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Author Topic: Greetings From Detroit  (Read 12291 times)

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Offline LanPow

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Greetings From Detroit
« on: September 23, 2014, 05:38:58 AM »
Greeting all --

I have owned a firearm for 5-6 years now.  This far I have only been comfortable Open Carrying in or around the outside of my home so I have been carrying concealed until recently.  I am looking to learn the laws of open carrying so that I can venture out without fear for being wrongfully remanded and being able to defending my rights if I am!

Thanks for the resource!
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Offline CitizensHaveRights

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Re: Greetings From Detroit
« Reply #1 on: September 23, 2014, 07:47:48 AM »
Welcome from Charlotte.

In parts of Kent County and the SE corner of the state, knowing and obeying the law isn't an absolute defense against being handcuffed, but the situation is improving.

https://forums.miopencarry.org/index.php/topic,4504.0.html

There's still some dispute over whether Woody's Glock was legally visible, but here's a recent incident from Detroit, where an experienced OCer was jailed because police claim his sweater, tucked behind his gun, folded over the top of the gun. I'm suspicious of the claims that police searched Woody and his friends for 'a strong odor of marijuana', but no drug charges resulted. 'I think I smell something, so I don't need a warrant to search' is obviously something that could be used to cover up illegal police conduct.

http://www.freep.com/story/news/local/michigan/wayne/2014/09/21/gun-rights-advocates-march-detroit-protest-arrest/16023029/
http://www.mlive.com/news/detroit/index.ssf/2014/09/detroit_gun_arrest_prompts_unu.html
http://www.mlive.com/news/detroit/index.ssf/2014/09/gun-toting_open-carry_activist.html
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"A well balanced breakfast being necessary to the start of a healthy day, the right of the people to keep and eat food shall not be infringed "  - Who has a right to keep and eat food, The People or A Well Balanced Breakfast?

Offline SD40VE

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Re: Greetings From Detroit
« Reply #2 on: September 23, 2014, 08:16:02 AM »
Quote from: LanPow on September 23, 2014, 05:38:58 AM
Greeting all --

I have owned a firearm for 5-6 years now.  This far I have only been comfortable Open Carrying in or around the outside of my home so I have been carrying concealed until recently.  I am looking to learn the laws of open carrying so that I can venture out without fear for being wrongfully remanded and being able to defending my rights if I am!

Thanks for the resource!

welcome i am from north macomb county, if you want to meet up and OC in public at a bigby or some kind of eatery i am willing to help you achieve a level comfort with public OC. sometimes its easier to go along with someone who has been OC for a while when starting out. just let me know! im willing to help!
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Offline thamm

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Re: Greetings From Detroit
« Reply #3 on: September 23, 2014, 08:37:56 AM »
Welcome from Downriver!
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Offline part deux

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Re: Greetings From Detroit
« Reply #4 on: September 23, 2014, 09:32:56 AM »
Welcome!

Do you have a CPL?
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Offline Ezerharden

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Re: Greetings From Detroit
« Reply #5 on: September 23, 2014, 12:51:03 PM »
Welcome from Erie.
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Offline LanPow

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Re: Greetings From Detroit
« Reply #6 on: September 23, 2014, 01:26:57 PM »
Quote from: SD40VE on September 23, 2014, 08:16:02 AM
welcome i am from north macomb county, if you want to meet up and OC in public at a bigby or some kind of eatery i am willing to help you achieve a level comfort with public OC. sometimes its easier to go along with someone who has been OC for a while when starting out. just let me know! im willing to help!

More than willing to meet up, Is there a regular gathering?
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Offline LanPow

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Re: Greetings From Detroit
« Reply #7 on: September 23, 2014, 02:11:57 PM »
Quote from: part deux on September 23, 2014, 09:32:56 AM
Welcome!

Do you have a CPL?

My CPL was recently suspended because I was pulled over (I believe profiled) in Berkley and my driving licence was suspended for a speeding ticket in Southfield that mistakenly went unpaid. I was told that because I was not pulled over for a moving violation that my CPL wouldn't be affected but I take it the gun board didn't agree. I've sent a letter to the gun board requesting a hearing and I'm awaiting a reply.
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Offline part deux

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Re: Greetings From Detroit
« Reply #8 on: September 23, 2014, 03:12:17 PM »
Just be aware that OC without a CPL has some challenges.  There's some interesting and concerning hooks for the uninformed.

You really should consider getting an attorney, specifically a 2A attorney, to deal with Gun Board.  Jim Makowski isn't cheap, but it's been reported he's good.
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Offline LanPow

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Re: Greetings From Detroit
« Reply #9 on: September 23, 2014, 03:49:22 PM »
Quote from: part deux on September 23, 2014, 03:12:17 PM
Just be aware that OC without a CPL has some challenges.  There's some interesting and concerning hooks for the uninformed.

You really should consider getting an attorney, specifically a 2A attorney, to deal with Gun Board.  Jim Makowski isn't cheap, but it's been reported he's good.

Interesting you bring that up I was just looking at the Carry Chart I found here in the forum! Any other resources would be appreciated.

