Author Topic: Michigan Senate to move quickly on revised concealed gun bill after Snyder veto  (Read 11691 times)

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Offline TheQ

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$10 increase impacts everybody...

However, avoided long lines for renewal in Wayne county is worth it.  Avoiding gun board in Macomb county will be worth to those residents.

Everybody will benefit from not needing to get a separate photograph.

In 2006 I got a passport. I took the photo myself. It cost about $1 to make.

My original CPL came from Ingham County -- took 3 weeks. My renewal (which I applied for 5.5 months in advance) took 6 weeks.


HOW WILL PEOPLE LIKE ME BENEFIT FROM THIS BILL?!?!
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Offline part deux

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There are people outside of Oakland/Macomb/Wayne county?

Offline Ezerharden

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In 2006 I got a passport. I took the photo myself. It cost about $1 to make.

My original CPL came from Ingham County -- took 3 weeks. My renewal (which I applied for 5.5 months in advance) took 6 weeks.


HOW WILL PEOPLE LIKE ME BENEFIT FROM THIS BILL?!?!

Prior to "shall issue" I got my CPL in Monroe County, unrestricted. Here comes "shall issue with it's many restrictions that I currently didn't suffer from. Now if I used your logic, I should have opposed the "shall issue" law because it didn't benefit me, and actually in the end hurt me. I could get my CPL in my county, so what did I care that others couldn't in other counties? Problem is I did care. I supported the "shall issue" law because I knew it would benefit more people in this state. But then I don't base my support of something solely on how it affects me personally, but rather what is best for the greatest number of people. But hey, that's just me, and I am obviously insane for not thinking of only me.

On another note, I am glad that Ingham County is on the ball, however there are 82 other counties that may not be.
« Last Edit: February 05, 2015, 12:32:36 AM by Ezerharden »
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Offline gryphon

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Ezerharden, I agree with you.  This bill might actually cause me more grief (yet to be determined), but I see it as a win for most other people.  Heck, it gets rid of gun boards which we should have never had.

Offline Super Trucker

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$10 increase impacts everybody...

However, avoided long lines for renewal in Wayne county is worth it.  Avoiding gun board in Macomb county will be worth to those residents.

Everybody will benefit from not needing to get a separate photograph.
I am in wayne county, last year my renewal took about 6 weeks. I took my own photo with me which cost very little, the line at the Henery Ruff office was 4 people.

Offline Super Trucker

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Prior to "shall issue" I got my CPL in Monroe County, unrestricted. Here comes "shall issue with it's many restrictions that I currently didn't suffer from. Now if I used your logic, I should have opposed the "shall issue" law because it didn't benefit me, and actually in the end hurt me. I could get my CPL in my county, so what did I care that others couldn't in other counties? Problem is I did care. I supported the "shall issue" law because I knew it would benefit more people in this state. But then I don't base my support of something solely on how it affects me personally, but rather what is best for the greatest number of people. But hey, that's just me, and I am obviously insane for not thinking of only me.

On another note, I am glad that Ingham County is on the ball, however there are 82 other counties that may not be.
You were for doing away with MI pistols for the benefit of the greater population.  How did that work out?
A few weeks after you got what you wanted they changed the permit process so the bills killing the MI pistols did nobody any good yet screwed many.
Just an example of how your thinking of others REALLY works.

Offline Super Trucker

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Ezerharden, I agree with you.  This bill might actually cause me more grief (yet to be determined), but I see it as a win for most other people.  Heck, it gets rid of gun boards which we should have never had.
Many counties the problem is the clerk not the board. I think 3 counties have real problematic gun boards. Not even close to a majority,  why not fix the problem rather than causing new problems?

Offline TheQ

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It's hopefully easy to see why we opted to remain neutral as an organization. "Michigan Open Carry supports CPL Fee increase" plays REAL well in social media.

SB 59 taught us a lesson: don't support bills that have anti-gun components. Many of you can be thanked for teaching us that lesson.
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Offline LD

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It's hopefully easy to see why we opted to remain neutral as an organization. "Michigan Open Carry supports CPL Fee increase" plays REAL well in social media.

SB 59 taught us a lesson: don't support bills that have anti-gun components. Many of you can be thanked for teaching us that lesson.

The problem seems to be that we have to give up 4 or 5 things to get 1 small gain.

I'll say it again, try sending a bill with just ONE issue to the governor & see what happens.

Today, eliminate gun boards & have SoS issue CPL's.
Tomorrow, eliminate PFZ's
Next day,  eliminate duty to inform.

Etc. etc......

Offline TheQ

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I don't like the format of one, 100+ page bill. You have no idea how many drafts there are to read and tracking the differences between drafts is nearly impossible. Should we just "trust" the staffer and Legislative Services giving us the bill? I think not!
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Offline LD

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I don't like the format of one, 100+ page bill. You have no idea how many drafts there are to read and tracking the differences between drafts is nearly impossible. Should we just "trust" the staffer and Legislative Services giving us the bill? I think not!

Why would it take 100 pages to eliminate gun boards & have SoS issue CPL's?
Don't do ANYTHING else in that bill.

