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Author Topic: Walking stop...  (Read 25429 times)

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Offline Advanced Security

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Walking stop...
« on: July 18, 2010, 09:38:24 PM »
OCing in flint for me seems to attract police.

I went for a 45 min walk around my neighborhood with my wife tonight. As we were arriving home, 6 police cars sped down my road towards me.  Before I went in the house, I went to greet the officer.  He demands my CPL, I inform him I don't have to give him one, he says yes, I eventually do, he whines that I need to conceal. I explain visual deterant, etc, he whines some more, as his buddy reaches for my gun to disarm me. They proceed to insist that I have no choice but to comply, and identify. I'm not 100% sure what the law is or isn't, but neither were any of them, so none of us pushed real hard.

So, what is the law? In a case where people call, am I obligated to identify? 3 of the 6 were real rude, the other three were real nice...no recording of the convo, my bad...that won't happen again...

Jeff
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Offline autosurgeon

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Re: Walking stop...
« Reply #1 on: July 18, 2010, 09:40:24 PM »
You need to spend more time in the OC questions section... Read ALL the stickies. Watch ALL the videos.
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Anything I post may be my opinion and not the law... you are responsible to do your own verification.

Blackstone (1753-1765) maintains that "the law holds that it is better that ten guilty persons escape than that one innocent suffer."

Offline emt805

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Re: Walking stop...
« Reply #2 on: July 18, 2010, 10:37:35 PM »
Quote from: Advanced Security on July 18, 2010, 09:38:24 PM
his buddy reaches for my gun to disarm me

Bad choice on his part. You reach for it I see you as going to use it against me. If you would have reached for his gun he and his buddys would have put a hurt on you. I would of held my ground, not shown cpl as you are oc nor would I have shown id as I was not brandishing nor am I commiting a crime for him to stop and hold me. I would have informed them to get a supervisor on scene to see how that went. Just speaking for myself.
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Offline wardog6t

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Re: Walking stop...
« Reply #3 on: July 18, 2010, 11:04:23 PM »
Video? Audio? Recorder?
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Offline wardog6t

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Re: Walking stop...
« Reply #4 on: July 18, 2010, 11:10:10 PM »
Lately LEO's have been using the a new tactic of "Are you a Felon" to get you to provide ID. Then once you don't provide ID the LEO can say he had reasonable suspicion to detain you and further exploit your weakness of not fully understanding the law.
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"Any day you don't hear a "POP" and "WHIZ" is a Wonderful day....."

Offline autosurgeon

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Re: Walking stop...
« Reply #5 on: July 18, 2010, 11:10:33 PM »
Quote from: wardog6t on July 18, 2010, 11:04:23 PM
Video? Audio? Recorder?

He stated he has none...
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Anything I post may be my opinion and not the law... you are responsible to do your own verification.

Blackstone (1753-1765) maintains that "the law holds that it is better that ten guilty persons escape than that one innocent suffer."

Offline wardog6t

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Re: Walking stop...
« Reply #6 on: July 18, 2010, 11:16:27 PM »
Yes I was looking for WHY he didnt have them?
Quote from: autosurgeon on July 18, 2010, 11:10:33 PM
Quote from: wardog6t on July 18, 2010, 11:04:23 PM
Video? Audio? Recorder?

He stated he has none...
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"Any day you don't hear a "POP" and "WHIZ" is a Wonderful day....."

Offline Advanced Security

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Re: Walking stop...
« Reply #7 on: July 18, 2010, 11:29:15 PM »
Quote from: wardog6t on July 18, 2010, 11:10:10 PM
Lately LEO's have been using the a new tactic of "Are you a Felon" to get you to provide ID. Then once you don't provide ID the LEO can say he had reasonable suspicion to detain you and further exploit your weakness of not fully understanding the law.

So what to do in this case? Ask for a suprivisor? How do I handle that? I've read the stuff in OC questions, watched the videos, am I correct in assuming even though they had someone call on me, I could stand and not co-operate with requests for id and everything?

Jeff
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Offline wardog6t

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Re: Walking stop...
« Reply #8 on: July 18, 2010, 11:31:15 PM »
DO NOT PROVIDE ID? You can verbally tell them your information. Always have video/audio recording device when OC.
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Offline emt805

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Re: Walking stop...
« Reply #9 on: July 18, 2010, 11:32:36 PM »
Quote from: Advanced Security on July 18, 2010, 11:29:15 PM
Quote from: wardog6t on July 18, 2010, 11:10:10 PM
Lately LEO's have been using the a new tactic of "Are you a Felon" to get you to provide ID. Then once you don't provide ID the LEO can say he had reasonable suspicion to detain you and further exploit your weakness of not fully understanding the law.


