Author Topic: 1 person killed in Genoa Township road rage incident  (Read 6467 times)

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Offline linux203

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Re: 1 person killed in Genoa Township road rage incident
« Reply #20 on: September 07, 2014, 12:53:46 AM »
That will amend brandishing, not aimed without malice.
When a strong man, fully armed, guards his own palace, his goods are in peace. Luke 11:21

Then He said to them, “But now, he who has a money bag, let him take it, and likewise a knapsack; and he who has no sword, let him sell his garment and buy one."  Luke 22:36

Offline CitizensHaveRights

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Re: 1 person killed in Genoa Township road rage incident
« Reply #21 on: September 07, 2014, 09:21:27 AM »
The statute Linux quoted doesn't address brandishing without pointing/muzzling.
Are you technically in the clear if you present a firearm, pointed in a safe direction?
Somebody who wants to knock your block off because he doesn't like your driving style should get his butt back in his car seat if you merely present a handgun pointed away from him when he's a meter away from you. Of course, he'll also pick up his cell phone and report a man with a gun or an assault with a firearm.
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Offline CV67PAT

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Re: 1 person killed in Genoa Township road rage incident
« Reply #22 on: September 08, 2014, 12:32:58 AM »
Something we are trying to change with HB5091
And rightfully so.
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Offline jgillmanjr

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Re: 1 person killed in Genoa Township road rage incident
« Reply #23 on: September 08, 2014, 08:28:27 AM »
That will amend brandishing, not aimed without malice.

Looking at 750.233 again, I'm wondering why you would intentionally point a firearm at someone w/o malice.
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Offline linux203

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Re: 1 person killed in Genoa Township road rage incident
« Reply #24 on: September 08, 2014, 09:49:07 AM »
CitizensHaveRights eluded to drawing a firearm but not discharging it. To make the statement of "pointing a gun at someone in self defense" is akin to confessing to 750.233.
When a strong man, fully armed, guards his own palace, his goods are in peace. Luke 11:21

Then He said to them, “But now, he who has a money bag, let him take it, and likewise a knapsack; and he who has no sword, let him sell his garment and buy one."  Luke 22:36

Offline CitizensHaveRights

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Re: 1 person killed in Genoa Township road rage incident
« Reply #25 on: September 08, 2014, 09:58:48 AM »
"To make the statement of "pointing a gun at someone in self defense" is akin to confessing to 750.233. "

Yes, but what about displaying without pointing? If 750.233 doesn't prohibit it, does that mean it's legal?
"A well balanced breakfast being necessary to the start of a healthy day, the right of the people to keep and eat food shall not be infringed "  - Who has a right to keep and eat food, The People or A Well Balanced Breakfast?

Offline linux203

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Re: 1 person killed in Genoa Township road rage incident
« Reply #26 on: September 08, 2014, 05:55:34 PM »
"To make the statement of "pointing a gun at someone in self defense" is akin to confessing to 750.233. "

Yes, but what about displaying without pointing? If 750.233 doesn't prohibit it, does that mean it's legal?

That could be brandishing. MCL 750.234e.

That's what HB 5091 will change.
When a strong man, fully armed, guards his own palace, his goods are in peace. Luke 11:21

Then He said to them, “But now, he who has a money bag, let him take it, and likewise a knapsack; and he who has no sword, let him sell his garment and buy one."  Luke 22:36

Offline CitizensHaveRights

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Re: 1 person killed in Genoa Township road rage incident
« Reply #27 on: September 10, 2014, 01:47:30 PM »
Has anybody read a news report on this incident that's long on facts and short on emotions?
I'm still finding the opposite. One would hope that the prosecuting attorney had some serious facts on his side before he filed murder charges, but I'm beginning to doubt it.

http://www.myfoxdetroit.com/story/26489145/man-charged-with-murder-in-road-rage-killing-in-livingston-county
"A well balanced breakfast being necessary to the start of a healthy day, the right of the people to keep and eat food shall not be infringed "  - Who has a right to keep and eat food, The People or A Well Balanced Breakfast?

