Power Outage.

[autosurgeon]

The neutrals both connect to the center angled buss bar. The grounds are on the one above it. So yes

The gen wires look tiny because they are copper and the utility feed is alum.
 

The gen should handle the AC we will know for sure once we get the gas line run and can test the system. If not we can isolate it as the panel has an AC isolator built in. It will only allow it to start when the total load is below a certain threshold.

[linux203]

The neutrals both connect to the center angled buss bar. The grounds are on the one above it. So yes

I was referring to your existing panel.  When an automatic tx switch is installed, it becomes the service disconnect and the load center (aka "main panel") actually becomes a sub-panel.  As a result, the ground-to-neutral bond in the load center needs to be disconnected.  Your load center should then have a neutral bus and a separate ground bus that are wired over to the tx switch.  That short green wire will then be the only ground-to-neutral bond.

I don't see a ground coming from your load center, so I'm guessing you left the bond in place there.  A ground-to-neutral bond in a sub-panel is a NEC no-no.

[CV67PAT]

I was referring to your existing panel.  When an automatic tx switch is installed, it becomes the service disconnect and the load center (aka "main panel") actually becomes a sub-panel.  As a result, the ground-to-neutral bond in the load center needs to be disconnected.  Your load center should then have a neutral bus and a separate ground bus that are wired over to the tx switch.  That short green wire will then be the only ground-to-neutral bond.

I don't see a ground coming from your load center, so I'm guessing you left the bond in place there.  A ground-to-neutral bond in a sub-panel is a NEC no-no.

This is correct. The grounded conductor is for carring the imbalance of the load. The grounding conductor is for carrying ground faults.

[jgillmanjr]

The negligence is not in the failed equipment. It's in the act of improper installation.

And negligence on the lineman for not making sure service was disconnected to the circuit before starting work.

[linux203]

And negligence on the lineman for not making sure service was disconnected to the circuit before starting work.

And when a generator energizes a line after it's been checked?

Regardless, your statement is placing blame on the victim for someone else's stupidity.

[CV67PAT]

And negligence on the lineman for not making sure service was disconnected to the circuit before starting work.

This exemplifies your misunderstanding of the trade.
When working on "circuits" we physically disconnect the "load" side of the "circuit" from the "line" side of the circuit.
All of the the conductors on the "load" side of the "circuit" are then tested to ensure that they are de-energized.
The circuit is then "locked out and tagged out".
The "load" side of the circuit" is now safe to be worked on.

The problem occurs when a generator that is connected to the "load" side of the circuit. This is what is called "backfeeding." It is called that because the generator is supplying power in the reverse direction.

There is no way possible to locate one of these generators until it energizes the "load" side of the "circuit." And at that point, death or serious injury are the indicators that someone is negligently operating a stand-by generator.

[jgillmanjr]

And I'm saying disconnect the load side.

[CV67PAT]

The load side is disconnected from the line. That's always the de-energized side of the circuit that is being worked on. I suppose that the line crews could disconnect each individual load. But in a case where like today over 100,000 customers are without power, it would take a very long time to go to every house and pull their meters.

[jgillmanjr]

The load side is disconnected from the line. That's always the de-energized side of the circuit that is being worked on. I suppose that the line crews could disconnect each individual load. But in a case where like today over 100,000 customers are without power, it would take a very long time to go to every house and pull their meters.

Safety first, right?

[CV67PAT]

Safety first, right?

That's precisely why the provisions for how a standby generator shall be connected to the service conductors was included in NFPA-70. Any deviation from them is unsafe and grossly negligent. And thus, the discussion has come full circle right back to the person responsible for the lineman's death. The person that created the unsafe condition, the homeowner.

[jgillmanjr]

That's precisely why the provisions for how a standby generator shall be connected to the service conductors was included in NFPA-70. Any deviation from them is unsafe and grossly negligent. And thus, the discussion has come full circle right back to the person responsible for the lineman's death. The person that created the unsafe condition, the homeowner.

