got sheriff called me in iosco county this weekend

[SD40VE]

was out fishing on cooke pond. im guessing some other boater saw i was OC my pistol and called the sheriff on me, they came to our fishing spot and started their investigation. once they confirmed i had a valid CPL they went on their way. first time i had sheriff pull up next to me while out fishing on a boat.

[bigt8261]

What was their reason for stopping you?

[SD40VE]

im assuming a man on a boat with a gun. he said they had a report of a suspicious person who was armed (because me fishing is super suspicious!). he said they had to investigate as is their SOP when it comes to reports of armed people and motor vehicles.. he said he has alot of issues with city people who dont know the rules of being on a boat on the water. he wanted to make sure everything was in order. im assuming since the boat is motorized the same rules apply as a motorcycle and car for carrying, must have a CPL to OC while on/in a motor vehicle. im hoping the same doesnt happen with DNR one day while out on the quads while i am OC. we had a discussion here on this prior to fishing season when i was seeking clarification on the rules of carrying while on a boat. he didnt ticket me or anything (honestly i was doing nothing wrong) and as soon as i saw them coming i pulled my wallet out and set on the boat seat so i wasnt reaching anywhere that would give them a reason to draw down on me or do something stupid. he pulled up, i declared i had a cpl he looked at it. made sure i had a valid fishing license and went on his way after apologizing for the encounter. i guess only thing i got out of it was my name in an iosco county encounter/investigation report for the sheriff.

[bigt8261]

I was wondering if he demanded to see your CPL. I don't think he had a legit reason to stop you, but I don't know if special rules apply while on a boat. IE, is it ok for them to just check to see if you are licensed (fishing), which gived them the authority to create a stop a will.

[SD40VE]

i can assume since one needs a CPL to carry ona  boat. they would have the ability to make a stop to double check. like they do when they see someone on a motorcycle who is carrying. since its a motor vehicle i think there are special circumstances. either way all my paperwork is legit and nothing came of it so im ok with it. just thought id share the LEO encounter

[gryphon]

I think Tom is wondering whether a boat qualifies as a CPL-required vehicle like a car does.  Motorcycle is a grey area.  Out of an abundance of caution we assume it is, but the MSP has stated their policy is a CPL is not required for OC on a motorcycle.  Your local cop or sheriff might not agree, though.

[SD40VE]

I think Tom is wondering whether a boat qualifies as a CPL-required vehicle like a car does.  Motorcycle is a grey area.  Out of an abundance of caution we assume it is, but the MSP has stated their policy is a CPL is not required for OC on a motorcycle.  Your local cop or sheriff might not agree, though.

which they didnt, lol, it appears they were under the assumption that any motor vehicle is a cpl designated area. boat, atv, motorcycle. where transport rules need to be followed if you dont have a cpl

[Xpiatio]

How did you like the $26 license fee they (the state) imposed on you for fishing?

[SD40VE]

i paid $76 for mine

hunt/fish combo

i paid $28 for my all species last year so i saved $2 this year

still looking for that monster sturgeon though or even a nice muskie would be cool

[bigt8261]

I think Tom is wondering whether a boat qualifies as a CPL-required vehicle like a car does.  Motorcycle is a grey area.  Out of an abundance of caution we assume it is, but the MSP has stated their policy is a CPL is not required for OC on a motorcycle.  Your local cop or sheriff might not agree, though.

No, that's not it. If it's a boat with a motor, then I would agree a CPL is required. IIRC, there is another statute outside of 750.227 that covers this. Yep, 750.227c. Note, 750.231 applies to 227c just as it applies to 227.

What I was asking about was the justification for the stop. We know an officer can't pull a vehicle over just to make sure the drive is licensed. We also know an officer can't stop someone on the street just to make sure their firearm is licensed.

Can an officer stop a vehicle to make sure the operator has a CPL?

Or, did the stop come about under the pretense of fishing regs?

[SD40VE]

im guessing it was a man with a gun. he didnt say exactly why he just said someone was concerned and called them about me and he wanted to make sure everything was in line id assume. i know when they dispatch someone they have their investigation to do. this kind of reminds me of the video where someone was OC and they saw cops in the parking lot.cops said something they said they were OC because its legal. then when he went to the truch they asked about his permit to conceal. since i was in a boat with a motor OC wouldnt that be justifiable in making sure i have a CPL since its a restricted area for only cpl holders?

[bigt8261]

im guessing it was a man with a gun. he didnt say exactly why he just said someone was concerned and called them about me and he wanted to make sure everything was in line id assume. i know when they dispatch someone they have their investigation to do. this kind of reminds me of the video where someone was OC and they saw cops in the parking lot.cops said something they said they were OC because its legal. then when he went to the truch they asked about his permit to conceal. since i was in a boat with a motor OC wouldnt that be justifiable in making sure i have a CPL since its a restricted area for only cpl holders?

