Author Topic: 1 person killed in Genoa Township road rage incident  (Read 6312 times)

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Offline linux203

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1 person killed in Genoa Township road rage incident
« on: September 02, 2014, 08:20:52 PM »
Police say a 43-year-old driver got out of his vehicle and approached the driver of a pickup truck, who is accused of shooting and killing the 43-year-old man.

http://www.clickondetroit.com/news/1-person-killed-in-howell-road-rage-incident/27841414

Not very many details, but definitely a story to follow.
When a strong man, fully armed, guards his own palace, his goods are in peace. Luke 11:21

Then He said to them, “But now, he who has a money bag, let him take it, and likewise a knapsack; and he who has no sword, let him sell his garment and buy one."  Luke 22:36

Offline part deux

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Re: 1 person killed in Genoa Township road rage incident
« Reply #1 on: September 02, 2014, 09:02:45 PM »
Based on the early reports, it's going to be hard rationalizing fearing for his life.

Offline CitizensHaveRights

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Re: 1 person killed in Genoa Township road rage incident
« Reply #2 on: September 03, 2014, 09:27:15 AM »
WXYZ has some details today, but not enough. I doubt the shootee approached the shooter to say good afternoon:
http://www.wxyz.com/news/43-year-old-killed-by-69-year-old-in-road-rage-incident-in-genoa-township

We're told a 69-year-old from Howell was driving in front of the victim on Grand River going eastbound in a black 2012 Dodge pickup truck, when both were stopped at a light. It was then, authorities say, that the 43-year-old got out of his 2014 Ford Escape and approached the 69-year-old driver.

The 69-year-old then shot and killed the 43-year-old at the scene, according to the sheriff's office.

They're implying that it was the conclusion of an ongoing car duel, but they don't come right out and say it. Car duels need two willing participants, if the Escape driver thought the pickup cut him off and then got out of the car when the truck stopped it might have only been one "road rager", the guy who got shot.
According to Undersheriff Murphy, the altercation between the two drivers started in Howell.  It is believed, at one point, the pick-up truck was behind the Escape and that the pick-up truck had passed the SUV during the incident.
"A well balanced breakfast being necessary to the start of a healthy day, the right of the people to keep and eat food shall not be infringed "  - Who has a right to keep and eat food, The People or A Well Balanced Breakfast?

Offline CitizensHaveRights

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Re: 1 person killed in Genoa Township road rage incident
« Reply #3 on: September 03, 2014, 09:50:29 AM »
Gee, anybody care to guess where Gannett stands on private firearms ownership?

http://www.hometownlife.com/story/news/2014/09/03/road-rage-genoa-township-ends-fatal-shooting-police-say/15007603/

The younger man’s wife was a passenger in the Escape and while she escaped physical harm, Murphy said the woman was devastated.

No passengers were believed to be in the pickup.

The gunman was being questioned.

Murphy asked that anyone who witnessed the alleged road rage or shooting call the Sheriff’s Department at 517-546-2440.

Lisa Roose-Church is a reporter for the Livingston Daily Press & Argus. Contact her at 517-552-2846 or lrchurch@gannett.com.
"A well balanced breakfast being necessary to the start of a healthy day, the right of the people to keep and eat food shall not be infringed "  - Who has a right to keep and eat food, The People or A Well Balanced Breakfast?

Offline gryphon

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Re: 1 person killed in Genoa Township road rage incident
« Reply #4 on: September 03, 2014, 11:04:30 AM »
The pickup truck behind may have been following too close which angered the car driver in front and then he acted stupidly.

Just the other day a couple of detectives were following a car too closely and the car repeatedly brake checked the detectives.  The car pulled over and the driver opened his door and pulled a gun on the cops.

http://www.mcall.com/news/breaking/mc-allentown-police-chiefs-son-arrested-20140830-story.html
http://www.wfmz.com/news/news-regional-lehighvalley/allentown-police-chiefs-son-arrested-after-allegedly-pointing-gun-at-detectives/27809500

Some people are idiots when they drive.


