Author Topic: SB 1028 - Parking Lots  (Read 9738 times)

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Offline jgillmanjr

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Re: SB 1028 - Parking Lots
« Reply #40 on: December 30, 2014, 01:50:16 PM »
Right, as the owner of the private property (my car), I do allow it.

And when your car is parked on private property where the owner won't, and they're willing to search vehicles entering..?
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Offline jfmi87

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Re: SB 1028 - Parking Lots
« Reply #41 on: December 30, 2014, 03:54:11 PM »
And when your car is parked on private property where the owner won't, and they're willing to search vehicles entering..?
The car is still my property, it doesn't make it my employer's. Where is MY property rights? I'm not asking to carry the gun inside. OK fine so let them have their property rights, are they willing to accept responsibility what happens to the employee or provide armed escort to and from work for every employee? This isn't a 9-5 place, people are coming and going at all hours of the night.

Offline linux203

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Re: SB 1028 - Parking Lots
« Reply #42 on: December 30, 2014, 05:41:56 PM »
The car is still my property, it doesn't make it my employer's. Where is MY property rights? I'm not asking to carry the gun inside. OK fine so let them have their property rights, are they willing to accept responsibility what happens to the employee or provide armed escort to and from work for every employee? This isn't a 9-5 place, people are coming and going at all hours of the night.

Correct, the car is still your property.  You are waiving your property rights as a condition of using their property.  The same applies to other property (Target, Starbucks, Chipotle, etc..)
that post signs or request firearms not be brought on the premises.  You waive your 2A right, just like people waive their 4A and 5A rights all the time.
When a strong man, fully armed, guards his own palace, his goods are in peace. Luke 11:21

Then He said to them, “But now, he who has a money bag, let him take it, and likewise a knapsack; and he who has no sword, let him sell his garment and buy one."  Luke 22:36

Offline jgillmanjr

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Re: SB 1028 - Parking Lots
« Reply #43 on: December 31, 2014, 07:34:39 AM »
The car is still my property, it doesn't make it my employer's.
But you are parking it on THEIR property, are you not?

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Where is MY property rights? I'm not asking to carry the gun inside.
Their property is their property. You park on it, you get to follow their rules. It doesn't matter if you're in their property (building) or on it (parking lot/other land).

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OK fine so let them have their property rights, are they willing to accept responsibility what happens to the employee or provide armed escort to and from work for every employee? This isn't a 9-5 place, people are coming and going at all hours of the night.
They can if they wish, but they don't have to.

If they don't, and you don't like that, find another job that doesn't regulate the possession of firearms on company property.
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Offline jgillmanjr

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Re: SB 1028 - Parking Lots
« Reply #44 on: December 31, 2014, 07:38:12 AM »
You waive your 2A right, just like people waive their 4A and 5A rights all the time.

Well, you have to remember that the Constitution merely restricts or enumerates certain abilities upon the government (well, that was the theory anyway before the various assclowns with robes decided to trash that concept), not private entities. So no real waving of rights within this context.
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Offline jfmi87

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Re: SB 1028 - Parking Lots
« Reply #45 on: January 01, 2015, 10:50:57 PM »
If they don't, and you don't like that, find another job that doesn't regulate the possession of firearms on company property.
Sounds real easy. Mine and just about every other prohibits to even keep it in the parking lot under the guise of "Workplace Violence Prevention Policy" which are as effective as those "No Guns" signs.

I concede this discussion. Private property rights are more important than your right to life. If you are invited or allowed on someone else's property for commerce or otherwise you have to keep your gun at home, should something happen to you to and from then tough $#|t I guess. Six feet down you go.
« Last Edit: January 01, 2015, 11:02:33 PM by jfmi87 »

Offline CitizensHaveRights

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Re: SB 1028 - Parking Lots
« Reply #46 on: January 02, 2015, 09:04:28 AM »
Well, you have to remember that the Constitution merely restricts or enumerates certain abilities upon the government (well, that was the theory anyway before the various assclowns with robes decided to trash that concept), not private entities. So no real waving of rights within this context.

The BoR is there to protect rights that you were born with from governmental interference.
It doesn't change the fact that you're still waiving your innate human rights. Just not waiving constitutional protection/enumeration of them because the Constitution doesn't mention protecting individual rights from individuals and non-governmental entities.
"A well balanced breakfast being necessary to the start of a healthy day, the right of the people to keep and eat food shall not be infringed "  - Who has a right to keep and eat food, The People or A Well Balanced Breakfast?

Offline Xpiatio

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Re: SB 1028 - Parking Lots
« Reply #47 on: January 03, 2015, 11:06:16 AM »
If something were to happen, you could always sue the property owner. 

Offline jfmi87

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Re: SB 1028 - Parking Lots
« Reply #48 on: January 03, 2015, 01:10:23 PM »
If something were to happen, you could always sue the property owner.
Maybe while on their property. You won't be in the parking lot for very long, what about the commute between there and home? An employer parking lot storage ban means leaving it home entirely.

Offline Xpiatio

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Re: SB 1028 - Parking Lots
« Reply #49 on: January 03, 2015, 04:06:59 PM »
Meaning if someone else comes on property causing danger and life threatening harm, you could sue the company

Offline gryphon

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Re: SB 1028 - Parking Lots
« Reply #50 on: January 05, 2015, 12:03:06 AM »
Correct, the car is still your property.  You are waiving your property rights as a condition of using their property.  The same applies to other property (Target, Starbucks, Chipotle, etc..) that post signs or request firearms not be brought on the premises.  You waive your 2A right, just like people waive their 4A and 5A rights all the time.