What kind of classification is A2 for an attorney and (Round about)what's Not cheap for this type of attorney?
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Offline CitizensHaveRights

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Re: Greetings From Detroit
« Reply #10 on: September 23, 2014, 04:23:56 PM »
2A attorney = Second Amendment is one of his specialties.
(if your attorney doesn't already know MUCH more about Michigan gun law than you do, why hire him to learn at your expense?)
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"A well balanced breakfast being necessary to the start of a healthy day, the right of the people to keep and eat food shall not be infringed "  - Who has a right to keep and eat food, The People or A Well Balanced Breakfast?

Offline LanPow

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Re: Greetings From Detroit
« Reply #11 on: September 23, 2014, 04:38:26 PM »
Quote from: CitizensHaveRights on September 23, 2014, 04:23:56 PM
2A attorney = Second Amendment is one of his specialties.
(if your attorney doesn't already know MUCH more about Michigan gun law than you do, why hire him to learn at your expense?)

Sounds like a bad idea to go before the board without an attorney.
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Offline linux203

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Re: Greetings From Detroit
« Reply #12 on: September 23, 2014, 06:17:13 PM »
Welcome from Delhi Township

As for the legal basis of CPL suspension...  If this is your second driving on a suspended, it's revocation.  If it's your first driving while suspended, plus the speeding ticket, plus one other civil infraction, it's suspension.  Another avenue would be to have the original infractions removed from your record, if possible.  Contact a lawyer.

Quote from: MCL 28.428
(1) The concealed weapon licensing board that issued a license to an individual to carry a concealed pistol may revoke that license if the board determines that the individual committed any violation of this act other than a violation of section 5f(4). If the board determines that the individual has been found responsible for 3 or more state civil infraction violations of this act during the license period, the board shall conduct a hearing and may suspend the individual's license for not more than 1 year.

...

(4) The concealed weapon licensing board that issued a license to an individual to carry a concealed pistol shall revoke that license if the board determines that the individual is not eligible under this act to receive a license to carry a concealed pistol. The concealed weapon licensing board shall immediately send notice of the fact of and the reason for the revocation under this subsection by first-class mail to the individual's last known address as indicated on the records of the concealed weapon licensing board. The requirements of subsection (2) do not apply to this subsection.

Quote from: MCL 28.425b
(h) The applicant has not been convicted of a misdemeanor violation of any of the following in the 8 years immediately preceding the date of application:

(v) Section 904(1) of the Michigan vehicle code, 1949 PA 300, MCL 257.904 (operating while license suspended or revoked), punishable as a second or subsequent offense.
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When a strong man, fully armed, guards his own palace, his goods are in peace. Luke 11:21

Then He said to them, “But now, he who has a money bag, let him take it, and likewise a knapsack; and he who has no sword, let him sell his garment and buy one."  Luke 22:36

Offline CitizensHaveRights

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Re: Greetings From Detroit
« Reply #13 on: September 23, 2014, 07:14:22 PM »
Quote from: LanPow on September 23, 2014, 04:38:26 PM
Sounds like a bad idea to go before the board without an attorney.

I wasn't suggesting you go pro se, just that your attorney be qualified in firearms law.

This list might be helpful:
http://miopencarry.org/?q=attorneys
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"A well balanced breakfast being necessary to the start of a healthy day, the right of the people to keep and eat food shall not be infringed "  - Who has a right to keep and eat food, The People or A Well Balanced Breakfast?

Offline part deux

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Re: Greetings From Detroit
« Reply #14 on: September 23, 2014, 07:15:28 PM »
You'll have to contact an attorney to get their cost, but I strongly recommend you take a firearms savvy attorney with you to the gun board.  Jim Makowski is one, Melissa Pearce is another.
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Offline CitizensHaveRights

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Re: Greetings From Detroit
« Reply #15 on: September 23, 2014, 07:49:22 PM »
I assume we're talking about one of the gun boards which approaches every situation from the perspective of 'how can we deny this permit?'.
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"A well balanced breakfast being necessary to the start of a healthy day, the right of the people to keep and eat food shall not be infringed "  - Who has a right to keep and eat food, The People or A Well Balanced Breakfast?

Offline TheQ

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Re: Greetings From Detroit
« Reply #16 on: September 23, 2014, 09:36:58 PM »

Quote from: LanPow on September 23, 2014, 01:26:57 PM
More than willing to meet up, Is there a regular gathering?

There are no regular gathering time and places, but if you sign up for our email list you will be more likely to be informed about our gatherings in your area.

http://miopencarry.org/updates

Welcome!
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I Am Not A Lawyer (nor a gunsmith).

Offline gryphon

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Re: Greetings From Detroit
« Reply #17 on: September 23, 2014, 10:00:04 PM »
Welcome from Okemos. :)
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Offline SD40VE

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Re: Greetings From Detroit
« Reply #18 on: September 25, 2014, 12:58:06 PM »
i will probably be getting with pat dunbar to see about setting up a dinner or lunch sometime soon in macomb county
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