Why not to depend on Wiki-anything for answers

[Jeff]

Dang high pressure rounds beating your gun to death

Was that you that said your backup was a Shield?

[Golden Eagle]

Don't over look the 'Related wikiHows' at the bottom.
How to Buy a Pistol
"Do you want something that could fit in your pocket or something that would be a nuisance to carry around all day in a holster. (I.E. a .357 magnum)"

I wish someone would have told me that five years ago. 

[Super Trucker]

An if you want a little extra punch with the .40S&W you can go to a +P load. Or a  +P+ .40S&W load.

Oh wait, my mistake. There is no such thing as a +P or a +P+ .40S&W.

Nevermind.

https://www.buffalobore.com/index.php?l=product_list&c=25

http://georgia-arms.com/new40smithandwesson155grgolddothollowpointp100pk-1.aspx

http://georgia-arms.com/new40smithandwesson165grgolddothollowpointp1000pk.aspx

[Jeff]

What kind of crazy SOB would use +p+ with a .40  It doesn't need anymore pressure.

[part deux]

460 or go home

[gryphon]

If it's extra punch you want, why be such a middle of the road wimp with .40? Why not just step up and go with 10mm?

 

Who wants extra punch?  Why don't the 9mm people go with 10mm?

[linux203]

Who wants extra punch?  Why don't the 9mm people go with 10mm?

'Cause I want the second round center mass and the third on the top shelf, not both sailing into the sunset.

[gryphon]

9mm 124gr +P+.

What's the SAAMI specs on 9mm +P+ again?

[gryphon]

'Cause I want the second round center mass and the third on the top shelf, not both sailing into the sunset.

So if someone chooses a .40 over a 10mm because they don't want the extra recoil, they're wimpy and compromising, but if someone chooses a 9mm over a 10mm because they don't want the extra recoil, they're smart?

[linux203]

So if someone chooses a .40 over a 10mm because they don't want the extra recoil, they're wimpy and compromising, but if someone chooses a 9mm over a 10mm because they don't want the extra recoil, they're smart?

You missed my point and a step...

If someone chooses the .40 over the 10mm because they can handle the recoil better, they are smart.  If someone chooses the 9mm over the .40 because they can handle the recoil better, they are smart.  If someone chooses the 380acp over the 9mm because they can handle the recoil better, they are smart.

I can shoot a 45ACP (Kimber 1911) better than I can shoot a .40S&W (M&P Shield, Glock 23), but I shoot a 9mm better than both. Am I wimpy and compromising because I don't carry a 45?

[gryphon]

Am I wimpy and compromising

Don't know about wimpy, but compromising?  Yes.  The point is, though, that EVERY gun and round is a compromise in size, power, and capacity. 

[Jeff]

We 9mm guys don't carry a 10mm because we don't want to kill the attacker, an engine block, a fire hydrant, and extinguish the sun every time the gun is fired.

I actually do want to get something in 10mm and carry it

But the real reason is, there is no point, dead is dead, there is no extra dead.

I did tons of research when deciding on my carry gun and caliber.  After realizing we're just splitting hairs here with calibers for SD rounds I got what I wanted.  Others got what they wanted.  I'm happy with mine, they are happy with theirs.  I will never call my choice better or best because it isn't the best for everyone.  But every caliber is the "best" depending on who ran the test so the bottom line is shoot what you are comfortable with.

One thing that sucks is that I shoot a Glock 30 better than my 19 GRRRRRRR lol.  But as I practice more I have gotten much better with my 19.  But that was with practice, the G30 just felt so natural that I didn't really need practice.  I shot a Kimber 1911 and hated it, I couldn't shoot it worth a darn, the back safety kept pinching me, it was uncomfortable to hold BLEH!

I went shooting many months ago and a friend brought a woman who had never fired a gun in her life.  She shot my Glock 19 9mm, and shot my friends (something that I don't remember all steel) in .40 and because of the weight difference of the gun, she said my 9mm kicked more.

[CV67PAT]

What's the SAAMI specs on 9mm +P+ again?

That's a NATO load.

[SD40VE]

Dang high pressure rounds beating your gun to death

Was that you that said your backup was a Shield?

either a sheild or a sig p250 in 9mm yes

[gryphon]

Dang high pressure rounds beating your gun to death

To what "high pressure" rounds are you referring?  9mm +P?  .40 S&W?

[SD40VE]

To what "high pressure" rounds are you referring?  9mm +P?  .40 S&W?