Offline CitizensHaveRights

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Re: 1 person killed in Genoa Township road rage incident
« Reply #28 on: September 11, 2014, 01:24:55 PM »
Defense attorney says it's self defense.

Wayne Peal of the Livingston Daily thinks that's his cue to 'open a discussion about Stand Your Ground', and seems to still believe the lie that George Zimmerman's self defense case was a SYG case. He implies that Senator Rick Jones (a former Eaton County Sheriff) is laboring under the same misconception about the Zimmerman case.
http://www.livingstondaily.com/story/news/crime/2014/09/11/stand-ground/15419291/
« Last Edit: September 11, 2014, 08:34:13 PM by CitizensHaveRights »
"A well balanced breakfast being necessary to the start of a healthy day, the right of the people to keep and eat food shall not be infringed "  - Who has a right to keep and eat food, The People or A Well Balanced Breakfast?

Offline linux203

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Re: 1 person killed in Genoa Township road rage incident
« Reply #29 on: September 11, 2014, 06:43:02 PM »
Castle Doctrine, not Stand Your Ground...

Quote from: MCL 780.951
(1) Except as provided in subsection (2), it is a rebuttable presumption in a civil or criminal case that an individual who uses deadly force or force other than deadly force under section 2 of the self-defense act has an honest and reasonable belief that imminent death of, sexual assault of, or great bodily harm to himself or herself or another individual will occur if both of the following apply:

(a) The individual against whom deadly force or force other than deadly force is used is in the process of breaking and entering a dwelling or business premises or committing home invasion or has broken and entered a dwelling or business premises or committed home invasion and is still present in the dwelling or business premises, or is unlawfully attempting to remove another individual from a dwelling, business premises, or occupied vehicle against his or her will.

(b) The individual using deadly force or force other than deadly force honestly and reasonably believes that the individual is engaging in conduct described in subdivision (a).

So, is the victim's fingerprints on the exterior door handle of the vehicle?
When a strong man, fully armed, guards his own palace, his goods are in peace. Luke 11:21

Then He said to them, “But now, he who has a money bag, let him take it, and likewise a knapsack; and he who has no sword, let him sell his garment and buy one."  Luke 22:36

Offline CitizensHaveRights

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Re: 1 person killed in Genoa Township road rage incident
« Reply #30 on: September 11, 2014, 08:35:58 PM »

So, is the victim's fingerprints on the exterior door handle of the vehicle?

I wonder if the techs who processed the 'crime scene' even cared.
"A well balanced breakfast being necessary to the start of a healthy day, the right of the people to keep and eat food shall not be infringed "  - Who has a right to keep and eat food, The People or A Well Balanced Breakfast?

Offline part deux

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Re: 1 person killed in Genoa Township road rage incident
« Reply #31 on: September 12, 2014, 11:10:57 AM »
I wonder if the techs who processed the 'crime scene' even cared.
Why would they?  He's guilty of committing murder.

Offline gryphon

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Re: 1 person killed in Genoa Township road rage incident
« Reply #32 on: September 12, 2014, 03:21:41 PM »
If the following would have happened in Michigan, the woman might have assumed room temperature by now.


Offline thamm

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Re: 1 person killed in Genoa Township road rage incident
« Reply #33 on: September 12, 2014, 03:34:53 PM »
If the following would have happened in Michigan, the woman might have assumed room temperature by now.


What a great example for the child in the front seat...

Offline CitizensHaveRights

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Re: 1 person killed in Genoa Township road rage incident
« Reply #34 on: September 12, 2014, 04:03:18 PM »
If you're going to use a smartphone's camera to document an incident, hold it sideways.

I don't see a need for deadly force there, but if you felt the need to put some distance between yourself and your attacker, the logical path would be right through her Honda if it didn't have a kid in it. 
Too bad she didn't leave the door open. That door would have looked great if folded against the front fender.