Anything else you want done, have it in a different bill.

Want to raise the fee's? Write a bill.
Make punishment for not informing quickly enough mandatory & harsher? Write a bill.
Want to make training cert's no good after 1 yr? Write a bill.

Shouldn't take 100 pages to only make one change at a time.

Offline TheQ

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Why would it take 100 pages to eliminate gun boards & have SoS issue CPL's?
Don't do ANYTHING else in that bill.

Anything else you want done, have it in a different bill.

Want to raise the fee's? Write a bill.
Make punishment for not informing quickly enough mandatory & harsher? Write a bill.
Want to make training cert's no good after 1 yr? Write a bill.

Shouldn't take 100 pages to only make one change at a time.

The word "Gun Board" exists in multiple sections. It needs to be struck out and replace with "licensing authority".

To do this, you either need one big bill or two dozen smaller bills (one for each section).
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Offline LD

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The word "Gun Board" exists in multiple sections. It needs to be struck out and replace with "licensing authority".

To do this, you either need one big bill or two dozen smaller bills (one for each section).

So..... It takes less pages to change 37 things at once? Well I will admit it makes it easier to cover up what you are doing.

Offline Ezerharden

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You were for doing away with MI pistols for the benefit of the greater population.  How did that work out?
A few weeks after you got what you wanted they changed the permit process so the bills killing the MI pistols did nobody any good yet screwed many.
Just an example of how your thinking of others REALLY works.

Well I can say what I supported was with the best of intentions for all, and not some self centered desire to keep the status quo that some enjoyed. (translation,  I looked at the overall good that was presented, not at how it affected me personally)
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Offline Super Trucker

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Well I can say what I supported was with the best of intentions for all, and not some self centered desire to keep the status quo that some enjoyed. (translation,  I looked at the overall good that was presented, not at how it affected me personally)
You mean the staus quo that all CPL holders enjoyed but few used?

BTW: If more than 1 person used it, it could not be self centered.

Offline Ezerharden

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You mean the staus quo that all CPL holders enjoyed but few used?

BTW: If more than 1 person used it, it could not be self centered.

Yes, you are right of course. I can get my CPl renewed in about 2 months in my county with the gun board not playing dirty, so why do I care if this bill helps others in counties that have less integrity? Maybe because it does help those other people in those counties.

As to the MI pistol thing, sorry you lost your technicality, but it is really of no relevance here. This bill is about making MI a true Shall Issue state, as it should have been done back in 2001.

"Gee, my certificate expires after 5 years." Well damn, if I am going to take the class I am not going to wait 5 years to file for one. Plus a one year grace period to renew, as opposed to a 0 day grace period now.

They raised the fees by $10. If you can afford the gun, the class costs, the continual training, etc, then you can afford the $10 increase, especially when you don't have to pay $5-$10 for the photo someplace else and still run the risk of it being rejected. With them taking the photo's that is on them, not you. P.S. if the $10 is that much of a burden, just don't get your Starbuck's coffee for 3 days that year, no problem, there is your $10.

People need to realize that the Legislature is NOT Burger King, It's not always "Your way" all the time. These things take time and effort on many peoples parts to pull together and get passed. Instead of only complaining about what you think is bad, look at the good as well. Sorry to say, but you will never get everything you want (hint, Constitutional Carry) over night. There are many years of fighting to go to get there.



« Last Edit: February 11, 2015, 04:06:20 AM by Ezerharden »
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Offline TheQ

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Where does one draw the line though, Ezerharden?

The BoD (those of us left) carefully deliberated this issue and elected not to support a bill that is gradually (session by session, 59, 789) anti-gun. If we agree to support the bill, it'll only signal to the Governor we are willing to "give" even more yet. Well, we are willing to give no more.
I Am Not A Lawyer (nor a gunsmith).

Offline Super Trucker

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Ezerharden
The reason i btought up the mi pistol thing was to politely say you were wrong then as you are now(ie: sit down quietly before you cause more burdon for more people). 2 counties have a problematic gun boards, lets just go ahead and f@@@ it up for everybody rather then getting it away from the clerks all together.
If it passes I really jope that the first person that gets in trouble with the new inform penalties, that you are right there with thousands of dollars for the attorney fees. I mean you are all for making it better right?

Offline Ezerharden

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Where does one draw the line though, Ezerharden?

The BoD (those of us left) carefully deliberated this issue and elected not to support a bill that is gradually (session by session, 59, 789) anti-gun. If we agree to support the bill, it'll only signal to the Governor we are willing to "give" even more yet. Well, we are willing to give no more.

Well first off, I don't see anything "anti-gun" here, unlike SB59 which had anti-gun language. A secondly, I am not commenting whether or not MOC should support the bill or not. I am commenting on my views on the bill as an individual,
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Offline TheQ

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Well first off, I don't see anything "anti-gun" here, unlike SB59 which had anti-gun language. A secondly, I am not commenting whether or not MOC should support the bill or not. I am commenting on my views on the bill as an individual,

$10 fee increase isn't anti-gun?

Making a formerly discretionary penalty now mandatory isn't anti-gun?
I Am Not A Lawyer (nor a gunsmith).