It has been specifically ruled that the police CANNOT just check to see if you have a driver's license.
It has been specifically ruled that the police CANNOT just check to see if your firearm is licensed.

What has not been specifically ruled on yet is whether or not an officer can check to see if you have a CPL when acting under authority of that CPL.

[SD40VE]

It has been specifically ruled that the police CANNOT just check to see if you have a driver's license.
It has been specifically ruled that the police CANNOT just check to see if your firearm is licensed.

What has not been specifically ruled on yet is whether or not an officer can check to see if you have a CPL when acting under authority of that CPL.

so until we can get a law passed that doesnt allow a cop to verify a cpl when using a motorized vehicle they can do a stop and check. granted in a car it isnt as obvious as standing in a boat. its pretty much out there for all to see which i would assume the reason for them coming. now if i was shore fishing they would have been politely told to kick rocks

[bigt8261]

It's more than that. Under authority of your CPL means in or on a vehicle or motor boat, and/or while concealing. It also means in a PFZ.

Let's say you are OCing at Walmart (with a CPL). Can an officer detain you until you provide a valid CPL? I have seen people come down on both sides of this.

[SD40VE]

It's more than that. Under authority of your CPL means in or on a vehicle or motor boat, and/or while concealing. It also means in a PFZ.

Let's say you are OCing at Walmart (with a CPL). Can an officer detain you until you provide a valid CPL? I have seen people come down on both sides of this.

if its somewhere you MUST HAVE A CPL to oc i dont think its a problem, they should be able to confirm you are licensed and are not breaking the law. or else criminals will oc because they cant be stopped or asked about their firearms. its a loophole they will exploit to the best of their ability... some may not feel the same.

[bigt8261]

if its somewhere you MUST HAVE A CPL to oc i dont think its a problem, they should be able to confirm you are licensed and are not breaking the law. or else criminals will oc because they cant be stopped or asked about their firearms. its a loophole they will exploit to the best of their ability... some may not feel the same.

Well, in order to possess a pistol in public you MUST be licensed or exempt from licensure. 
Similarly, in order to possess a pistol in a GFZ or PFZ, you MUST be licensed to carry a concealed pistol or exempt from licensure.

If they can't stop you to simply check for one, how can they stop you to simply check for the other?  I maintain that they need a reason (RAS) to believe you are not licensed.

(ETA) This is not to say that what you did was wrong. It's just a discussion about what is required. You know, in case the officer wants to be a jerk and you feel like you need to protect yourself.

[Jeff]

I feel they have no reason to suspect that you are not licensed and should not have the authority to demand your CPL to verify that you are.

[linux203]

[Golden Eagle]

OK just so we can have this discussed correctly...

so until we can get a law passed that doesnt allow a cop to verify a cpl when using a motorized vehicle they can do a stop and check. granted in a car it isnt as obvious as standing in a boat. its pretty much out there for all to see which i would assume the reason for them coming. now if i was shore fishing they would have been politely told to kick rocks

The law for pistols just says vehicle, not motorized vehicle.

It's more than that. Under authority of your CPL...

The law also says ”and who is carrying a concealed pistol”...
28.425f (2) An individual who is licensed under this act to carry a concealed pistol and who is carrying a concealed pistol or a portable device that uses electro-muscular disruption technology shall show both of the following to a peace officer upon request by that peace officer:
(a) His or her license to carry a concealed pistol.
(b) His or her driver license or Michigan personal identification card.

... means in or on a vehicle or motor boat, and/or while concealing. It also means in a PFZ.

The law for pistols just says in a vehicle.
750.227 (2) A person shall not carry a pistol concealed on or about his or her person, or, whether concealed or otherwise, in a vehicle operated or occupied by the person, except in his or her dwelling house, place of business, or on other land possessed by the person, without a license to carry the pistol as provided by law and if licensed, shall not carry the pistol in a place or manner inconsistent with any restrictions upon such license.

if its somewhere you MUST HAVE A CPL to oc i dont think its a problem, they should be able to confirm you are licensed and are not breaking the law. or else criminals will oc because they cant be stopped or asked about their firearms. its a loophole they will exploit to the best of their ability... some may not feel the same.

If this were true then criminals would have started OCing years ago, everywhere.
I do agree with the drivers license comparison. LEO's can't just stop people to see if their licensed.

Now I am not a lawyer so I will suggest showing all ID's in any vehicle until others agree with me.

Carry on.

[bigt8261]

The law for pistols just says in a vehicle.

Notice I cited MCL 750.227c

(1) Except as otherwise permitted by law, a person shall not transport or possess in or upon a sailboat or a motor vehicle, aircraft, motorboat, or any other vehicle propelled by mechanical means, a firearm, other than a pistol, which is loaded.