Author Topic: open carry with cpl in hospitals (Read 11869 times)

francis · « **on:** June 23, 2014, 10:29:51 PM »

Did I here right in the moc video that open carry in hospitals is permited with a cpl? Looking on the back of my cpl license It says it is prohibited to conceal in a hospital and for me this is a grey area! please someone that knows the law well on this fill me in!

jasoncw · « **Reply #1 on:** June 23, 2014, 10:37:08 PM »

Yes it is ok to OC with a CPL. However, if it is a privately owned hospital, they can ask you to leave. If you do not comply, you could be charged with trespassing.

The hospital he entered is privately owned with no firearms signs posted, but no one told him to leave. He mentioned that both the nurse and doctor saw him carrying.

MCL 750.237a(5)

birddseedd · « **Reply #2 on:** June 23, 2014, 10:42:52 PM »

Keep your arm down to your side, nobody will see it.

those that do, the observant less sheepish ones, won't care as long as your body language shows that you have a legitimate reason to be there.

so is my experience in hospitals.

gryphon · « **Reply #3 on:** June 23, 2014, 10:44:08 PM »

Yes, by law you can OC in a hospital if you have a CPL.

MCL 750.234d says you need a CPL to possess a firearm on hospital premises. However, MCL 28.425o says you cannot conceal unless you have a special exemption, so OC is the only option as MCL 28.425o only applies to concealed carry.

If it is a private hospital they can ask you to leave, though.

francis · « **Reply #4 on:** June 23, 2014, 10:55:40 PM »

thanks for the post if anyone else has any imput please post your thoughts or facts on this subject!

bigt8261 · « **Reply #5 on:** June 24, 2014, 09:12:57 AM »

MCL 750.237a (5) is the wrong cite. That is for schools.

Follow what gryphon cited. MCL 750.234d and 28.425o.

Langenc · « **Reply #6 on:** June 29, 2014, 05:08:25 PM »

But if the door is posted-better leave it outside..dont make em ask you to leave.

autosurgeon · « **Reply #7 on:** June 29, 2014, 10:16:39 PM »

A posting on the door only matters if they are a private hospital. There are a few publicly owned hospitals that are posted in which the signs have no weight. However most hospitals on the state are private and if posted as I have seen could be notification of trespass as it was obvious and plenty big.

In any case it is not a gun charge.

CV67PAT · « **Reply #8 on:** June 29, 2014, 10:55:17 PM »

Quote from: CG2880 on June 29, 2014, 05:08:25 PM

But if the door is posted-better leave it outside..dont make em ask you to leave.

Why not?

Jeff · « **Reply #9 on:** June 30, 2014, 01:27:11 AM »

My only real fear of being asked to leave might be never actually being asked at all.

COP: Come with us, you were asked to leave the premises and refused.
Me: I was never asked to leave.
Private Property agent: Yes I did.

Me: I would have left immediately if you had asked, I will leave right now.
COP: You're under arrest for criminal trespass.

ME:

mosnar87 · « **Reply #10 on:** June 30, 2014, 04:08:42 PM »

Quote from: Jeff on June 30, 2014, 01:27:11 AM

My only real fear of being asked to leave might be never actually being asked at all.

COP: Come with us, you were asked to leave the premises and refused.
Me: I was never asked to leave.
Private Property agent: Yes I did.

Me: I would have left immediately if you had asked, I will leave right now.
COP: You're under arrest for criminal trespass.

ME:

Voice recorder.

SD40VE · « **Reply #11 on:** June 30, 2014, 04:38:59 PM »

Quote from: mosnar87 on June 30, 2014, 04:08:42 PM

Voice recorder.

everyone should have the recording app. or use a voice recorder. this prevents selective memory

CV67PAT · « **Reply #12 on:** June 30, 2014, 08:14:53 PM »

Quote from: SD40VE on June 30, 2014, 04:38:59 PM

everyone should have the recording app. or use a voice recorder. this prevents selective memory

But if the question was never asked, how can you record it not being asked?

COP: Come with us, you were asked to leave the premises and refused.
Me: I was never asked to leave.
Private Property agent: Yes I did.
Me: No you didn't. I have it recorded right here.
COP: Let me hear where he didn't ask you.
COP: Play that one more time please.

Me: I would have left immediately if you had asked, I will leave right now.
COP: You're under arrest for criminal trespass.

birddseedd · « **Reply #13 on:** June 30, 2014, 08:37:33 PM »

How about we walk the sidewalk armed until the government make it legal for us to carry. a hospital is different than any other place. you don't have a choice but to go. I can choose to go to a theater or not, but if you are sick, you have to go to the hospital. why should you lose your rights just because you get sick.

CV67PAT · « **Reply #14 on:** June 30, 2014, 08:48:12 PM »

Quote from: birddseedd on June 30, 2014, 08:37:33 PM

How about we walk the sidewalk armed until the government make it legal for us to carry. a hospital is different than any other place. you don't have a choice but to go. I can choose to go to a theater or not, but if you are sick, you have to go to the hospital. why should you lose your rights just because you get sick.