+P+ has to be pretty high pressure.

i know 40 is pretty dang high in pressure as well lol

[gryphon]

+P+ has to be pretty high pressure.

i know 40 is pretty dang high in pressure as well lol

9mm is 35,000 PSI.
.40 S&W is 35,000 PSI.  How is that higher pressure?

9mm +P is 10% higher, 38,500 PSI.  There is no such thing as +P+.  If a manufacturer sells something he calls +P+ ammo, you have no idea if it is 111% of standard pressure or 125% of standard pressure.  All you know is someone loaded the round up hotter than standard (and presumably even hotter than +P).

The .40 S&W is ballistically an FBI 10mm Lite.  The .40 is precisely a 10mm Lite using a shortened case to allow high capacity in a smaller gun.

[gryphon]

pretty sure my 180 GR will get it done. i have bonded win ranger and normal win ranger. both good rounds in the top 3 with HST and gold dot

Not as well as a .45ACP 230gr +P or a 9mm 124gr +P+.

That's a NATO load.

I don't know where you're getting that the 9mm NATO is a +P+ loading or better than a .40 Gold Dot or HST.  It isn't even better than a 9mm Gold Dot or HST!

Contrary to the misinformation posted most places, there is nothing at all hot or special about the 9mm 124 grain NATO load. The velocity figures that people like to throw around for the 9mm 124 grain NATO round are from test barrels, (7.85” EPVAT barrels to be specific) not actual pistol barrels. Even when fired from a Beretta 92, with its 5 inch barrel, the 124 grain NATO round doesn’t even come close to the velocities people claim. In fact, there is little difference in velocity between the 9mm 124 grain NATO round and a modern standard pressure 9mm 124 grain hollow point round.

As an example, the chronograph printout shown below is from the Speer 124 grain Gold Dot (standard pressure load) fired from a Beretta 92. The instrumental velocity at 21 feet is 1114 fps.



Now take a look at the next chronograph printout. This printout is from the Winchester 9mm 124 grain NATO load fired from the same Beretta 92, fired immediately after the Gold Dot load was fired. The instrumental velocity at 21 feet is 1108 fps; 6 fps less than the Gold Dot load.



Here is some additional chronograph data, this time comparing Federal's 9mm 124 grain NATO load to several other 124 grain duty loads. All loads were fired from a SIG Sauer P229 with a 3.8" barrel. Note that the 9mm NATO load is the slowest load in the table.



9mm NATO is a standard pressure load, not some super hot load (although some designations for sub-guns are supposed to be hotter, I have yet to see C.I.P. pressures for 9mm NATO), but you're shooting round nose, not hollow point, and you're not getting any better velocity than standard self-defense ammo.  What you are getting with 9mm NATO is a round with less stopping power.

[gryphon]

we're just splitting hairs here with calibers for SD rounds

Although placement is more important than the round, I would not agree that we are just "splitting hairs."  If you can get a larger caliber or a "significantly" higher speed (like rifle speed), it's worth considering.



Many people compromise and shoot a 9mm instead of a .45 ACP because it is easier shooting, lighter, and carries more rounds.  Nothing wrong with that.  The only issue is when people start shooting rounds which have inadequate power.  9mm is generally considered the least one should carry (e.g., no .380 ACP).

[Jeff]

All calibers have been proven to be crap in some tests and godly in other tests.  We are just splitting hairs here with calibers.  Any caliber is capable of a one shot stop, some have taken 20 rounds to bleed a person out.  Doesn't matter what caliber it was you could interchange the guy that was shot 10 times and lived with a different caliber and he probably still would have lived because of where the bullet went.  It's POSSIBLE the bigger round could have nicked something to bleed a person out faster.

I have seen some badly deformed .45's that look like crap after going through gel where a certain brand of 9mm was better, I have seen some 9mm's not expand same with 40's and 45's so yeah, we're just splitting hairs with calibers.  they have all been proven effective and less effective at different times.

I won't throw rifle rounds into the mix of pistol rounds though, that's not fair.

I don't see how 9mm is the "least" what bias person wrote that test up, what is the max (probably the caliber they carry), why are all ammo made to the same standards in performance in SD rounds.  Why do the tests I see of 9mm penetrating just as well as 45's.  Still the only way the attacker stops is when their brain stops because it is no longer getting oxygen, the extra bullet size might make them pass out a whole few seconds faster not that it's a bad thing because it isn't, but it's such a slight difference.  And anyone could go into instant shock from any caliber so..splitting hairs.