Transporting Pistol

[linux203]

And it is kind of confusing because there it describes a pistol, but otherwise it's just stated as a firearm?
but here at the beginning it defines firearm as:

In Michigan, a pistol is a firearm.  A firearm is not necessarily a pistol.  Statues (typically) address one of three groups: Pistols, Firearms including pistols, and Firearms excluding pistols.

Neither of those statues describe a pistol.  They specifically exclude a pistol.  "other than a pistol" means any firearm but a pistol. 

Pistols are handled under the two statutes below.

(2) A person shall not carry a pistol concealed on or about his or her person, or, whether concealed or otherwise, in a vehicle operated or occupied by the person, except in his or her dwelling house, place of business, or on other land possessed by the person, without a license to carry the pistol as provided by law and if licensed, shall not carry the pistol in a place or manner inconsistent with any restrictions upon such license.

(1) Subsection (2) of section 227 does not apply to any of the following:
(a) To a person holding a valid license to carry a pistol concealed upon his or her person issued by his or her state of residence except where the pistol is carried in nonconformance with a restriction appearing on the license.
...
(d) To a person while transporting a pistol for a lawful purpose that is licensed by the owner or occupant of the motor vehicle in compliance with section 2 of 1927 PA 372, MCL 28.422, and the pistol is unloaded in a closed case designed for the storage of firearms in the trunk of the vehicle.

(e) To a person while transporting a pistol for a lawful purpose that is licensed by the owner or occupant of the motor vehicle in compliance with section 2 of 1927 PA 372, MCL 28.422, and the pistol is unloaded in a closed case designed for the storage of firearms in a vehicle that does not have a trunk and is not readily accessible to the occupants of the vehicle.

[part deux]

A removable magazine is not a firearm

A fixed magazine is a component of a firearm and must be emptied.  Lever action rifle is probably the easiest to understand.

[welshj]

That was kind of my point-
It was under a "hunting" section, but it was referring specifically to transporting while NOT in posession of a hunting license.
Which would pretty much mean any other time you're transporting a firearm.

I understand the definition of a firearm, but nowhere does that expressly state pistol in that section.
Then the other section refers to pistols=


Quote from: MCL 750.227

(2) A person shall not carry a pistol concealed on or about his or her person, or, whether concealed or otherwise, in a vehicle operated or occupied by the person, except in his or her dwelling house, place of business, or on other land possessed by the person, without a license to carry the pistol as provided by law and if licensed, shall not carry the pistol in a place or manner inconsistent with any restrictions upon such license.





Quote from: MCL 720.231a

(1) Subsection (2) of section 227 does not apply to any of the following:
(a) To a person holding a valid license to carry a pistol concealed upon his or her person issued by his or her state of residence except where the pistol is carried in nonconformance with a restriction appearing on the license.
...
(d) To a person while transporting a pistol for a lawful purpose that is licensed by the owner or occupant of the motor vehicle in compliance with section 2 of 1927 PA 372, MCL 28.422, and the pistol is unloaded in a closed case designed for the storage of firearms in the trunk of the vehicle.

(e) To a person while transporting a pistol for a lawful purpose that is licensed by the owner or occupant of the motor vehicle in compliance with section 2 of 1927 PA 372, MCL 28.422, and the pistol is unloaded in a closed case designed for the storage of firearms in a vehicle that does not have a trunk and is not readily accessible to the occupants of the vehicle.


Understood and agreed.
But why then two seperate distinctions? If a pistol is also a firearm- then yes maybe that portion of the law should be changed.

Because even though it does refer to hunting, it also refers to while not hunting.
why?

it seems to me that there needs to be a distinction.

But, to me- in as far as the intent of the op's question, unloaded in barrel and magazine, i take it to mean cleared, empty, free of ammunition. I know and understand that a seperate magazine is not considered a firearm. However, it is a part of the firearm.
seperate, or integral... either way it's part of the gun. it feeds the ammunition and the pistol or firearm cannot operate without it.

and understanding the recent attitudes towards police, gun control, and the governmental attempts at gun control....

My question is why not empty the magazines?
Without a CHL,  carrying a loaded weapon is not legal.
Carry in a case, or being broken down, or seperate compartments.... legal methods... complicate quick use, or employment of the weapon in a vehicle. So if I can't quickly get my gun? why worry about not having bullets in the magazine?

I see it as a common sense thing.

[LD]

welshj  Would you expect to get arrested for carrying a loaded magazine and no gun?

If the magazine is not in the gun, and the chamber is empty, the gun can't fire.
That satisfies the law.
Why complicate it? Why try to convince people to disassemble their guns & transport them in separate vehicles on different days?

[welshj]

No i would not expect to...
Generally, I wouldnt carry a magazine without having a gun.
But, I also wouldnt carry a crack pipe either. What sense would that make?

While carrying a gun, i carry it loaded and ready to fire. I also carry extra magazines and ammo.
Normally, when I'm going to michigan, Im going shooting and would have anywhere from 9-12 guns in my vehicle and several thousand rounds of ammo.

There is a difference, as I am concealed carry licensed.

Even so however, when I do it- every firearm save my EDC is cleared, cased, and locked.
All ammunition save my EDC rounds are in a locked ammo box and every magazine and tube is clear and empty.
(I own a few lever actions and shotguns that have tube fed actions)
 
The original question was about transporting in the open carry situation without a CHL/CPL.
From my research and understanding I tried to help.

I'm all for discussion. I'm all for 2A freedoms and rights.
I'm all about loving my guns and shooting.

But I am also about doing the right thing, and the common sense thing.

The last time I was stopped by a police officer, at night...
He approached my vehicle to find my inner dome light on.
My vehicle off with the keys on the dashboard.
And both hands on the steering wheel in plain sight.
And me stating that I'm licensed to concealed carry and am armed.

If i'm doing nothing wrong, have nothing to hide...
why act like I am?
Why have ammo in a magazine for a gun thats locked in a case and in my trunk?
convienance? (splg?)

Do right, look right.
I will not comment further on this topic.

Original Poster-
good luck with your firearms and i wish you well.
At this point, to clarify things and make them easier- I'd suggest to get a concealed carry license.
Then you dont have to have a case, a lock, or seperate anything from anything to carry your pistol legally in your vehicle.

[TheQ]

Ultimately, the words of the law are for each of us to interpret. We all have to take the risk that we are comfortable with. We do our fellow man the most justice by referring them to the statute and letting them read and interpret it themselves.