I don't understand propertarians who consider private property more sacred than individual rights.  You're not libertarians.  I can’t fathom those that think only the government can be a danger to our liberty.  Your house, your rules.  My house, my rules.  Public house, public rules.  Thomas Jefferson understood that any institution with the power to coerce must be regarded with suspicion.

As for employers, many employers probably have the same rules as mine: no weapons, period.  That doesn't mean just guns, that means bows in your trunk during hunting season, and things like tire irons, baseball bats, lead pipes, or anything in the cabin of your car that could be used as a weapon. Those are all offenses which could get you terminated.  I mention this now because just today I was reading a posted notice about  tire irons, baseball bats, lead pipes, or anything in the cabin of your car that could be used as a weapon.

Offline TheQ

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Re: SB 1028 - Parking Lots
« Reply #51 on: January 05, 2015, 12:44:41 AM »
And this is why we choose neutral on these bills. As even gun owners in good conscious disagree.
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Offline Ezerharden

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Re: SB 1028 - Parking Lots
« Reply #52 on: January 05, 2015, 03:41:19 AM »
What needs to happen is a balance being struck between assumed private property rights (read stores that are open to the general public), employer private property rights, and individual rights. Sadly the solution will be... (insert crickets here).

Your HOME is private property, any property you own that is not open to the public is private property. A store you open and invite the public into is NOT private property, it is a public venue. Imagine a store owner being sued for not allowing someone in who is wearing a political shirt, like "XXXXXX sucks" As to employers banning guns, the easiest solution is not to have legislation that allows it, but to have legislation that prevents employers from searching your private property, your car, unless there is sufficient cause to believe a LAW has been broken (not a company policy) and they obtain a warrrant through the local LEO's.
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Offline jgillmanjr

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Re: SB 1028 - Parking Lots
« Reply #53 on: January 05, 2015, 08:00:39 AM »
Sounds real easy. Mine and just about every other prohibits to even keep it in the parking lot under the guise of "Workplace Violence Prevention Policy" which are as effective as those "No Guns" signs.
I didn't say anything about being easy. Many things in life are not.

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I concede this discussion. Private property rights are more important than your right to life.
The irony of this statement abounds.

You see, by your proposition of the parking lot bills, you argue that the owners of the various properties be subjugated to the will of others.

Essentially you're supporting a position which says "You WILL allow X, Y, and Z on your property, and WE WILL use the threat of a gun to enforce compliance.

Right to life indeed...
[/quote]
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Offline jgillmanjr

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Re: SB 1028 - Parking Lots
« Reply #54 on: January 05, 2015, 08:15:03 AM »
I don't understand propertarians who consider private property more sacred than individual rights.


Quote
You're not libertarians.  I can’t fathom those that think only the government can be a danger to our liberty. Your house, your rules.  My house, my rules.  Public house, public rules.  Thomas Jefferson understood that any institution with the power to coerce must be regarded with suspicion.
Just like with what jfmi87 posted, the irony flows freely like the spice on Arrakis.

Cries for telling property owners what they must allow to be enforced by the barrel of a government gun. Outstanding.

Quote
As for employers, many employers probably have the same rules as mine: no weapons, period.  That doesn't mean just guns, that means bows in your trunk during hunting season, and things like tire irons, baseball bats, lead pipes, or anything in the cabin of your car that could be used as a weapon. Those are all offenses which could get you terminated.  I mention this now because just today I was reading a posted notice about  tire irons, baseball bats, lead pipes, or anything in the cabin of your car that could be used as a weapon.

You're a smart guy. I have a feeling that if this bothered you, you could start your own business, and subsequently make your own rules.
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Offline CV67PAT

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Re: SB 1028 - Parking Lots
« Reply #55 on: January 05, 2015, 03:46:25 PM »
I agree that private property rights are individual rights of the people. Businesses are not people. They are "persons".
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Offline linux203

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Re: SB 1028 - Parking Lots
« Reply #56 on: January 05, 2015, 08:30:59 PM »

I agree that private property rights are individual rights of the people. Businesses are not people. They are "persons".

Home-based businesses, excluding day cares for obvious reasons.

How do you draw the line?  How do you draft a piece of legislation?
When a strong man, fully armed, guards his own palace, his goods are in peace. Luke 11:21

Then He said to them, “But now, he who has a money bag, let him take it, and likewise a knapsack; and he who has no sword, let him sell his garment and buy one."  Luke 22:36

Offline gryphon

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Re: SB 1028 - Parking Lots
« Reply #57 on: January 05, 2015, 09:06:11 PM »
SB 1028 is a start.

Offline TheQ

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Re: SB 1028 - Parking Lots
« Reply #58 on: January 06, 2015, 01:32:49 AM »

SB 1028 is a start.

Newsflash: SB 1028 is dead.
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Offline part deux

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Re: SB 1028 - Parking Lots
« Reply #59 on: January 06, 2015, 11:59:54 AM »
Home-based businesses, excluding day cares for obvious reasons.

How do you draw the line?  How do you draft a piece of legislation?
Other states have fixed this :)

Arguing the absurd, planes fly over the property, should they be weapon free too?

My vehicle is a {almost} floating island of private property.