Offline gryphon

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Re: 1 person killed in Genoa Township road rage incident
« Reply #6 on: September 03, 2014, 01:43:05 PM »
part deux, I don't know if you clicked on any of my links above, but the driver in that story that pulled a gun on the two cops was a LEO as well!  He was a jail or prison guard.


Offline part deux

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Re: 1 person killed in Genoa Township road rage incident
« Reply #7 on: September 03, 2014, 03:48:49 PM »
part deux, I don't know if you clicked on any of my links above, but the driver in that story that pulled a gun on the two cops was a LEO as well!  He was a jail or prison guard.

I did, I was just pointing there are idiots on the road :)

Offline karudin

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Re: 1 person killed in Genoa Township road rage incident
« Reply #8 on: September 03, 2014, 07:12:17 PM »
Well it will be interesting to see how all this plays out. I live in Howell and I'm sure I'm going to get some disgusted looks now. For someone to get out of their vehicle and approach someone in front of them is just plain stupid and is obviously an aggressive act and so far no one has actually said what happened all they have said is what they heard.

Offline Super Trucker

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Re: 1 person killed in Genoa Township road rage incident
« Reply #9 on: September 04, 2014, 11:05:03 AM »
Hopefully the younger guy was being aggressive prior to being shot. 
Hopefully he wasn't just telling the other driver what a idiot he thought he was.

Offline CitizensHaveRights

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Re: 1 person killed in Genoa Township road rage incident
« Reply #10 on: September 04, 2014, 02:31:56 PM »
"A well balanced breakfast being necessary to the start of a healthy day, the right of the people to keep and eat food shall not be infringed "  - Who has a right to keep and eat food, The People or A Well Balanced Breakfast?

Offline gryphon

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Re: 1 person killed in Genoa Township road rage incident
« Reply #11 on: September 04, 2014, 03:28:17 PM »
"Mr. Flemming got out to ask the other driver to slow down."

Right.

Offline CitizensHaveRights

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Re: 1 person killed in Genoa Township road rage incident
« Reply #12 on: September 04, 2014, 03:42:23 PM »
If the other driver were driving so fast, how was Flemming right behind him at a stoplight so long after the other driver passed him?

If Flemming had started a fistfight, his wife would probably have been there telling everybody that she didn't know why she married that jackass.

However, now that he's dead, her story is going to be that he weren't doing nothing wrong before he died. Imaginative twist, getting a lawyer to deliver that message instead of doing it herself.

(none of this should be taken as excusing the defendant, but let's just say I don't feel deprived by the fact that I never got to meet the decedent and his wife)
"A well balanced breakfast being necessary to the start of a healthy day, the right of the people to keep and eat food shall not be infringed "  - Who has a right to keep and eat food, The People or A Well Balanced Breakfast?

Offline linux203

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Re: 1 person killed in Genoa Township road rage incident
« Reply #13 on: September 04, 2014, 06:40:40 PM »
So it looks like charges are open murder and discharging a firearm from a vehicle, plus use of a firearm in the commission of a felony on both counts.

Interesting that the intent of discharging a firearm from a vehicle was to add penalties to drive-by shootings.  But alas, intent and letter of the law are two different things.

Both have exceptions for self-defense, I'm guessing that will be the only viable defense to the charges.
When a strong man, fully armed, guards his own palace, his goods are in peace. Luke 11:21

Then He said to them, “But now, he who has a money bag, let him take it, and likewise a knapsack; and he who has no sword, let him sell his garment and buy one."  Luke 22:36

Offline TheQ

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Re: 1 person killed in Genoa Township road rage incident
« Reply #14 on: September 06, 2014, 12:02:33 PM »
He was in his car. His car was running. It was in drive. Driving away certainly could have been an option he could have evaluated.
I Am Not A Lawyer (nor a gunsmith).

Offline Super Trucker

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Re: 1 person killed in Genoa Township road rage incident
« Reply #15 on: September 06, 2014, 05:17:55 PM »
He was in his car. His car was running. It was in drive. Driving away certainly could have been an option he could have evaluated.
At that time of day on Grandriver at a red light?

Offline TheQ

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Re: 1 person killed in Genoa Township road rage incident
« Reply #16 on: September 06, 2014, 05:26:32 PM »

At that time of day on Grandriver at a red light?