It already is legal to open carry in a hospital, with a CPL.

birddseedd · « **Reply #15 on:** June 30, 2014, 08:49:16 PM »

i'm tired.

i meant to say illegal for them to refuse you and kick you out for lawfully being in posession of a firearm

TheQ · « **Reply #16 on:** July 01, 2014, 10:42:00 AM »

Quote from: birddseedd on June 30, 2014, 08:49:16 PM

i'm tired.

i meant to say illegal for them to refuse you and kick you out for lawfully being in posession of a firearm

I'm personally opposed to telling a private property owner that they cannot kick anyone out for any reason.

birddseedd · « **Reply #17 on:** July 01, 2014, 10:45:24 AM »

hospitals don't have business owners

CV67PAT · « **Reply #18 on:** July 01, 2014, 10:45:56 AM »

Quote from: TheQ on July 01, 2014, 10:42:00 AM

I'm personally opposed to telling a private property owner that they cannot kick anyone out for any reason.

I agree. Even if they're barefoot.

CV67PAT · « **Reply #19 on:** July 01, 2014, 10:46:51 AM »

Quote from: birddseedd on July 01, 2014, 10:45:24 AM

hospitals don't have business owners

Privately owned hospitals do.

birddseedd · « **Reply #20 on:** July 01, 2014, 10:54:26 AM »

The ones around here are non profits. They have a board of trustees that represent the non profit entity.

The for profit dr offices are the ones who don't care about firearms. But they don't have emergency rooms paid for by my taxes.

So why should I make a choice between my health and my rights?

CV67PAT · « **Reply #21 on:** July 01, 2014, 11:00:00 AM »

Quote from: birddseedd on July 01, 2014, 10:54:26 AM

The ones around here are non profits. They have a board of trustees that represent the non profit entity.

The for profit dr offices are the ones who don't care about firearms. But they don't have emergency rooms paid for by my taxes.

So why should I make a choice between my health and my rights?

Just because a hospital operates as a "not for profit" entity, doesn't mean it is not privately owned.

Furthermore, you don't have to make a choice between your health care and your rights. You are free to choose any healthcare provider you desire. You are not forced to patronize one over another. Just go somewhere else.

birddseedd · « **Reply #22 on:** July 01, 2014, 12:11:06 PM »

This is the only pediatric emergency room here. I don't have a choice

CV67PAT · « **Reply #23 on:** July 01, 2014, 03:49:44 PM »

Quote from: birddseedd on July 01, 2014, 12:11:06 PM

This is the only pediatric emergency room here. I don't have a choice

You stated earlier that you didn't have a problem in any hospital...

Quote from: birddseedd on June 23, 2014, 10:42:52 PM

Keep your arm down to your side, nobody will see it.

those that do, the observant less sheepish ones, won't care as long as your body language shows that you have a legitimate reason to be there.

so is my experience in hospitals.

And now you're making it out to be like you can't get treatment because your "rights are being violated" by someone exercising their private property rights.

Your stories seem to change colors based on your audience just like a chameleon.

birddseedd · « **Reply #24 on:** July 01, 2014, 04:07:45 PM »

that was my experience from previous visits. obviously this visit went quite differently

yes I got treatment for my kid, after disarming myself.

the other times I spoke about I was only there to visit somebody

jgillmanjr · « **Reply #25 on:** July 01, 2014, 04:11:16 PM »

Quote from: CV67PAT on July 01, 2014, 03:49:44 PM

You stated earlier that you didn't have a problem in any hospital...

And now you're making it out to be like you can't get treatment because your "rights are being violated" by someone exercising their private property rights.

Your stories seem to change colors based on your audience just like a chameleon.

CV67PAT · « **Reply #26 on:** July 01, 2014, 04:41:19 PM »

Quote from: birddseedd on July 01, 2014, 04:07:45 PM

that was my experience from previous visits. obviously this visit went quite differently

yes I got treatment for my kid, after disarming myself.

the other times I spoke about I was only there to visit somebody

What do you mean "This visit?!?!?"
You didn't mention any other visits.

What are you doing? Making stuff up as you go along???

Practically every thread you post in there's some conflicting information in your posts with lame excuses about being tired or posting in the wrong thread or can't find the right thread.

You should try to keep a handle on your stories.

SD40VE · « **Reply #27 on:** July 01, 2014, 04:55:37 PM »

Quote from: CV67PAT on July 01, 2014, 04:41:19 PM

What do you mean "This visit?!?!?"
You didn't mention any other visits.

What are you doing? Making stuff up as you go along???

Practically every thread you post in there's some conflicting information in your posts with lame excuses about being tired or posting in the wrong thread or can't find the right thread.

You should try to keep a handle on your stories.

hes in one of those moods again

TheQ · « **Reply #28 on:** July 01, 2014, 05:03:28 PM »

I'm putting this thread to bed -- at least until Pat inherits his new powerzzz.

jgillmanjr · « **Reply #29 on:** July 01, 2014, 05:23:35 PM »

Mmm... POWER!

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Author Topic: open carry with cpl in hospitals (Read 11869 times)