What I would do if it was me would be to pull out the cpl and allow them to see the photo and keep all my info covered.
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Offline wardog6t

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Re: Walking stop...
« Reply #10 on: July 18, 2010, 11:34:12 PM »
When you are OCing you do not have to provide your CPL or DL Period.
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Offline wardog6t

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Re: Walking stop...
« Reply #11 on: July 18, 2010, 11:35:33 PM »
Only when you are placed under arrest, you must provide identification. "Cant cite it."
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Offline wardog6t

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Re: Walking stop...
« Reply #12 on: July 18, 2010, 11:36:44 PM »
Your identification is almost like drugs. "Just say NO"!
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Offline wardog6t

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Re: Walking stop...
« Reply #13 on: July 18, 2010, 11:39:32 PM »
ALWAYS have a video/audio device. I cannot stress this enough. Even when you are CCing. For various reasons always have something with you. If you are about to be detained turn it on, have a freind, wife or just leave it on the dash. Whatever record everything.
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"Any day you don't hear a "POP" and "WHIZ" is a Wonderful day....."

Offline JoeCar

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Re: Walking stop...
« Reply #14 on: July 19, 2010, 12:34:56 AM »
I'm interested in what the writing below Infidel says. Nice pic of the back of your head.
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Offline mosnar87

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Re: Walking stop...
« Reply #15 on: July 19, 2010, 01:27:40 AM »
According to the URL, this image comes from a site called "RankMyTattoos" so it may or may not be an image of wardog6t.

 If it is, great! But one shouldn't assume that an avatar is always the person behind the keyboard.

Just my 2 cents.
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"I don't want to be someone that successfully defends himself with a pistol.  I want to be someone that never has to defend himself with a pistol."
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Offline wardog6t

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Re: Walking stop...
« Reply #16 on: July 19, 2010, 01:33:10 AM »
Ding Ding Ding! We have a winner!
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"Any day you don't hear a "POP" and "WHIZ" is a Wonderful day....."

Offline Bronson

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Re: Walking stop...
« Reply #17 on: July 19, 2010, 02:21:10 AM »
Quote from: Advanced Security on July 18, 2010, 09:38:24 PM
They proceed to insist that I have no choice but to comply, and identify.

28.425f

Quote
28.425f Concealed pistol license; possession; disclosure to police officer; violation; penalty; seizure; forfeiture; "peace officer" defined.
Sec. 5f.

(1) An individual who is licensed under this act to carry a concealed pistol shall have his or her license to carry that pistol in his or her possession at all times he or she is carrying a concealed pistol.

(2) An individual who is licensed under this act to carry a concealed pistol and who is carrying a concealed pistol shall show both of the following to a peace officer upon request by that peace officer:

(a) His or her license to carry a concealed pistol.

(b) His or her driver license or Michigan personal identification card.

(3) An individual licensed under this act to carry a concealed pistol and who is carrying a concealed pistol and who is stopped by a peace officer shall immediately disclose to the peace officer that he or she is carrying a pistol concealed upon his or her person or in his or her vehicle.

If you are not carrying a concealed pistol the ID and disclosure requirement in the concealed carry statute does not apply.

There may be another law and/or court decision that does require ID but if you're OC 28.425f ain't it.

Bronson

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Offline ken243

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Re: Walking stop...
« Reply #18 on: July 19, 2010, 05:34:45 AM »
Advanced secuirty; I am currently deployed in Afghanistan. My first R&R is in Nov. I live in Clio so if you would like to stroll through Flint OC I am game. I have video sunglasses and a belt clip video camera. I can send you some links if you want on where to get them. I figure if I get arrested they will find one camera and erase it but maybe not 2.
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Offline FatboyCykes

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Re: Walking stop...
« Reply #19 on: July 19, 2010, 05:56:07 AM »
It's easy to armchair quarterback in these situations.  When you have 6(?)cop cars rolling up on you it can get intimidating real quick, specially when/if you're with family and/or friends.  They were obviously in the wrong here as you did not have to provide ID, I think you knew this instinctively, but of course there's always pause for concern when the adrenaline is pumping and guns are involved.  Chalk this up as a learning experience and prepare better for the next one, as there probably will be one. 
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