It said it was an option to be evaluated. I didn't say it may have been the best choice, but it would be worth evaluating.
I Am Not A Lawyer (nor a gunsmith).

Offline CitizensHaveRights

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Re: 1 person killed in Genoa Township road rage incident
« Reply #17 on: September 06, 2014, 05:35:53 PM »
If (big if) he was first in line, he should have been able to make a right on red quickly enough to outrun a pedestrian (even forcing green light traffic to yield to him), and then park at the nearest cop shop (or donut emporium) when the Ford driver predictably started following him again. Alternately, he could have brandished before firing, but that's often a guarantee of criminal charges ("if you were in fear for your life, why didn't you shoot? If you weren't in fear for your life, why did you assault with a deadly?").
"A well balanced breakfast being necessary to the start of a healthy day, the right of the people to keep and eat food shall not be infringed "  - Who has a right to keep and eat food, The People or A Well Balanced Breakfast?

Offline linux203

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Re: 1 person killed in Genoa Township road rage incident
« Reply #18 on: September 06, 2014, 09:43:19 PM »
Quote from: MCL 750.233
Pointing or aiming firearm at another person; misdemeanor; penalty; exception; "peace officer defined."

Sec. 233.

(1) A person who intentionally but without malice points or aims a firearm at or toward another person is guilty of a misdemeanor punishable by imprisonment for not more than 93 days or a fine of not more than $500.00, or both.

(2) This section does not apply to a peace officer of this state or another state, or of a local unit of government of this state or another state, or of the United States, performing his or her duties as a peace officer. As used in this section, "peace officer" means that term as defined in section 215.

Quote from: MCL 750.234
Firearm; discharge; intentionally aimed without malice; misdemeanor; penalty; exception; "peace officer" defined.

Sec. 234.

(1) A person who discharges a firearm while it is intentionally but without malice aimed at or toward another person, without injuring another person, is guilty of a misdemeanor punishable by imprisonment for not more than 1 year or a fine of not more than $500.00, or both.

(2) This section does not apply to a peace officer of this state or another state, or of a local unit of government of this state or another state, or of the United States, performing his or her duties as a peace officer. As used in this section, "peace officer" means that term as defined in section 215.

No exception for self-defense.

Quote from: MCL 28.425b
(7) The concealed weapon licensing board shall issue a license to an applicant to carry a concealed pistol within the period required under this act after the applicant properly submits an application under subsection (1) and the concealed weapon licensing board determines that all of the following circumstances exist:
...
(h) The applicant has not been convicted of a misdemeanor violation of any of the following in the 8 years immediately preceding the date of application:
...
(xxxi) Section 233 of the Michigan penal code, 1931 PA 328, MCL 750.233 (intentionally aiming a firearm without malice).

(xxxii) Section 234 of the Michigan penal code, 1931 PA 328, MCL 750.234 (intentionally discharging a firearm aimed without malice).

Quote from: 28.428
(3) If the concealed weapon licensing board is notified by a law enforcement agency or prosecuting official that an individual licensed to carry a concealed pistol is charged with a felony or misdemeanor as defined in this act, the concealed weapon licensing board shall immediately suspend the individual's license until there is a final disposition of the charge for that offense and send notice of that suspension to the individual's last known address as indicated in the records of the concealed weapon licensing board. The notice shall inform the individual that he or she is entitled to a prompt hearing on the suspension, and the concealed weapon licensing board shall conduct a prompt hearing if requested in writing by the individual. The requirements of subsection (2) do not apply to this subsection.

That's a one way ticket to loosing your CPL.
When a strong man, fully armed, guards his own palace, his goods are in peace. Luke 11:21

Then He said to them, “But now, he who has a money bag, let him take it, and likewise a knapsack; and he who has no sword, let him sell his garment and buy one."  Luke 22:36

Offline jgillmanjr

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Re: 1 person killed in Genoa Township road rage incident
« Reply #19 on: September 06, 2014, 11:20:32 PM »
No exception for self-defense.

Something we are trying to change with HB5091
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