Funny how they restrict access to said standard.

[jgillmanjr]

I still ask again - why would you just trust the consumer/load/demand/whatever you want to call it side to be clean w/o confirming first, or ensuring that it won't be hot?

[TheQ]

I still ask again - why would you just trust the consumer/load/demand/whatever you want to call it side to be clean w/o confirming first, or ensuring that it won't be hot?

I suppose you could check the line is cold and start working on it. Right then some jackass energizes the line for whatever reason and.....ZAP

[gryphon]

Grounding straps?

[jgillmanjr]

Seems like it would make sense for the power company to use something like this (albeit for the appropriate voltage and amperage requirements). Then it seems like it would be easy to just go to the buildings on the circuit, pull the disconnect, lock it out, do work, and close the circuit when done with the work.

[CV67PAT]

Seems like it would make sense for the power company to use something like this (albeit for the appropriate voltage and amperage requirements). Then it seems like it would be easy to just go to the buildings on the circuit, pull the disconnect, lock it out, do work, and close the circuit when done with the work.

They do. The power comes in the top. The disconnect is opened. The power is still present on the top. The bottom is dead. The bottom is the side that is worked on. The bottom is then energized by a negligent homeowner, like one you are advocating for, and the dead side becomes energized. The way to prevent that is by not connecting a standby generator in a negligent manner like you are advocating for.

[CV67PAT]

Funny how they restrict access to said standard.

It is? Have you tried Google? Even I know how to do that.

[jgillmanjr]

It is? Have you tried Google? Even I know how to do that.

http://www.nfpa.org/codes-and-standards/free-access

As part of its commitment to enhancing public safety, NFPA makes its codes and standards available online to the public for free.

Free you say? Well that would make sense, given that many of these standards are incorporated by reference as law.

You will be asked to "sign-in" or create a profile to access the document in read-only format.

HAHAHAHAHAAHAH. No.

But hey, lets play the game. I found a login via bugmenot. Sign in worked even. But what do I see?

FREE ACCESS TO NFPA 70®: NATIONAL ELECTRICAL CODE® (NEC®) SOFTBOUND
Important NFPA safety information available on demand
Open NFPA 70®: National Electrical Code® (NEC®) Softbound.

The online version of this document is presented in RealRead.
This document is designed to be viewed online: there are no "print", "save", "cut and paste", or "search" options.
Required: a minimum Microsoft Internet Explorer 5.0 or Netscape 4.7 (for Mac, I.E. 5.0).
Cookies, JavaScript, and Java Applet downloads must be enabled.
Use the Table of Contents to navigate through the RealRead document. The Table of Contents Icon  is at the bottom of the page.
Visit NFPA's Online Catalog to purchase the fully-functional version of NFPA 70®: National Electrical Code® (NEC®) Softbound® and related products.
Return to the list of NFPA codes and standards to select another document.
If you experience any technical difficulties using this tool please submit a request for technical support.

Wait, what? I can't print, search, save, or cut and paste? A god damned java applet is required to read?

Heaven forbid someone actually works on making these standards, which are referenced by law, accessible with a minimum of encumbrance.

Outside of a legal standpoint, what the hell is the point of a standard if not easily accessible for no cost to the end user?

They do. The power comes in the top. The disconnect is opened. The power is still present on the top. The bottom is dead. The bottom is the side that is worked on. The bottom is then energized by a negligent homeowner, like one you are advocating for, and the dead side becomes energized. The way to prevent that is by not connecting a standby generator in a negligent manner like you are advocating for.

Clearly I need to break this down barney style. Here's a block diagram that should convey what I am saying:

[CV67PAT]

Here:
http://ebookee.org/National-Electrical-Code-NFPA-70-2011-Edition_1130552.html

[autosurgeon]

Hey Pat turned out that AC unit is an amps hog on start so we hooked it up to the load dump control on the transfer switch.