, 03:38:35 PM »
Quote from: smallthunder on July 13, 2010, 03:31:00 PM
I am not recommending a thing.  I am questioning the gray area.  Perhaps I was wrong about what this forum was about.

In any case, everything I read states in, and says nothing about on.


Geeze...

You stated your opinion, and AS stated the official stance of MOC as this topic has been discussed to death and beyond.  And as we're not in the business of getting our members in trouble, but rather keeping them out of it while promoting OC, he's simply clarifying MOC's position so that any other new comer that comes in and reads this thread before any other, doesn't run and jump on his Harley/Honda/Suzuki and earn themselves a 5 year felony or a huge lawyer bill...  Nobody's censoring your or attacking you or your opinion, chill out.
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Offline autosurgeon

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Re: OCed or carried otherwise....
« Reply #11 on: July 13, 2010, 04:07:59 PM »
As you may have noticed Smallthunder I Cited the State Police who agree with you... however most people that OC have bad interactions with other agencies NOT the state police.

I agree with you that it says IN and not ON and would love it if there was case law. But there is NOT so I and MOC cannot recommend OC on a 2 wheeled conveyance of any kind at this time!

I did not mean any personal disrespect but as this is something that could earn a person the loss of 2A rights for life I tend to speak loudly about it!
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Anything I post may be my opinion and not the law... you are responsible to do your own verification.

Blackstone (1753-1765) maintains that "the law holds that it is better that ten guilty persons escape than that one innocent suffer."

Offline Agent1

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Re: OCed or carried otherwise....
« Reply #12 on: July 13, 2010, 04:35:56 PM »
 :o........SNAP!

I for one do not want to become the object of case law. I personally do not want the aggravation at this point in my life. For that I would not ask for someone to make that sacrifice in my stead either. BUT............if it was not for the men who did stand up when they did, the right would not exist. Someone, at some point has tread through the "grey area" for what he or she believed was their right.
 Unfortunately, most people are frightened at the sight of someone walking about with a visible sidearm. Until the general public is better educated about the fundamental rights of citizens to carry a firearm in the open for self-defense, we need to keep as many of our comrades as possible out of the headlights for infringing on the "grey areas".

I couldn't agree more with the right of all men to carry long guns in public, but even I cringe at the sight of someone walking around with an AR at first sight. I for one can get used to it quickly but other people gather their children and find a place to hide and get on their cell phones for help. We need more positive exposure before there is a cry from the public to put a stop to OC.

Just my opinion, go easy on me. :-[
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"It isn't always being fast or even accurate that counts. It's being willing. I found out early that most men, regardless of cause or need, arn't willing. They blink an eye or draw a breath before they pull the trigger. I won't."
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Offline FatboyCykes

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Re: OCed or carried otherwise....
« Reply #13 on: July 13, 2010, 04:37:34 PM »
Quote from: Agent1 on July 13, 2010, 04:35:56 PM
:o........SNAP!

I for one do not want to become the object of case law. I personally do not want the aggravation at this point in my life. For that I would not ask for someone to make that sacrifice in my stead either. BUT............if it was not for the men who did stand up when they did, the right would not exist. Someone, at some point has tread through the "grey area" for what he or she believed was their right.
 Unfortunately, most people are frightened at the sight of someone walking about with a visible sidearm. Until the general public is better educated about the fundamental rights of citizens to carry a firearm in the open for self-defense, we need to keep as many of our comrades as possible out of the headlights for infringing on the "grey areas".

I couldn't agree more with the right of all men to carry long guns in public, but even I cringe at the sight of someone walking around with an AR at first sight. I for one can get used to it quickly but other people gather their children and find a place to hide and get on their cell phones for help. We need more positive exposure before there is a cry from the public to put a stop to OC.

Just my opinion, go easy on me. :-[

Get the torches...
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Offline smallthunder

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Re: OCed or carried otherwise....
« Reply #14 on: July 13, 2010, 09:37:25 PM »
Quote from: autosurgeon on July 13, 2010, 04:07:59 PM
As you may have noticed Smallthunder I Cited the State Police who agree with you... however most people that OC have bad interactions with other agencies NOT the state police.

I agree with you that it says IN and not ON and would love it if there was case law. But there is NOT so I and MOC cannot recommend OC on a 2 wheeled conveyance of any kind at this time!

I did not mean any personal disrespect but as this is something that could earn a person the loss of 2A rights for life I tend to speak loudly about it!

It's all good AotuSurgeon.  Great to have you on our side.
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