I hope he filed the battery complaint with the cops.
« Last Edit: September 12, 2014, 04:13:23 PM by CitizensHaveRights »
"A well balanced breakfast being necessary to the start of a healthy day, the right of the people to keep and eat food shall not be infringed "  - Who has a right to keep and eat food, The People or A Well Balanced Breakfast?

Offline gryphon

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Re: 1 person killed in Genoa Township road rage incident
« Reply #35 on: September 12, 2014, 05:54:23 PM »
The police are "looking into" the incident.  They were quick to point out that using a cell phone like this to video record while driving is against the law.

Offline protectio

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Re: 1 person killed in Genoa Township road rage incident
« Reply #36 on: October 04, 2014, 05:45:27 PM »
reply to CitizensHaveRights post about WXYZ holding back on propagating garbage journalism, hats off to WXYZ, they are the classiest station out there.  There are more facts to the Howell Road Rage Incident and WXYZ backed off the story and news hype quickly.  The shooter's attorney now has evidence and facts known that she believes the 69 year old Zale had the right to use self-defense.  There are a lot of folks that stand behind the defendant in this case for his good moral character.  This is also going to be a case to either keeping or modifying the Michigan Stand Your Ground Law.  The link to the law, the attorney's statement, and a soon to be released public statement from the Zale family can be found on the website MartinZaleDefenseFund.com.  As one reader pointed out, this is going to be an interesting case to follow for those interested in protected their right of self defense in Michigan. 

Offline TheQ

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Re: 1 person killed in Genoa Township road rage incident
« Reply #37 on: October 04, 2014, 08:31:58 PM »
reply to CitizensHaveRights post about WXYZ holding back on propagating garbage journalism, hats off to WXYZ, they are the classiest station out there.  There are more facts to the Howell Road Rage Incident and WXYZ backed off the story and news hype quickly.  The shooter's attorney now has evidence and facts known that she believes the 69 year old Zale had the right to use self-defense.  There are a lot of folks that stand behind the defendant in this case for his good moral character.  This is also going to be a case to either keeping or modifying the Michigan Stand Your Ground Law.  The link to the law, the attorney's statement, and a soon to be released public statement from the Zale family can be found on the website MartinZaleDefenseFund.com.  As one reader pointed out, this is going to be an interesting case to follow for those interested in protected their right of self defense in Michigan.

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Offline CitizensHaveRights

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Re: 1 person killed in Genoa Township road rage incident
« Reply #38 on: March 28, 2015, 10:10:32 AM »
Surprise, surprise.
Prosecution to present evidence the defendant is a violent jerk.
Defense to present evidence the alleged victim was a violent jerk.

Violent confrontations between strangers are often the result of two punks/jerks meeting each other.

Still can't find any news on an actual trial, so I assume it's been continued.

http://www.livingstondaily.com/story/news/crime/2015/02/27/zale-motions/24081261/
"A well balanced breakfast being necessary to the start of a healthy day, the right of the people to keep and eat food shall not be infringed "  - Who has a right to keep and eat food, The People or A Well Balanced Breakfast?

Offline CitizensHaveRights

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Re: 1 person killed in Genoa Township road rage incident
« Reply #39 on: May 07, 2015, 06:32:44 PM »
Trial finally underway, Zale's attorney claims in opening argument that situation was analogous to the Wilson/Brown homicide in Missouri where police found that Brown attacked Wilson in his car and he was forced to shoot Brown. Prosecution claims that, well, Zale's a jerk and people who know him say he's a dangerous driver, so that must make him a murderer.

At this point I'm starting to think that Zale was in a similar situation to Darren Wilson, who is indeed a jerk, but was most likely right in shooting Brown.

http://www.livingstondaily.com/story/news/crime/2015/05/05/zale-day/26923739/
"A well balanced breakfast being necessary to the start of a healthy day, the right of the people to keep and eat food shall not be infringed "  - Who has a right to keep and eat food, The People or A Well Balanced Breakfast?